Also, when we are advised to get extensive plastic surgery - proving our point. Literally have to physically alter your face through an expensive medical operation just to be on the same level as your female looksmatch.
Considering you said "creature", I was expecting you to link to this (which is creepy in a different way). But yeah what the hell is wrong with those doctors?
It's true. Since women have become increasingly open about who they are and how they feel about men, the game has changed.
You can't extend your personality so by all accounts if it's not already seven inches and thick you might as well not have been born. Men with good personalities don't have this problem. They get all the "love" they deserve for their "personalities."
You know the kind of personality that hardens when you wake up. The personality that makes you want to become one with someone else. Truly a loving personality.
Wrong. Your looks significantly affect the perception of your personality. If you have good looks people will be more willing to interact with you and accept you. If you are ugly, you could have the "best" personality in the world but it will be knocked down a few levels because people associate bad things with unsightly things.
Technically yes, your actual personality will not change, but ultimately the actual personality is not as big a factor in dating as normans claim it to be.
I'm not going to argue that its not easier to attractive people to hook up. But looking at incels there is just so much more going on here that doesn't hinge on that point.
I watched a video of an incel talking about his life and I swear the guy looked almost just like this guy that I know. But the difference in their personalities and just their vibe was night and day. If you met my friend you'd think he was a "norman" or some stupid label, but he's just a down to earth guy. Maybe the problem is more about what's going on in an incel's head.
So you just bring up the most shallow thing you can think of to combat my point. If this is the stuff you tell yourself then no wonder you have issues.
ah, so you cant. thanks for proofing my point. dont go arround saying "improve your personality" when your counterargument to a site that can get you super easy sex/fbw/relationships is that its "shallow"
if personality mattered, tinder woulidnt be shallow
thats funny, since my cousin just married a girl he met on tinder 4 years ago.
i dont see how you can write "most people dont ifnd relationships on tinder" as a answer to my comment and dont see how stupid you sound.Even if it was true(its not true, if youre good looking man/a women you can easily get a relationship, if thats your true and only goal), it still means that you can get sex/dates/approval etc
see again explain how personality matters if you can get easy from being just good looking
I don't agree. Yes sure you may be able to date and have short relationships just based on your looks, but it won't be a happy, healthy and long one if you have a shitty personality. I do agree that it's likely much easier to get a hook-up just by being conventionally attractive though.
yeah, having lee "good personality" when you cant find anyone is obvious way better then having a shitty personality while being able to get plenty of sex and relationships xD
It seems like over half of the people on this sub don't have good personalities, they just pretend to. Calling people you don't know stupid or Stacey's or whatever immediately shows how judgemental you are. I've seen comments basically saying that all women are unintelligent people who manipulate men. And you called me stupid even though to start with I didn't mention anything about good looks getting you hook-ups.
MEGACOPE, four of my friends have found long-lasting relationships on tinder, and they continue to use it with success. “Tinder is just a hookup app” is a cope for ugly men and a female lie.
She’ll be begging for any decent man once she turns 30 and hits the wall and no Chad will give her any attention except for 3am booty calls when his prime booty calls are busy.
Just don’t be the guys who gets roped into marrying her.
These comments always make me laugh. You redditors really are good for a laugh.
Anyone who thinks women aren't drastically and negatively affected by age is either a complete 100% no-joke shut in, actually autistic, or simply has never actually known women enough for the women to be comfortable being honest.*
The "biological clock" is so real that anyone denying it might as well deny death itself. Of course internet inceltroll autistics won't understand that women still being able to get sex isn't at all the same as women being queens of their 20s. Only an actually autistic white knight wouldn't understand women to the point where he thinks this wouldn't cause anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medication usage to skyrocket.
Oh man...the comments pretending women don't get affected by age...as if we needed proof that the trolls weren't playing with a full deck of cards...wow...taking women at their word has to be something only the simple still do...
Anyone who thinks women aren't drastically and negatively affected by age is either a complete 100% no-joke shut in, actually autistic, or simply has never actually known women enough for the women to be comfortable being honest.*
I said no such thing. I only said that the famous metaphor about the age being a biological wall that comes tumbling down is not that clear-cut.
Age affects everyone but with advances in medicine, women are able to stave off the negative consequences of ageing for much longer, compared to even 30 years ago.
Women in the millennial generation are actually aging faster because of high rates of promiscuity, alcohol and drug use, and not getting enough sleep/partying.
Are you talking about wearing more makeup? All the girls from high school now are hags. ALL of them. 100% So are the models and actresses from that generation. 100%
Age affects everyone but with advances in medicine, women are able to stave off the negative consequences of ageing for much longer, compared to even 30 years ago.
We're talking about appearance, not IVF. Even mutilated foreskin cream isn't magic.
I only said that the famous metaphor about the age being a biological wall that comes tumbling down is not that clear-cut.
The "famous metaphor" is of wiley e coyote slamming against a wall, not a wall crumbling down...god, at least pay attention if you're going to spout bullshit...
...the "famous metaphor" is about sex and sexual access. Are you dense? Yes, you are. Everyone denying or downplaying the devastation of the wall is. Let's mince more words!
Women in the millennial generation are actually aging faster because of high rates of promiscuity, alcohol and drug use, and not getting enough sleep/partying.
Proof?
Are you talking about wearing more makeup? All the girls from high school now are hags. ALL of them. 100% So are the models and actresses from that generation. 100%
"Hag" is an arbitrary category. If you're aiming to be factually correct, all the while telling someone that he's a moron - use impartial and non-loaded language, because otherwise you yourself also look like a tool. However, if that's okay with you - don't let me stop you.
We're talking about appearance, not IVF. Even mutilated foreskin cream isn't magic.
Yes, and?
The "famous metaphor" is of wiley e coyote slamming against a wall, not a wall crumbling down...god, at least pay attention if you're going to spout bullshit...
It's my personal interpretation. Of course I know its' origin but whatever. You redpillers are supreme copers but guess what, actual reality is going to hit you in the face just the same.
Age affects everyone but with advances in medicine, women are able to stave off the negative consequences of ageing for much longer, compared to even 30 years ago.
Meanwhile, obesity rates rise year on year, and diets get worse and get worse.
the bio urge to procreate is real, but whether you as an individual have kids or not is ultimately irrelevant. The human race is not gonna die out because Roastie #463635634 couldn't find a rich Chad to settle down and have kids with. Women's sexual appeal is not affected much by age, they go from Stacy to MILF and have a whole new appeal.
I'm in my late twenties, I've grown up with a outgoing sister who has a fuck load of pump and dump type girlfriends, all of them 8s or above. I know pretty much all of them on a personal basis, so much so that they are open to speak with me about the issues you outlined.
These women know inherently what the cock carousel is, what the wall is, and what their biological clocks are telling them.
They're all either knocked up and divorced or fucking miserable because they can't seem to find a man that wants a stable relationship with kids. They all know that they don't have a lot of time left because their eggs are reaching their limits. That's why they're making even dumber decisions because they want a kid, fast.
Only one out of the entire stable of women is truly happy, and that's the only one that, as far as I am concerned, legitimately didn't want children since she was in her teens. She has a stable relationship with a guy that also doesn't care to have children, and they both make fuck loads of money and spend that on themselves.
All women know about the wall. The moment they enter their thirties their easy lives pretty much end, especially the 8+ ones.
Aren't 25% of middle age women in the US on anti-depressants? I mean yes some depression is genetic and those women would of been on those drugs since they were much younger. But you've got a point, it seems depression rate sky-rockets for women once they go over 30 so a strong environmental effect. But they still have endless amount of average schmucks wanting to date or marry them.
This. The misconception is incels want sex. While I think that might hold true for some there are many as with anything else who just want healthy intimacy and a relationship. That's literally impossible with western women. Who wants to even touch one of these skanks?
That's why I personally get aggravated with their arguments
"Why would you want someone who hates you?"
I don't? Why am I having to live in a shit show where girls hate me or anyone?
"You're not owed sex!!!"
But I am owed a decent human being. Which you are not
TFW you hit all of her requirements on her online profile but still get rejected. They're full of shit lol. They just want a nice chadlite to bone all weekend.
I've seen a handful state something about height either about not caring about it or that they require a certain height.
I always found such statements superfluous since most should be aware of that most people have standards in regards to physical attraction even if those standards are not explicitly stated in the bio.
"The entitlement. I am conventionally attractive and I was rejected by men I like many times, but I never blamed it on them or thought that they deny some right of mine or whatever"
Yeah, and that's what everyone will assume, her friends will assume, and she will convince herself. In reality I was just ugly and stood out of line in conversation by mentioning a convention that was on in the weekend.
A lot of people are shallow, and it's documented that people will apply negative traits to people they find unattractive, so it is entirely plausible that that is what happened.
Sure it's plausible. But based on when my female friends will talk about a guy being creepy, them being unattractive is usually not the whole story. Alternately, they've called plenty of decent to good looking guys creepy.
Oh of course, I'm not saying it doesn't. That doesn't mean that every time a girl says you're creepy, you should just assume it's because you were ugly. It might be because you made her uncomfortable. Maybe you made her uncomfortable and you didnt even say anything wrong. You have to take it on a case by case basis.
Most of these guys don't view it as their right to get attractive pussy. They don't feel entitled to hot women. They are upset and venting because they've been consistently rejected by all women. Including women that should be their looksmatch and down. I've learned from lurking in this sub that most of these guys would he happy to get a chance with any girl even close to their looksmatch. Thats not entitlement, that's just what any normal person expects. I think these guys do exaggerate and generalize a bit but they also have first hand experience with a problem that's been going on for awhile and getting worse. Most people either don't know about these problems or trends or they just don't want to admit it.
That's not what she's saying. She's saying that she's been rejected and didn't develop a raging victim complex. But I know it feels good for you to rage at a woman. Gee, I wonder why you're not having luck with dating. Like, you do realize the people on this sub are ACTUAL misogynists, right? Not just using an SJW buzzword, but like, these guys are actually the kinds of people who would be abusive if they actually did get a girl. Believe it or not, women have a sense of this and most will avoid men that they think will be controlling, manipulative, or just downright mean.
Oh that's lame. I apologized to raspectwahmen, I thought he was the op who asked if I read the sidebar rules. I wouldnt have been as cheeky if I noticed it was a different person.
Not really because id bet some of the men are attractive. Having an attractive option doesnt equal a good option. Finding an actual partner is much more than looks.
I thought the point was the blackpill. So if they have attractive options that they decline, blackpill doesnt make sense. Unless you are claiming there is a different point incels are trying to prove?
Women always HAVE options, and more commonly they select UP rather than DOWN. I'm not pretending 100% of everyone acts like this all the time, but these are general patterns of behaviour across entire populations.
Ok that doesnt prove blackpill. Nobody denies women have more options than men. If you had your pick between selecting "up" or "down" what would you pick? I guarantee 99% of men are choosing the Instagram model over the overweight, awkward and goofy looking girl.
I think that's anyone for any opportunity when they're able to select something better than something worse. You guys though are like the bottom of the barrel and have no charm or any way of getting yourself a girl. Why don't you guys go get in a real life circle jerk and fuck each other?
Dude, everyone aims for higher tier. If you're actively looking for women who you arent actually interested in or attracted to, and you keep striking out, did you ever consider that was why? Also, demonstrating such a low level of self respect and confidence is not going to attract a single person.
Dude, this is incredibly generic and also completely wrong.
"Everyone aims for higher tier." No they fucking don't, I've never gone for a girl out of my league. The whole POINT is that women are more more likely to go UP and men are happy to go DOWN. This is how we get incels.
The most common object of affection wasn't the blonde bombshells, but the awkward, nerdy friend/classmate who wasn't super pretty but cute in her own way. Other 'cels have backed me up on this.
Have you ever considered the possibility that people behave differently online and in real life?
The whole POINT is that women are more more likely to go UP and men are happy to go DOWN. This is how we get incels.
Which women? Which men? You've never met a couple and wondered how on earth that shlub got with the girl he's with? Women will date down if they have poor self esteem, the same as men. All you're telling me is more men have poor self esteem, and I believe it.
The most common object of affection wasn't the blonde bombshells, but the awkward, nerdy friend/classmate who wasn't super pretty but cute in her own way. Other 'cels have backed me up on this.
Dude, just the way you framed that shows a part of the problem. You try to break people down into tiers and who has more value. Most people dont think like that, and if they do they're fucked up. You should NOT be thinking like that. The awkward, nerdy friend might have been looking for someone who validated them, sure, but thats immature and it isnt reflective of you or women on the whole.
Have you ever considered the possibility that people behave differently online and in real life?
Yes, and have you ever considered the possibility that your behavior online is more closely related to your behavior in real life than you realize?
Secondly, even this has a gender divide because women are allowed to be weak and insecure, but it's a death sentence for a guy (attractive guys excepted).
Okay, sure. Do you know how many men will reject a confident woman, though?
But even if you're calm on the outside, you still need to attract them physically. I never lose my temper or have anxiety attAcks or go on whiny rants like many people I know.
Yeah, okay, so youre not a basket case. Stop comparing yourself to people you know. Thats not going to work. People you know, like all people, are mostly fucked up. Those people who go on whiny rants are probably better at flirting than you are. They're probably better at being sweet to girls than you are. Or maybe the girls theyre with are fucked up. Maybe they got with their gf because she was drunk and rather than feeling raped she actually just starts dating the dude. There are just so many reasons and trying to single them out is silly. I get that ugly people dont have as easy a time dating, but the millions upon millions of people who are probably uglier than you are who have gfs contradict the assertion that being ugly is a death sentence. Being anxious, neurotic, clingy, ugly, insecure, and demonstrating so sexual confidence is what will tank your dating career. Ever heard of the youtuber boogie2988? Dude was 500 pounds, red in the face, and not a particularly good looking guy. Still found a wife.
No...we're talking about averages across populations. Not anecdotes. Saying, "I know some women who are stronger than some men," is irrelevant to the overall reality that men are stronger than women. This isn't just an incel theory, by the way. Far from it.
No, stop fucking gaslighting, people do this ALL the time. Lookism is real. Girls rate each other all the time, the fuck?
You can find exceptions for everything but it doesn't change the overall majority trend. Insecurity is such a fucking meme with you, you're careful to bring it up every two seconds.
How? I've never expressed my beliefs. Women can't sense shit over Tinder either, you idiot. If I were good looking it wouldn't matter anyway.
Not nearly as much, they'll gladly accept her offer lmfao. You don't see men complaining about getting hit on.
Boogie found a wife and then got divorced. He has a massive YouTube channel.
Here's the net of it, my man. Men have a much harder time than their female looksmatch in dating. Not only are woman generally more lookist, but weakness is also punished more. In both looks and personality, it's an uphill battle. Women can be uglier, a thousand times more insecure and clingy and they can get with guys well above her. There is a very real and massive disparity between men and women on this.
God, at least SJWs actually think they're making the world a better place or something. This is the worst of all their shit but it's just because you're sexually frustrated. I want to show some compassion but god damn do you people make it hard. Peace out dude, enjoy stewing in your misery. I have errands to run and I've let this take way more time from my day than I should have.
Ok, one final note. Yes, "normies" can be miserable. They can experience cheating and heartbreak and loneliness and low self-worth. I know.
We aren't EVEN on that level. There is a baseline and we haven't reached it.
Dude reading this just makes me feel too bad to not respond. I'm sorry that you feel that low about yourself, but it's just not true. There are women out there, beautiful, ugly, crazy, intelligent, who spend their ENTIRE LIVES being a victim. Who grow up with a fucked up sense of romance, who go their whole lives with male attention, and its a direct impediment to their happiness and success. Who would be better off alone. Make something of yourself, and someone WILL come along. That is simply your only option. Calling the world "lookist" will not change a damn thing. Posting on this forum wont change a damn thing, it's just a waste of your time. Make something of yourself and someone will come. It's just that simple. It's hard, it's hard as fuck, but it's simple. And if you make something of yourself, and no one comes along, that doesnt make you less of a human. It doesnt make you less valuable.
Posting on this forum is a coping mechanism. Hence the common meme "cope." Keeping it all bottled up feels even worse.
Well, when you have a fundamental human experience...look, honestly, if someone does come along, I won't turn her away, unless she's legit trying to use me. But it is frustrating to be playing with a terrible hand against a stacked deck and no-one wants to openly acknowledge it.
it is frustrating to be playing with a terrible hand against a stacked deck and no-one wants to openly acknowledge it.
Do you feel that that is the case? My own experience has been that society as a whole acknowledges that people with good looks, money, and power find more dating success. What do you think you'd want to see change about the world that would make you feel a little better? Also, you don't think that some of the ideas here and in other incel groups dont actually promote some really bad attitudes and ideas, things that actually are keeping people from finding someone?
Average and ugly guys have it a lot harder than average and ugly girls. The struggles of lower tier men are mocked or overlooked or ridiculed.
People can be less racist, maybe they can be less lookist. There isn't any one solution peddled here. Some want a traditional consecutive society (right-wing) others lean more to what I said (left-wing) a significant amount have given up entirely.
There are always extremists on every subreddit. The Donald, Late Stage Capitalism, etc. but you have blackpilled normies and chads too. I think there are user-definitely toxic aspects, but you can't get rid of them all.
Women have choices, men have chances. The source of incels anger is that fact; it's a sellers market and women are the ones selling, they don't have to look down and so the men on the bottom tier (incels) are invisible to them.
I can understand the anger. That said, being angry is useless. You need to let go of that. Easier said than done, but that needs to be the call to action if you actually want to be happier. If you invest in yourself- in hobbies, skills, and talents, you increase your value. If you present yourself with confidence, if you let go of the insecurity and anger, and if you make something of yourself, there will be perfectly healthy women who will want that in their lives. It might be something you have to wait for, but it will happen. It just will, and having hope is free, it doesn't cost you anything to believe it will happen, even if it doesn't.
It might be but as I've found with other incels, it's common to use ugliness as a blanket excuse for all social failures. While I wont deny being ugly limits your options, it doesnt make romance entirely impossible.
Also, I'd be surprised if you really are as ugly as you think.
The only real way you could help is by assuring/proving to incels that a statistically significant amount of women aren't very shallow, want a real/compassionate relationship, loyal, and monogamous, while also proving that betabuxx/alphafuxx isn't legitimiate. That's the only real way that you can "help" IMHO.
I don't speak for all incels, of course, but those things I've listed are all that I've ever really wanted.
I can understand that and frankly your goal shouldn't be to hookup.
The problem with most incels is they are too young. Honestly younger women are significantly more superficial. Most incels here struggle finding non-superficial women cause women roughly from adolescence to 25-26ish arent looking for serious relationships. They might be looking for a relationship but not something for the rest of their lives.
Which leads perfectly into the silly beta thing. Finding love later in life doesnt mean you are settling for a blown out woman or something as incels would have you think. It means women are looking for more than just someone to have sex with. They want someone who is loyal and will take care of her and any potential children as well as she'd take care of you. As well as looking for someone who they enjoy just spending time with because you'll be spending a lot together when you are married.
I probably cant talk you off of it with general statements like that but that really is how I see it.
This is fairly close to the blackpill, the only difference being interpreting the motives of women later on.
They just settle because they need someone to provide for them. Of course, there are unicorns, but we're talking about patterns if behaviour over entire populations, as I say many times here.
They just settle because they need someone to provide for them
A lot of women dont want to be provided for, for starters. Also, what do you mean by "settle"? It sounds like you are just extremely insecure and anxious that if you do find love, you wont be her first choice and shell secretly desire other men. Well guess what bud, that might be the case. Humans are sexual creatures and its almost impossible for them to only have any sexual desire for one human forever. You cant let that spin you out. Whats important is you find someone who wont act on those feelings. Obviously you wont be her first choice. She wont be yours, either. But the important thing is finding someone who still loves you for you, enough that they commit themselves to you, and vice versa.
Wasting away the prime of our lives until we get a stable income, IF we achieve that at all.
"Prime of your life" is some bullshit. Theres no such thing. Your physical prime, in terms of raw energy and ambition? Sure. But you can still have plenty of energy and ambition for your entire life. You're agonizing over an imagination that IF you were dating and having sex NOW it would be better than waiting until you're older, but the reality is love is love and sex is sex, no matter what age you are.
Except it's a fact that women desire the ability to provide and financial security more than men do in a partner. I'm talking about average behaviours over entire populations. People are influenced by their sex, men and women have different brains.
Maybe if you keep saying "inseure," you'll magically convince me of the errors of my ways.
"She won't be your first choice." Lmao what is this. Odd are she'll be my first or second WOMAN at all. Whereas I'll be one of many men. Women tend to aim up whereas men are happy to aim wherever.
Except it's a fact that women desire the ability to provide and financial security more than men do in a partner.
There is nothing innately biological about that and its a declining phenomena. Socially, women were kept out of the bulk of the jobs market until the 1970s. So yes, a lot of women are looking for someone to take care of them, but economics are changing. A man cant take care of a wife and kids on his own like he used to anymore, and many women dont WANT to be under their husbands financial control.
"She won't be your first choice." Lmao what is this. Odd are she'll be my first or second WOMAN at all.
More insecurity. You have to change that, because its unattractive to women and men too. It doesnt matter if shes your first and you're her hundredth. If she chooses you accept it for what it is and move on. Or obsess over the difference in experiences and ruin it. I dont know why youd want to ruin it, though.
Women tend to aim up whereas men are happy to aim wherever.
Yes there is lmao. Men are physically stronger and more capable, so historically were expected to shoulder the burdens of providing. Women aren't suddenly clamouring to take care of their men. It's still far more the other way around.
You're missing the point. The disparity indicates just how much settling there is. They are literally settling for someone they wouldn't have soared a second glance for year ago, how can you not see this?
"Speak for yourself." I don't know what this means. If I see a fat or ugly girl, should I reject them? Be more discriminating? What are you trying to say here?
If I see a fat or ugly girl, should I reject them? Be more discriminating? What are you trying to say here?
Holy shit dude, you call women superficial but look at yourself. If the girl has similar interests, likes your personality, and is someone who helps you grow as an individual, than thats what you should be looking for. Ugly, fat, beautiful, whatever the fuck. You're participating in the same shitty, superficial dating game as the chads and staceys and thats why you're miserable. Stop playing the game. Stop judging peoples value based on looks and money. I dont care if a lot of other people do it, theyre wrong and you need to stop if you want happiness. Because ya, youre probably not hot and you dont have a lot of money. If you're 4'9 stop trying to play basketball or if you decide to continue stop whining that the men 2 feet taller than you have an advantage. No ones making play basketball. No ones making you participate in the superficial hookup or dating culture that has prevailed in the west. thats the last im going to say because i came into this thread due to one post from somewhere else and ive sunken an hour of my time into arguing with people who basically want me to acknowledge theyre losers and the world hates them. Congratulations, whats your prize for winning that argument? The world hates you and you're a loser. Damn, that sucks, maybe try taking a different perspective and you'll find some happiness. Stop using shitty, shallow people's criteria and values to judge yourself.
Dude, you're missing the point by a mile. I've found overweight and...sigh girls who aren't model tier sexually attractive. And if I like their personality, even better.
You're acting like standards of attraction literally don't exist, that ugly people don't exist, that beautiful people don't exist. Please. There's a difference between judging based on looks and acknowledging that looks are a thing.
I just dont understand what separates you guys from the millions of ugly people who arent incel. I dont see how you can believe that you'll never find love, assuming you have love in your heart and know how to carry yourself with confidence. It just doesnt make sense to me, it seems like... sorry to say it again... but insecurity, and anxiety, driving your perceptions. I understand needing a place to vent, but I think this place, and especially the old incels group, went above and beyond people venting frustrations and helping each other. It seems like its just keeping you all down in a very negative perspective of the world that wont actually help you. The same as a forum of black people saying that they are x because they are black, instead of actually trying to discuss how to overcome x in spite of their blackness. Does that make sense?
You say "millions" but the world has 7.5 billion people.
I don't think it's literally impossible, just that the odds are very much against me, and it's a crock of shit that things are like this and people refuse to acknowledge it, or only covertly do so but deny it when asked bluntly.
Suffering in silence is fucking shit. Just accepting everything and all the unfairness like a sociopathic Zen master/Stoic philosopher is even worse because you try to not care but it's fucking impossible.
Society ridicules lower tier men and refuses to speak of our struggles. No wonder there is resentment. We have nowhere else to go.
I don't think it's literally impossible, just that the odds are very much against me, and it's a crock of shit that things are like this and people refuse to acknowledge it, or only covertly do so but deny it when asked bluntly.
Thats fair. It's a tough one because I feel like if society does acknowledge that there is a class of white men who are experiencing this, the next question becomes what do we do about it? Personally, I think legalizing sex work is a good step. I think the problem is a lot of people hear this community and what they get is "we are entitled to sex. women should be forced to have sex with us." I totally get that youre not saying that, but its what people hear. Based on some of the more jaded posts youll see on these places, can you understand why a lot of people would get that impression?
It ain't just white men, far from it. How long have you been here? Asians and Indians are disproportionately represented. This sub is often characterised as related to the alt-right. Lmao. Nothing could be further from the truth.
People say that because they can't think of anything else and they're angry at women. Personally I hope lookism will fade a little (not entirely) but enough.
Legalising prostitution may be part of it but probs won't solve it. After all, they'll be gritting their teeth all the way. Maybe sex robots. Who knows.
I said some women are superficial, specifically younger women. Blackpill says all women are completely superficial, full stop. So pretty different imo.
I just explained how this isnt settling. So just read the comment you replied to lol.
You dont have to wait, im just making the point there is hope on the horizon. Go improve yourself and get out there.
Women place less importance on looks and gradually more on ability to provide when looking for a long term partner as they get older. That's not becoming less superficial.
There are a few types of non-natives her. First are the basic normies who have no idea what's going on. Second are the dedicated IT users who just pick fights. Then you have another group of women who aren't IT but usually feminist and they pick fights.
Finally you have a small group of women and men who try to at least make a dialogue, however misguided or incorrect. I think MagratM is the most known example.
Y'all really wonder why women won't date you or sleep with you? Have you looked at your attitudes recently?
Sex is great, I love sex, but I also enjoy being in relationships with gasp people who respect me and don't think I
A) owe them sex
B) am at fault for why they don't have sex
and
C) must be stupid for not dating a "nice guy TM" who hits the above points
You see openly horrible people get laid all the time lmao. But making memes online and behaving normally irl is worse. Ok.
Have you ever considered their horrible behavior is why they get laid? If you commit yourself to manipulating and bullying a woman into sex, you could probably do it too. You guys are just so insecure you'll look at ANYONE havin
I'm caught in a trap where some normies say being sexist is why I'm incel and others say it helps. I cannot win lmao.
My friend openly acts like an edgelord and is the embodiment of a 4channer but he's good-looking so he gets girls. Any average or ugly guy cats like that, he's a creep. What you just said is a great way of getting labeled a creep.
Okay, so YOU said YOU don't want to manipulate or control women, right? Other men are okay with doing that, or don't realize that they're doing it. That's why they have girls and you don't. That's not a contradiction. The problem is you don't want to be an asshole, but you think being an asshole is how you'll get girls. Be an asshole, don't be an asshole, it doesn't really matter. The thing about assholes isnt that they get girls by being assholes, it's that theyre good at looking for girls who will be treated like shit. You dont want to be an asshole, so you're not good at that. You're looking for healthier women, so you'll be labeled a creep for acting the same way someone else might act, only that guys looking for women who basically want to recreate previous abusive situations whether they know it or not.
And yet, better looking guys ALWAYS magically find girls who want to be treated like shit. But somehow guys in this subreddit will not. Even with low self esteem, those same girls will sleep with the attractive bad boys, not the asshole loser.
Yes. A lot of women with low self esteem don't believe they deserve to be treated well. They try to validate their self worth by sleeping with hot men, just like a lot of the "chads" out there who actually feel empty inside even though they can bag a dime. Better looking guys do not always date girls who want to be treated like shit.
Yeah, and you don't see how bottom of the a barrel mental car crashes having far less difficulty compared to us doesn't validate even a part of our thesis? Our version is the low self esteem guy who literally has to pay women to have sex with him.
Our version is the low self esteem guy who literally has to pay women to have sex with him.
So what? Would you rather be a mental car crash? I dont get what you want. You just acknowledged yourself, there are a lot of fucked up people who are in relationships that they shouldnt be in. You shouldnt be envious of that lmfao Being able to be alone means you have some depth of character and spirit. Our society glorifies romance to a disgusting degree. Make something of yourself, and someone will PROBABLY come along. You arent entitled to that, though. No one is. If you died an 80 year virgin, that doesnt make you any less valuable of a human than anyone else.
These fucked up people can also attract good people. Essentially, they have choices. We are far more limited. You can date good and bad people if you attract them. If you haven't been able to attract anyone...well, nothing. Nothing at all.
It only has depth of character if you make the choice. I don't drink alcohol. But I've barely ever tried to. I can't boast about having self control about drinking or smoking if I've never tried them.
Look, I'm sorry for snapping, I don't hold genuine ill will towards you. But opting out is one thing. Being never in the game at all is another.
But opting out is one thing. Being never in the game at all is another.
I understand. Believe me dude, I'm not good with women at all. I don't have a very happy track record. I've never had a girlfriend, except for a 3 month stint with an asexual in high school. LOL I've had sex once and it was with a genuine, actual sociopath. I've had other opportunities, to be fair, but I think we can both relate to each other in that we havent had the "normal" sexual/romantic careers that we see among peers or in the media. I think its hard when you aren't "in the game" at all to imagine what you're missing, but, you really arent missing as much as you think you are. I promise. I know that it sucks and youll feel bad no matter what, but try not to make yourself feel WORSE, you know what I mean? It WILL happen for you dude. Just keep investing in yourself. Your health, your skills, your social skills, your confidence. If you do those things, it will happen, it absolutely will.
I don't doubt that people can have absolute train-wreck sex lives. But that still means broadly having a sex life, and if you have that, the chance of a GOOD sex life is there.
If you commit yourself to manipulating and bullying a woman into sex, you could probably do it too
Are you really advising us to emotionally abuse a woman into sex, and then calling us pussies because we're too insecure to do it? Stop being a shithead.
No! Of course not! You're making the right decision by NOT doing those things. But you keep comparing yourselves to men who do those things. I'm pointing it out to show you guys that you're comparing apples to oranges. IF you were willing to look for abused women and be shitty to them, you could find yourself a girl. But you're not, and thats good, so stop comparing yourselves to men who do that. Don't abuse anyone.
You're making progress but you are failing to understand one key truth.
A woman, consciously or not, concludes whether or not they are sexually attracted to you in just a few moments after meeting you. If she is, virtually all behaviour except for the most egregious won't change this fact. If she is not, literally no amount of awesome behaviour will change this fact.
The manipulative asshole doesn't get women via manipulation and dickish behaviour as much as he exploits the fact that a woman already wants to fuck him.
I agree, women will generally know pretty quickly if they're attracted to you or not. That being said, women, like men, have a wide sexuality. There are many people that a woman might generically have sex with, but it's the personality that decides whether she actually does it or not. On the other hand, I think you're also downplaying how often someone becomes endeared to someone else. I dont think its a binary "yes/no" situation. I think that there are plenty of women who might not find someone particularly attractive, but after getting to know them, find themselves becoming more attracted. Like, lets use the example of the abused woman. She's been abused by her father, or brother, or whatever. She's used to being treated like shit, and there are even some abused women who dont respect a man that wont "put them in line" by hitting them. I'm sure she sees many men that she would fuck, but if the man doesnt "assert" himself with her, she'll lose interest and not want to fuck him. Alternately, there may be a man who "asserts" himself and wins her affection. Its why groady ass biker dudes can still get girls; it's their behavior, not their looks. Ultimately, I think that attraction is really complicated and I see most of the comments here reducing it to "women just want hot/rich dudes!!" or "women dont want ugly/poor men!!" And I dont think either of those statements are true.
So if women have attractive options that they decline, blackpill doesnt make sense.
?????????
They're privileged to the point they can turn down an attractive option in favor of a better attractive option because they can afford it. What about this doesn't make sense?
By helping them realize the things they need to improve on and providing a female perspective to any social situations. As I said its entirely situational, some of you just need a confidence boost and assurances about appearance from a woman. While others, may need more extreme measures like getting diagnosed by a professional. I guess the ultimate success for me would be helping someone find romance. If that means removing you from incel ideology then I guess so.
That's not even true, though. If you have no confidence, no finesse, and are completely unwilling to learn from your mistakes, that takes romance off the table. There are ugly men, crippled men, and even autistic men who find romance. How do you think that happened?
It literally is. Romance is built on sexual attraction, otherwise r/deadbedrooms wouldn't exist. Unless you're asexual. I'm not, and neither are most people.
Money, status, luck. I didn't claim 100 of all women act like this all the time. If you think that's me moving the goalposts, look at my comment history, I've said this for a while.
Dead bedrooms exists because having sex with the same person for years on end can get boring. Those people are still interested in their relationship or else they wouldn't be seeking help.
I don't see the advantage in thinking of dating and romance in terms of averages and majorities. You're a unique individual who brings his own strengths and weaknesses forward.
By helping them realize the things they need to improve on and providing a female perspective to any social situations.
Tell me, don't "normal" people need to improve on a lot of things too? Why not go after a bigger problem, the massive number of people enabling incels by confirming their biases using over generalizing language, not fully understanding their position, and writing off their concerns as the whinings of a lonely virgin with a shit personality? (Without even knowing them)
Also a female perspective isn't going to help them, I'm sorry but it just isn't. They automatically feel you are privileged, you have "power" when it comes to sexuality and relationships just based on being female. They look at your advice as being condescending because in their eyes, there's no possible way you could understand what they are going through even if you think you do. And as a bisexual man I agree with them, relationship dynamics are different between the sexes and how you go about obtaining a relationship isn't the same way necessarily that a man would.
People who spew vitriol to someone like an Incel vastly outnumber the amount of incels that exist. Wouldn't you say a big problem is the way the incels have been treated by others? By "normal" people? Misogyny and hatred are learned behaviors, for those that are truly Incel it's not surprising they'd turn to vitriol, hatred and bitterness to attempt to get their point across when any attempt at actual discourse is again written off as the whining of virgins. You're right it is entirely situational, but I'd say a much bigger issue and I would argue a major underlying cause of young men being sucked into inceldom are due to the lack of support network these men have and the "Normie's" who only fuel the fire.
I feel if you want to help incels you should be out correcting the misinformation spread about them and get "Normie's" to realize they have some valid points and not every Incel is engaging in the idiotic toxicity that is oh so prevalent on this sub.
And to turn this onto the incels, if you want your points to be heard and "Normie's" to consider your position you need to condemn those that spew that idiotic vitriol which merely poisons the well and further stains your image. You have valid points to make, make them with good, reasonable discourse not this "cope or rope" shit.
As I said its entirely situational, some of.you just need a confidence boost and assurances about appearance from a woman.
It's truly not that easy. Even if they do need a confidence boost which I would say you're correct in that a livid them do, you're simply not going to achieve it from a few random discussions on reddit. Maybe if they could post their pic and have an army of females flocking to them giving them likes and support, sure, but that's not what happens when you're a man unless you are exceptionally attractive.
While others, may need more extreme measures like getting diagnosed by a professional.
Yeah that would be most ideal for everyone I would imagine.
I guess the ultimate success for me would be helping someone find romance. If that means removing you from incel ideology then I guess so.
Well good luck in your endeavor, I don't see it happening but I at the very least applaud your attempt.
That last paragraph of the first statenent is spot on and something I've tried to say here for a long time. I just get told incels dont want their help and to fuck off. Which is a bad stance to take but what can you do with that?
I disagree though that the best way to help is go after "normies". Let's just say hypothetically I could go to incel tears and convince 5 thousand people all incels are just misunderstood but good people. That would be an amazing feat and honestly is probably not even remotely possible but for the sake of arguement I'll take it there. The chances any incel interacts with one of those 5 thousand people in their real life is basically zero. So, it's not helping anyone find romance. Maybe those 5 thousand people would stop harassing incels online but people harassing them online isnt what's ruining romance lives. Also, my help would just be a drop in the ocean in terms of fixing problems because its not stopping harassment completley. That's not even mentioning the fact that as I mentioned beforr those 5 thousand people's empathy would largely fall on deaf ears because incels mostly arent interested in their empathy.
Instead, I try to have a larger impact on the lives of those who seek out help. Even if I just push someone to start working out or going to seek professional help and that's it, it would have a big impact on that person. Most importantly this is something that is affecting real life which is where relationships are made.
The other problem being I hate IT. First making fun of a bunch of disadvantaged people is horrific. The other issue I have is its just an echo chamber. I dont appreciate reading a bunch of people telling each other how amazing they are for having the same opinion. Say what you want about incels but they all have unique world views. Incels also have no problem shitting on eachother if they disagree. Incels might hate on me but atleast I understand why they do. IT just hate for the sake of hate and feeling better about themselves. Which in my eyes is pathetic and have no interest spending significant time there.
I said that confidence and assurances part because I've had guys who claimed to be incels. However, upon showing me their pic they ended up being pretty cute and just had no confidence approaching women. Social anxiety is a bitch but sometimes what you need to get over it is assurances that you arent ugly and it's in your head. Trust me, its happened more than once and everytime it really was that easy. They thanked me and told me their biggest problem is just not getting themselves out there enough.
Ya lots of people here probably need mental help. Which is why I hate these posts calling mental help brainwashing. It could do a lot of good for a solid population of this sub.
I haven't achieved that goal. I've had people thank me and say I helped them a lot. Unfortunately, finding love is a long and can be a somewhat brutal road.
I disagree though that the best way to help is go after "normies".
I'm not saying it's the best way there is no "best" way but I simply feel your time would be better spent dealing with "Normie's" especially since based on some of the interactions I've seen you engage in you seem to have a difficult time discerning who is a troll and who isn't.
Let's just say hypothetically I could go to incel tears and convince 5 thousand people all incels are just misunderstood but good people.
I wouldn't even say that's true. I'm not saying incels are poor lost lambs being set upon by the wolves there are plenty of idiotic pieces of shit whom identify as an incel but if you want to help the incels whom could still be reached you should try pushing the idea of tolerance and the consideration of their ideas with those whom may actually listen to you, the "Normie's." This is a big reason why I'm even engaging with you. I hate bad arguments and I feel your heart may be in the right place I just think you're going about it wrong.
That would be an amazing feat and honestly is probably not even remotely possible but for the sake of arguement I'll take it there. The chances any incel interacts with one of those 5 thousand people in their real life is basically zero. So, it's not helping anyone find romance.
You simply cannot help someone find romance. They have to do it on their own, you can nudge them in the right direction but in order to do that you have to know them on a far more personal level. This will not be achieved by randomly disagreeing with incels on reddit nor would it be achieved by one person.
But what if instead you can convince those 5 thousand people to actually listen to what a rational Incel has to say. Yes I know that seems rare but I've talked to them, they do exist. What if you could get those 5 thousand people to realize they are engaging in the exact same kind of fallacies they accuse incels of. Over generalizing, assuming, straw manning or any number of others. What if, in turn, those 5 thousand people do come across someone like an Incel in real life. Perhaps they would be better equipped to understand and possibly help instead of immediately throwing out labels and summing the persons character up in five seconds.
Maybe those 5 thousand people would stop harassing incels online but people harassing them online isnt what's ruining romance lives.
I agree, it's a symptom of a much bigger problem.
Also, my help would just be a drop in the ocean in terms of fixing problems because its not stopping harassment completley.
You can never stop harassment completely, but your "help" is already a drop in the ocean especially towards someone who doesn't want to hear it from you. A better way to get through to them is for them to see you clearing up misinformation that a "Normie" may present, this shows you have a better understanding of their position and actually value logic and truth, not emotional bullocks with no real substance.
That's not even mentioning the fact that as I mentioned beforr those 5 thousand people's empathy would largely fall on deaf ears because incels mostly arent interested in their empathy.
There's a reason for that, they haven't been shown empathy throughout most of their lives. We're talking about people who may have social autism, birth defects or terrible communication skills. When they get bullied because of this throughout their lives these wounds cut very deep by comparison of say you or I whom may have a better chance at shrugging off said bullying. Of course I feel many incels are massive hypocrites when they complain about bullying yet will bully someone like u/board_gaming but I digress.
Instead, I try to have a larger impact on the lives of those who seek out help.
How many have?
Even if I just push someone to start working out or going to seek professional help and that's it, it would have a big impact on that person.
I don't disagree but I feel again you may form a better understanding for yourself by engaging with those whom just do nothing but generalize incels, ultimately being able to relate to them easier and perhaps they may be more willing to approach you.
The other problem being I hate IT. First making fun of a bunch of disadvantaged people is horrific. The other issue I have is its just an echo chamber. I dont appreciate reading a bunch of people telling each other how amazing they are for having the same opinion. Say what you want about incels but they all have unique world views. Incels also have no problem shitting on eachother if they disagree. Incels might hate on me but atleast I understand why they do. IT just hate for the sake of hate and feeling better about themselves. Which in my eyes is pathetic and have no interest spending significant time there.
You should be telling this to the inceltears members whom come to this subreddit. I do it all the time, looking through my post history you may see a lot of Incel defending but don't get me wrong, I have very strong feelings towards the incels themselves and I feel many of them are idiots or misguided. But again, the cycle will continue if we let communities like inceltears remain non-accountable (for lack of a better word?) We have to change as a society and recognize male disadvantages. Those on inceltears or the average random whom just happened upon incels either flat out ignore male issues or severely downplay them. That attitude needs to switch if you want any hope at stopping young men from believing the toxic shit you so desperately want them to not believe.
I said that confidence and assurances part because I've had guys who claimed to be incels. However, upon showing me their pic they ended up being pretty cute and just had no confidence approaching women.
Excuse me while I go to the confidence store and pick up a confidence kit.
I wonder why their confidence has been drained to next to non existent? It couldn't be the terrible experiences they had with "Normie's" or the constant rejections/insults they receive due to something trivial that they cannot change like Penis size or height. We as a society need to change our outlook on what it takes to be a "man." Man up is a sexist phrase still largely prevalent within feminist left wing circles and until we recognize this hypocrisy and have an adult discussion about it you aren't going to see any decline in incels or "Manosphere" type people.
Social anxiety is a bitch but sometimes what you need to get over it is assurances that you arent ugly and it's in your head.
I agree, but this is something they need to realize themselves and simply won't realize it via reddit. While I try to refrain from anecdotes I was at one point in my life a cringey niceguyTM neckbeard whom thought I could do no wrong. I believed most if not all women were incredibly superficial and that I was the nice guy whom wouldn't treat them like shit. But after several rejections and taking a good, long look at myself I realized how fucking idiotic I was being. I would lash out at rejection, call people whores for it and all sorts of shit. When I took that long hard look at myself I realized I was the asshole, I was the douchebag manipulator and I was the physical embodiment of everything I proclaimed to hate.
These types of people genuinely have a difficult if not impossible time coming to grips with this reality. For many it needs to hit them like a train and they may not recover from it. But for most this incredible lack of self awareness cannot be broken without a lot of time and devotion from the person themselves. You cannot force an addict for example to stop using they need to see it for themselves. Anything else is just white noise to them.
Trust me, its happened more than once and everytime it really was that easy. They thanked me and told me their biggest problem is just not getting themselves out there enough.
How do you know it's genuine and how do you know they went on to progress after your discussions? If that's true then great, I hope they saw the light and moved on. I'm just saying you're dealing with the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
If you want to get rid of a shit snake, you cut it off at the shit head.
Ya lots of people here probably need mental help. Which is why I hate these posts calling mental help brainwashing. It could do a lot of good for a solid population of this sub.
I understand why they say it and their problems with it. I myself have had terrible experiences with the mental health system and to be honest it was mostly due to it being very female focused. When I was in rehab, ALL of the counselors were women. As I look now to find a counselor in my area nearly all of them are women and the few men I have found are either too far or don't take my insurance but again I digress. My point is it's understandable why they may be standoffish towards the mental health system and it goes back to that acceptance and tolerance of male issues again.
You female perspective you provide isn't useful because you are not attempting to extract the fundamental truth of a behaviour or a situation, you just seek to establish and re-establish the narrative you're married to.
If you aren't willing to admit you and virtually all women are shockingly more shallow than they claim to be, at the very least, then you are in denial and the perspective you offer is a delusion.
I just think women's perspective is useful because men often misinterpret things. A suprising amount tbh, and those misinterprstations can lead to problems. The whole fundamental truth and all that nonsense is silly. My narrative is to spread love and hapiness, other than that I'm not tied to anything. I can be talked back off anything with good information. I'm just offering my perspective, if you think that's worthless then dont ask for it and ignore me.
I said my goal was to help people find romance. I dont really care about getting someone off the ideology. If you can find love and whole heartedly believe blackpill then more power to you.
guess the ultimate success for me would be helping someone find romance. If that means removing you from incel ideology then I guess so.
You literally said removing someone from incel idealogy aligns with what you want to do. Were you lying then or are you lying now? Why do you not care about adhering to a truth?
I just think women's perspective is useful because men often misinterpret things.
YOU continue to misunderstand. You aren't actually giving a women's perspective when you try because you are more interested in maintaining this helpful love and romance narrative than you are in uncovering and providing useful truths and ideas. Every time you write you have no marriage to anything other than what works for you in that dialogue, think 1984 by Orwell.
I can be talked back off anything with good information.
I'm honestly offended that you wrote this as if I will instantly believe that claim. Lip service is unnecessary, prove that you really believe that by arguing ideas and truths not just saying absolutely meaningless nothings.
You want to help people find romance when you legitimately have no idea what you even believe or know because you never examined any of it with any kind of seriousness. You just talk and write and reinforce your delusions so righteously.
You will probably characterize this response as an angry incel or someone lashing out in order to invalidate it rather than self reflect and realize what I'm saying applies. I'm not an incel, and I'm not lashing out, you are just disrespectful, flippant, irreverent
No, in the first message I was saying if that requires getting them off the ideology then I'd do it. I frankly dont care if you believe the incel ideology or not. It does nothing for me convincing you the ideology is right or wrong. If it benefits you then I'd suggest it.
This contradicts itself. You say I cant offer help because I'm too closely tied to a narrative. Then you say I dont have a narrative and just say what's useful to me. So which is it? Again, I'm offering my help which some people have found very useful. If you think I cant help you then ignore me.
Tell me specifically what you want to argue on. I have stances but I'm open to them changing. Which again first mean I didn't have beliefs I've thought out unlike what you said. Which is extremely disrespectful to just assume even if you have read everyone of my comments. I dont think you are lashing out, I just dony understand why you feel you can make all these assumptions about me. I also dont understand how I have been disrespectful or flippant. I've been nothing but respectful in the face of tons of disrespect. There are maybe things you could say about me based on my comments being disrespectful is 100% not one of them.
A long time ago someone on IT accidentally revealed this. She said something like "Women having a lot of male options for dating is like having a lot of rotten food in the fridge , non of it is actually good". That was a very rough paraphrase buts its the same idea.
Depends on how far the food has gone, but the point is moot when the foid's pantry is so full she'll turn her nose up at anything past its sell-by date.
Playing devil's advocate here: it's not really bad. We all want to best for ourselves. It's the hypocrisy that comes with the self-interest, would you agree?
none of them are incelibate because they are attractive. However <average women are able to say that because of the huge discrepancy in the dating market.
Thats the status of /u/board_gaming, claims to be unable to find a date/boyfriend yet is female and not obese so is clearly lying and just holding high standards.
Lmfao. Dude literally fucking killed himself and was the guy who made that fat bitch mod. Maybe he killed himself because he realized what a horrible mistake that was?
The only real way you could help is by assuring/proving to incels that a statistically significant amount of women aren't very shallow, want a real/compassionate relationship, loyal, and monogamous, while also proving that betabuxx/alphafuxx isn't legitimiate. That's the only real way that you can "help" IMHO.
I don't speak for all incels, of course, but those things I've listed are all that I've ever really wanted.
This is fairly close to the blackpill, the only difference being interpreting the motives of women later on.
They just settle because they need someone to provide for them. Of course, there are unicorns, but we're talking about patterns if behaviour over entire populations, as I say many times here.
By helping them realize the things they need to improve on and providing a female perspective to any social situations.
Tell me, don't "normal" people need to improve on a lot of things too? Why not go after a bigger problem, the massive number of people enabling incels by confirming their biases using over generalizing language, not fully understanding their position, and writing off their concerns as the whinings of a lonely virgin with a shit personality? (Without even knowing them)
Also a female perspective isn't going to help them, I'm sorry but it just isn't. They automatically feel you are privileged, you have "power" when it comes to sexuality and relationships just based on being female. They look at your advice as being condescending because in their eyes, there's no possible way you could understand what they are going through even if you think you do. And as a bisexual man I agree with them, relationship dynamics are different between the sexes and how you go about obtaining a relationship isn't the same way necessarily that a man would.
People who spew vitriol to someone like an Incel vastly outnumber the amount of incels that exist. Wouldn't you say a big problem is the way the incels have been treated by others? By "normal" people? Misogyny and hatred are learned behaviors, for those that are truly Incel it's not surprising they'd turn to vitriol, hatred and bitterness to attempt to get their point across when any attempt at actual discourse is again written off as the whining of virgins. You're right it is entirely situational, but I'd say a much bigger issue and I would argue a major underlying cause of young men being sucked into inceldom are due to the lack of support network these men have and the "Normie's" who only fuel the fire.
I feel if you want to help incels you should be out correcting the misinformation spread about them and get "Normie's" to realize they have some valid points and not every Incel is engaging in the idiotic toxicity that is oh so prevalent on this sub.
And to turn this onto the incels, if you want your points to be heard and "Normie's" to consider your position you need to condemn those that spew that idiotic vitriol which merely poisons the well and further stains your image. You have valid points to make, make them with good, reasonable discourse not this "cope or rope" shit.
As I said its entirely situational, some of.you just need a confidence boost and assurances about appearance from a woman.
It's truly not that easy. Even if they do need a confidence boost which I would say you're correct in that a livid them do, you're simply not going to achieve it from a few random discussions on reddit. Maybe if they could post their pic and have an army of females flocking to them giving them likes and support, sure, but that's not what happens when you're a man unless you are exceptionally attractive.
While others, may need more extreme measures like getting diagnosed by a professional.
Yeah that would be most ideal for everyone I would imagine.
I guess the ultimate success for me would be helping someone find romance. If that means removing you from incel ideology then I guess so.
Well good luck in your endeavor, I don't see it happening but I at the very least applaud your attempt.
A lot of people are shallow, and it's documented that people will apply negative traits to people they find unattractive, so it is entirely plausible that that is what happened.
You female perspective you provide isn't useful because you are not attempting to extract the fundamental truth of a behaviour or a situation, you just seek to establish and re-establish the narrative you're married to.
If you aren't willing to admit you and virtually all women are shockingly more shallow than they claim to be, at the very least, then you are in denial and the perspective you offer is a delusion.
Oh that's lame. I apologized to raspectwahmen, I thought he was the op who asked if I read the sidebar rules. I wouldnt have been as cheeky if I noticed it was a different person.
Lmfao. Dude literally fucking killed himself and was the guy who made that fat bitch mod. Maybe he killed himself because he realized what a horrible mistake that was?
154 comments
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Upvote this to the top.
Also, when we are advised to get extensive plastic surgery - proving our point. Literally have to physically alter your face through an expensive medical operation just to be on the same level as your female looksmatch.
1 Virion85 2018-05-27
"If you haven't literally risked your life for the chance of landing a 2/10, you are volcel!" Lol.
1 BettyCogburn 2018-05-27
Then we end up with this creature as our plastic surgeon and end up brain dead.
1 beancel 2018-05-27
That's the worst video I have seen in a while jesus christ
1 t-away3 2018-05-27
When the shoe fits
1 Idk12344482305 2018-05-27
Deserves it for choosing a black woman as his doctor. Like what the fuck, white or asian male, that should be obvious.
1 Ixilary 2018-05-27
Considering you said "creature", I was expecting you to link to this (which is creepy in a different way). But yeah what the hell is wrong with those doctors?
1 shanshaPleash 2018-05-27
Can't get plastic surgery on your personality.
1 Scary_Tax 2018-05-27
It's true. Since women have become increasingly open about who they are and how they feel about men, the game has changed.
You can't extend your personality so by all accounts if it's not already seven inches and thick you might as well not have been born. Men with good personalities don't have this problem. They get all the "love" they deserve for their "personalities."
1 shanshaPleash 2018-05-27
what are you talking about
1 eyewant 2018-05-27
You know the kind of personality that hardens when you wake up. The personality that makes you want to become one with someone else. Truly a loving personality.
1 cel-shaded 2018-05-27
Wrong. Your looks significantly affect the perception of your personality. If you have good looks people will be more willing to interact with you and accept you. If you are ugly, you could have the "best" personality in the world but it will be knocked down a few levels because people associate bad things with unsightly things.
Technically yes, your actual personality will not change, but ultimately the actual personality is not as big a factor in dating as normans claim it to be.
1 shanshaPleash 2018-05-27
I'm not going to argue that its not easier to attractive people to hook up. But looking at incels there is just so much more going on here that doesn't hinge on that point.
I watched a video of an incel talking about his life and I swear the guy looked almost just like this guy that I know. But the difference in their personalities and just their vibe was night and day. If you met my friend you'd think he was a "norman" or some stupid label, but he's just a down to earth guy. Maybe the problem is more about what's going on in an incel's head.
1 empatheticapathetic 2018-05-27
Ok
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
"i am not arguing that personality matters, but it does"
low iq.
1)be good looking/female 2)go on tinder 3) profit
1) be bad looking male 2) "no looks dont matter, its your personality. but of course you cant go on tinder/to bars/clubs/streetgame ..."
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
if personality matters, then explain tinder.
1 shanshaPleash 2018-05-27
So you just bring up the most shallow thing you can think of to combat my point. If this is the stuff you tell yourself then no wonder you have issues.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
ah, so you cant. thanks for proofing my point. dont go arround saying "improve your personality" when your counterargument to a site that can get you super easy sex/fbw/relationships is that its "shallow"
if personality mattered, tinder woulidnt be shallow
1 blackcatpaws 2018-05-27
Most people don't find relationships on tinder
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
thats funny, since my cousin just married a girl he met on tinder 4 years ago.
i dont see how you can write "most people dont ifnd relationships on tinder" as a answer to my comment and dont see how stupid you sound.Even if it was true(its not true, if youre good looking man/a women you can easily get a relationship, if thats your true and only goal), it still means that you can get sex/dates/approval etc
see again explain how personality matters if you can get easy from being just good looking
1 blackcatpaws 2018-05-27
I don't agree. Yes sure you may be able to date and have short relationships just based on your looks, but it won't be a happy, healthy and long one if you have a shitty personality. I do agree that it's likely much easier to get a hook-up just by being conventionally attractive though.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
yeah, having lee "good personality" when you cant find anyone is obvious way better then having a shitty personality while being able to get plenty of sex and relationships xD
1 blackcatpaws 2018-05-27
It seems like over half of the people on this sub don't have good personalities, they just pretend to. Calling people you don't know stupid or Stacey's or whatever immediately shows how judgemental you are. I've seen comments basically saying that all women are unintelligent people who manipulate men. And you called me stupid even though to start with I didn't mention anything about good looks getting you hook-ups.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
1 blackcatpaws 2018-05-27
I don't see how I was changing the topic, we're talking about how personalities have an effect on forming relationships
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
yes, and you admitted that someone with good looks will have plently of relationships
1 blackcatpaws 2018-05-27
What's the point of 'plenty of relationships'? Surely you just want to find 'the one'? Unless you're looking for casual sex of course.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-27
the point is good looks will get him relationships.
1 Idk12344482305 2018-05-27
MEGACOPE, four of my friends have found long-lasting relationships on tinder, and they continue to use it with success. “Tinder is just a hookup app” is a cope for ugly men and a female lie.
1 blackcatpaws 2018-05-27
Oh I must be wrong then, sorry! I thought it was pretty much just a hook-up app. I'm not a megacope, I'm not an incel
1 itsbeenover 2018-05-27
lol i can't believe u said that
1 nerdicbastards 2018-05-27
Personality transplants come after the face one.
1 SmellyDanglyLabia 2018-05-27
There's just no guys with good personalities out there teehee
1 IronMeltsinmyHands 2018-05-27
Women don’t want good anyway.
1 iwannabehuge 2018-05-27
She’ll be begging for any decent man once she turns 30 and hits the wall and no Chad will give her any attention except for 3am booty calls when his prime booty calls are busy.
Just don’t be the guys who gets roped into marrying her.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
Oh my God, the wall is a cope. Or, rather, it's true only for a part of women.
1 Scary_Tax 2018-05-27
These comments always make me laugh. You redditors really are good for a laugh.
Anyone who thinks women aren't drastically and negatively affected by age is either a complete 100% no-joke shut in, actually autistic, or simply has never actually known women enough for the women to be comfortable being honest.*
The "biological clock" is so real that anyone denying it might as well deny death itself. Of course internet inceltroll autistics won't understand that women still being able to get sex isn't at all the same as women being queens of their 20s. Only an actually autistic white knight wouldn't understand women to the point where he thinks this wouldn't cause anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medication usage to skyrocket.
Oh man...the comments pretending women don't get affected by age...as if we needed proof that the trolls weren't playing with a full deck of cards...wow...taking women at their word has to be something only the simple still do...
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
I said no such thing. I only said that the famous metaphor about the age being a biological wall that comes tumbling down is not that clear-cut.
Age affects everyone but with advances in medicine, women are able to stave off the negative consequences of ageing for much longer, compared to even 30 years ago.
1 Scary_Tax 2018-05-27
Women in the millennial generation are actually aging faster because of high rates of promiscuity, alcohol and drug use, and not getting enough sleep/partying.
Are you talking about wearing more makeup? All the girls from high school now are hags. ALL of them. 100% So are the models and actresses from that generation. 100%
We're talking about appearance, not IVF. Even mutilated foreskin cream isn't magic.
The "famous metaphor" is of wiley e coyote slamming against a wall, not a wall crumbling down...god, at least pay attention if you're going to spout bullshit...
...the "famous metaphor" is about sex and sexual access. Are you dense? Yes, you are. Everyone denying or downplaying the devastation of the wall is. Let's mince more words!
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
Proof?
"Hag" is an arbitrary category. If you're aiming to be factually correct, all the while telling someone that he's a moron - use impartial and non-loaded language, because otherwise you yourself also look like a tool. However, if that's okay with you - don't let me stop you.
Yes, and?
It's my personal interpretation. Of course I know its' origin but whatever. You redpillers are supreme copers but guess what, actual reality is going to hit you in the face just the same.
1 Scary_Tax 2018-05-27
You're asking for a study on premature aging of women's faces and skin?
Go outside and pay attention. No one will ever fund that study. Come on now...pay attention...
1 frankwashere44 2018-05-27
Meanwhile, obesity rates rise year on year, and diets get worse and get worse.
1 TreesnCats 2018-05-27
Yeah, the whores posting to NSFW subs are just lying about their age. There's no 35+yo women who look like they're in their twenties!
1 Plague-Lord 2018-05-27
the bio urge to procreate is real, but whether you as an individual have kids or not is ultimately irrelevant. The human race is not gonna die out because Roastie #463635634 couldn't find a rich Chad to settle down and have kids with. Women's sexual appeal is not affected much by age, they go from Stacy to MILF and have a whole new appeal.
1 Carvemynameinstone 2018-05-27
I wholeheartedly fucking agree with your points.
I'm in my late twenties, I've grown up with a outgoing sister who has a fuck load of pump and dump type girlfriends, all of them 8s or above. I know pretty much all of them on a personal basis, so much so that they are open to speak with me about the issues you outlined.
These women know inherently what the cock carousel is, what the wall is, and what their biological clocks are telling them.
They're all either knocked up and divorced or fucking miserable because they can't seem to find a man that wants a stable relationship with kids. They all know that they don't have a lot of time left because their eggs are reaching their limits. That's why they're making even dumber decisions because they want a kid, fast.
Only one out of the entire stable of women is truly happy, and that's the only one that, as far as I am concerned, legitimately didn't want children since she was in her teens. She has a stable relationship with a guy that also doesn't care to have children, and they both make fuck loads of money and spend that on themselves.
All women know about the wall. The moment they enter their thirties their easy lives pretty much end, especially the 8+ ones.
1 based_meme 2018-05-27
Preach it, brother.
Only a fool relegates the status of a biological phenomenon down to a sociological one.
Biology > sociology.
1 Yemanthing 2018-05-27
They get effected by age. But not enough that it matters for people like us. They'll just climb Chadlite's cock instead.
1 Hot_Incele_Rae 2018-05-27
Aren't 25% of middle age women in the US on anti-depressants? I mean yes some depression is genetic and those women would of been on those drugs since they were much younger. But you've got a point, it seems depression rate sky-rockets for women once they go over 30 so a strong environmental effect. But they still have endless amount of average schmucks wanting to date or marry them.
1 Crackcel 2018-05-27
Nah, I thought the wall was cope at first too but it's backed by Blackpill Science.
1 JamesLucratif 2018-05-27
This. The misconception is incels want sex. While I think that might hold true for some there are many as with anything else who just want healthy intimacy and a relationship. That's literally impossible with western women. Who wants to even touch one of these skanks?
That's why I personally get aggravated with their arguments
"Why would you want someone who hates you?"
I don't? Why am I having to live in a shit show where girls hate me or anyone?
"You're not owed sex!!!"
But I am owed a decent human being. Which you are not
1 zZacharyChad 2018-05-27
TFW you hit all of her requirements on her online profile but still get rejected. They're full of shit lol. They just want a nice chadlite to bone all weekend.
1 andinuad 2018-05-27
Does any male or female write "I require that you look sufficiently good physically"?
1 beancel 2018-05-27
Yes
1 bcat124 2018-05-27
Height is a big one too. "6' or less please don't talk to me" is common AF
1 andinuad 2018-05-27
I've seen a handful state something about height either about not caring about it or that they require a certain height.
I always found such statements superfluous since most should be aware of that most people have standards in regards to physical attraction even if those standards are not explicitly stated in the bio.
1 PossibleYoung 2018-05-27
"The entitlement. I am conventionally attractive and I was rejected by men I like many times, but I never blamed it on them or thought that they deny some right of mine or whatever"
1 TeaTree6 2018-05-27
Tits or gtfo
1 PossibleYoung 2018-05-27
Seriously. In college I was rejected plenty of times. Occasionally I thought the guy was a jerk, but usually "meh, his loss."
1 escapetheinceldom 2018-05-27
Because you only like Chads. Chads have some standards after all, and the fact that they rejected you means you're not as attractive as you think.
1 TeaTree6 2018-05-27
She clearly thinks she’s attractive to the point that Chads are perceived as jerks for turning her down. What a hole.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Nah dude, that's just what happens when you actually have confidence. lmfao
1 blackpillnormie 2018-05-27
Womyn can do no wrong amirite
1 beancel 2018-05-27
Ever had a man not only reject you, but also feel insulted and creeped out enough to warn his friends about you?
1 squintyt-rex 2018-05-27
You must have been creepy enough that she warned her friends.
1 beancel 2018-05-27
Yeah, and that's what everyone will assume, her friends will assume, and she will convince herself. In reality I was just ugly and stood out of line in conversation by mentioning a convention that was on in the weekend.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Highly, highly doubt THAT was what made her tell her friends you were creepy.
1 Backtakker 2018-05-27
A lot of people are shallow, and it's documented that people will apply negative traits to people they find unattractive, so it is entirely plausible that that is what happened.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Sure it's plausible. But based on when my female friends will talk about a guy being creepy, them being unattractive is usually not the whole story. Alternately, they've called plenty of decent to good looking guys creepy.
1 Backtakker 2018-05-27
I've had women straight up admit that they and their friends will consider ugly men creepy just for hitting on them. It happens.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Oh of course, I'm not saying it doesn't. That doesn't mean that every time a girl says you're creepy, you should just assume it's because you were ugly. It might be because you made her uncomfortable. Maybe you made her uncomfortable and you didnt even say anything wrong. You have to take it on a case by case basis.
1 Backtakker 2018-05-27
I'd say it's a pretty good assumption to make, particularly if you'd barely even had a chance to talk to her.
1 minoxidilcel 2018-05-27
pm me nudes
1 SaintKines 2018-05-27
Most of these guys don't view it as their right to get attractive pussy. They don't feel entitled to hot women. They are upset and venting because they've been consistently rejected by all women. Including women that should be their looksmatch and down. I've learned from lurking in this sub that most of these guys would he happy to get a chance with any girl even close to their looksmatch. Thats not entitlement, that's just what any normal person expects. I think these guys do exaggerate and generalize a bit but they also have first hand experience with a problem that's been going on for awhile and getting worse. Most people either don't know about these problems or trends or they just don't want to admit it.
1 DaiMiVsi4ko 2018-05-27
Because you went for the hottest guys that can have their pick of all women.
Turns out you are probably not nearly as good looking as you think. Otherwise you would not have been rejected.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
That's not what she's saying. She's saying that she's been rejected and didn't develop a raging victim complex. But I know it feels good for you to rage at a woman. Gee, I wonder why you're not having luck with dating. Like, you do realize the people on this sub are ACTUAL misogynists, right? Not just using an SJW buzzword, but like, these guys are actually the kinds of people who would be abusive if they actually did get a girl. Believe it or not, women have a sense of this and most will avoid men that they think will be controlling, manipulative, or just downright mean.
1 Rhodri_Kraakman 2018-05-27
Did you even read the rules on the sidebar before posting?
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Nope! ;)
1 raspectwahmen 2018-05-27
Another troll.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Not a troll. Trolls just say shit to get a rise out of people. Sorry to invade your safespace.
1 raspectwahmen 2018-05-27
lmao at this condescending troll shit
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
You weren't condescending at all when you asked if I read the rules.
1 raspectwahmen 2018-05-27
I never asked you that.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Oh true true my bad dude
1 CelibacyIsOverrated 2018-05-27
Lmao this isn't a safe space. We don't ban trolls and ignorant shitheads here. You know what is a safe space? Inceltears. They ban trolls and incels.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Oh that's lame. I apologized to raspectwahmen, I thought he was the op who asked if I read the sidebar rules. I wouldnt have been as cheeky if I noticed it was a different person.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
Big if true.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-27
Rejected as in, you asked them out or asked them to fuck you and they said no, or they didn't pursue you while you sat on your hands?
1 superman1145 2018-05-27
Very high chance you're not even a 5. Every woman thinks they're attractive
1 GymcellingisCope1 2018-05-27
I'm not entitled at all. But when women say that I'm the equivalent of rotten food, I am insulted.
1 shadowcat211 2018-05-27
You are conventionally atrractive You can get other men. We are ugly subhumans who can't get anyone. It's not quite the same.
1 Eduardobobys 2018-05-27
If you were rejected so many times, i guarantee you're not that attractive. Just the usual modern 4-6/10 woman who ranks herself higher that it is.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Not really because id bet some of the men are attractive. Having an attractive option doesnt equal a good option. Finding an actual partner is much more than looks.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Sounds like a pretty privileged thing to say.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
I thought the point was the blackpill. So if they have attractive options that they decline, blackpill doesnt make sense. Unless you are claiming there is a different point incels are trying to prove?
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Women always HAVE options, and more commonly they select UP rather than DOWN. I'm not pretending 100% of everyone acts like this all the time, but these are general patterns of behaviour across entire populations.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Ok that doesnt prove blackpill. Nobody denies women have more options than men. If you had your pick between selecting "up" or "down" what would you pick? I guarantee 99% of men are choosing the Instagram model over the overweight, awkward and goofy looking girl.
1 Spojinowski 2018-05-27
I think that's anyone for any opportunity when they're able to select something better than something worse. You guys though are like the bottom of the barrel and have no charm or any way of getting yourself a girl. Why don't you guys go get in a real life circle jerk and fuck each other?
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
It's a 50:50 split. Women aim for higher tier guys and ignore lower tier ones, as a goal.
Yeah, why doesn't a gay kid just turn straight a fuck a girl? Low IQ, and homophobic to boot.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Dude, everyone aims for higher tier. If you're actively looking for women who you arent actually interested in or attracted to, and you keep striking out, did you ever consider that was why? Also, demonstrating such a low level of self respect and confidence is not going to attract a single person.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Dude, this is incredibly generic and also completely wrong.
"Everyone aims for higher tier." No they fucking don't, I've never gone for a girl out of my league. The whole POINT is that women are more more likely to go UP and men are happy to go DOWN. This is how we get incels.
The most common object of affection wasn't the blonde bombshells, but the awkward, nerdy friend/classmate who wasn't super pretty but cute in her own way. Other 'cels have backed me up on this.
Have you ever considered the possibility that people behave differently online and in real life?
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Which women? Which men? You've never met a couple and wondered how on earth that shlub got with the girl he's with? Women will date down if they have poor self esteem, the same as men. All you're telling me is more men have poor self esteem, and I believe it.
Dude, just the way you framed that shows a part of the problem. You try to break people down into tiers and who has more value. Most people dont think like that, and if they do they're fucked up. You should NOT be thinking like that. The awkward, nerdy friend might have been looking for someone who validated them, sure, but thats immature and it isnt reflective of you or women on the whole.
Yes, and have you ever considered the possibility that your behavior online is more closely related to your behavior in real life than you realize?
Okay, sure. Do you know how many men will reject a confident woman, though?
Yeah, okay, so youre not a basket case. Stop comparing yourself to people you know. Thats not going to work. People you know, like all people, are mostly fucked up. Those people who go on whiny rants are probably better at flirting than you are. They're probably better at being sweet to girls than you are. Or maybe the girls theyre with are fucked up. Maybe they got with their gf because she was drunk and rather than feeling raped she actually just starts dating the dude. There are just so many reasons and trying to single them out is silly. I get that ugly people dont have as easy a time dating, but the millions upon millions of people who are probably uglier than you are who have gfs contradict the assertion that being ugly is a death sentence. Being anxious, neurotic, clingy, ugly, insecure, and demonstrating so sexual confidence is what will tank your dating career. Ever heard of the youtuber boogie2988? Dude was 500 pounds, red in the face, and not a particularly good looking guy. Still found a wife.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
No...we're talking about averages across populations. Not anecdotes. Saying, "I know some women who are stronger than some men," is irrelevant to the overall reality that men are stronger than women. This isn't just an incel theory, by the way. Far from it.
No, stop fucking gaslighting, people do this ALL the time. Lookism is real. Girls rate each other all the time, the fuck?
You can find exceptions for everything but it doesn't change the overall majority trend. Insecurity is such a fucking meme with you, you're careful to bring it up every two seconds.
How? I've never expressed my beliefs. Women can't sense shit over Tinder either, you idiot. If I were good looking it wouldn't matter anyway.
Not nearly as much, they'll gladly accept her offer lmfao. You don't see men complaining about getting hit on.
Boogie found a wife and then got divorced. He has a massive YouTube channel.
Here's the net of it, my man. Men have a much harder time than their female looksmatch in dating. Not only are woman generally more lookist, but weakness is also punished more. In both looks and personality, it's an uphill battle. Women can be uglier, a thousand times more insecure and clingy and they can get with guys well above her. There is a very real and massive disparity between men and women on this.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
I'm done. I'm sorry but I'm not reading anything passed that. Have a good day dude.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
God, at least SJWs actually think they're making the world a better place or something. This is the worst of all their shit but it's just because you're sexually frustrated. I want to show some compassion but god damn do you people make it hard. Peace out dude, enjoy stewing in your misery. I have errands to run and I've let this take way more time from my day than I should have.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Lmao you're on their side with this one.
I'm not stewing in misery. I've tried Tinder, I've asked girls out in college. Most of my friends are girls.
I went through a bisexual phase when I was younger.
It is an objective fucking fact that I would hang had a VASTLY easier time of it with gay guys, both sexually and romantically.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Dude reading this just makes me feel too bad to not respond. I'm sorry that you feel that low about yourself, but it's just not true. There are women out there, beautiful, ugly, crazy, intelligent, who spend their ENTIRE LIVES being a victim. Who grow up with a fucked up sense of romance, who go their whole lives with male attention, and its a direct impediment to their happiness and success. Who would be better off alone. Make something of yourself, and someone WILL come along. That is simply your only option. Calling the world "lookist" will not change a damn thing. Posting on this forum wont change a damn thing, it's just a waste of your time. Make something of yourself and someone will come. It's just that simple. It's hard, it's hard as fuck, but it's simple. And if you make something of yourself, and no one comes along, that doesnt make you less of a human. It doesnt make you less valuable.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Posting on this forum is a coping mechanism. Hence the common meme "cope." Keeping it all bottled up feels even worse.
Well, when you have a fundamental human experience...look, honestly, if someone does come along, I won't turn her away, unless she's legit trying to use me. But it is frustrating to be playing with a terrible hand against a stacked deck and no-one wants to openly acknowledge it.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Do you feel that that is the case? My own experience has been that society as a whole acknowledges that people with good looks, money, and power find more dating success. What do you think you'd want to see change about the world that would make you feel a little better? Also, you don't think that some of the ideas here and in other incel groups dont actually promote some really bad attitudes and ideas, things that actually are keeping people from finding someone?
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Average and ugly guys have it a lot harder than average and ugly girls. The struggles of lower tier men are mocked or overlooked or ridiculed.
People can be less racist, maybe they can be less lookist. There isn't any one solution peddled here. Some want a traditional consecutive society (right-wing) others lean more to what I said (left-wing) a significant amount have given up entirely.
There are always extremists on every subreddit. The Donald, Late Stage Capitalism, etc. but you have blackpilled normies and chads too. I think there are user-definitely toxic aspects, but you can't get rid of them all.
1 Redandwhitedishtowel 2018-05-27
Women have choices, men have chances. The source of incels anger is that fact; it's a sellers market and women are the ones selling, they don't have to look down and so the men on the bottom tier (incels) are invisible to them.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
I can understand the anger. That said, being angry is useless. You need to let go of that. Easier said than done, but that needs to be the call to action if you actually want to be happier. If you invest in yourself- in hobbies, skills, and talents, you increase your value. If you present yourself with confidence, if you let go of the insecurity and anger, and if you make something of yourself, there will be perfectly healthy women who will want that in their lives. It might be something you have to wait for, but it will happen. It just will, and having hope is free, it doesn't cost you anything to believe it will happen, even if it doesn't.
1 lonewolf-20000 2018-05-27
why do you browse this sub?
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Wasting time and trying to help people when incels let me.
1 lonewolf-20000 2018-05-27
in what way can you help an incel like me?
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Idk, depends on a bunch of factors. I cant give you much except pretty general advice and platitudes without getting to know you first.
1 lonewolf-20000 2018-05-27
ugly is my factor.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
It might be but as I've found with other incels, it's common to use ugliness as a blanket excuse for all social failures. While I wont deny being ugly limits your options, it doesnt make romance entirely impossible.
Also, I'd be surprised if you really are as ugly as you think.
1 GeneticCleansing 2018-05-27
The only real way you could help is by assuring/proving to incels that a statistically significant amount of women aren't very shallow, want a real/compassionate relationship, loyal, and monogamous, while also proving that betabuxx/alphafuxx isn't legitimiate. That's the only real way that you can "help" IMHO.
I don't speak for all incels, of course, but those things I've listed are all that I've ever really wanted.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
I can understand that and frankly your goal shouldn't be to hookup.
The problem with most incels is they are too young. Honestly younger women are significantly more superficial. Most incels here struggle finding non-superficial women cause women roughly from adolescence to 25-26ish arent looking for serious relationships. They might be looking for a relationship but not something for the rest of their lives.
Which leads perfectly into the silly beta thing. Finding love later in life doesnt mean you are settling for a blown out woman or something as incels would have you think. It means women are looking for more than just someone to have sex with. They want someone who is loyal and will take care of her and any potential children as well as she'd take care of you. As well as looking for someone who they enjoy just spending time with because you'll be spending a lot together when you are married.
I probably cant talk you off of it with general statements like that but that really is how I see it.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
This is fairly close to the blackpill, the only difference being interpreting the motives of women later on.
They just settle because they need someone to provide for them. Of course, there are unicorns, but we're talking about patterns if behaviour over entire populations, as I say many times here.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
A lot of women dont want to be provided for, for starters. Also, what do you mean by "settle"? It sounds like you are just extremely insecure and anxious that if you do find love, you wont be her first choice and shell secretly desire other men. Well guess what bud, that might be the case. Humans are sexual creatures and its almost impossible for them to only have any sexual desire for one human forever. You cant let that spin you out. Whats important is you find someone who wont act on those feelings. Obviously you wont be her first choice. She wont be yours, either. But the important thing is finding someone who still loves you for you, enough that they commit themselves to you, and vice versa.
"Prime of your life" is some bullshit. Theres no such thing. Your physical prime, in terms of raw energy and ambition? Sure. But you can still have plenty of energy and ambition for your entire life. You're agonizing over an imagination that IF you were dating and having sex NOW it would be better than waiting until you're older, but the reality is love is love and sex is sex, no matter what age you are.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Except it's a fact that women desire the ability to provide and financial security more than men do in a partner. I'm talking about average behaviours over entire populations. People are influenced by their sex, men and women have different brains.
Maybe if you keep saying "inseure," you'll magically convince me of the errors of my ways.
"She won't be your first choice." Lmao what is this. Odd are she'll be my first or second WOMAN at all. Whereas I'll be one of many men. Women tend to aim up whereas men are happy to aim wherever.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
There is nothing innately biological about that and its a declining phenomena. Socially, women were kept out of the bulk of the jobs market until the 1970s. So yes, a lot of women are looking for someone to take care of them, but economics are changing. A man cant take care of a wife and kids on his own like he used to anymore, and many women dont WANT to be under their husbands financial control.
More insecurity. You have to change that, because its unattractive to women and men too. It doesnt matter if shes your first and you're her hundredth. If she chooses you accept it for what it is and move on. Or obsess over the difference in experiences and ruin it. I dont know why youd want to ruin it, though.
Speak for yourself.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Yes there is lmao. Men are physically stronger and more capable, so historically were expected to shoulder the burdens of providing. Women aren't suddenly clamouring to take care of their men. It's still far more the other way around.
You're missing the point. The disparity indicates just how much settling there is. They are literally settling for someone they wouldn't have soared a second glance for year ago, how can you not see this?
"Speak for yourself." I don't know what this means. If I see a fat or ugly girl, should I reject them? Be more discriminating? What are you trying to say here?
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Holy shit dude, you call women superficial but look at yourself. If the girl has similar interests, likes your personality, and is someone who helps you grow as an individual, than thats what you should be looking for. Ugly, fat, beautiful, whatever the fuck. You're participating in the same shitty, superficial dating game as the chads and staceys and thats why you're miserable. Stop playing the game. Stop judging peoples value based on looks and money. I dont care if a lot of other people do it, theyre wrong and you need to stop if you want happiness. Because ya, youre probably not hot and you dont have a lot of money. If you're 4'9 stop trying to play basketball or if you decide to continue stop whining that the men 2 feet taller than you have an advantage. No ones making play basketball. No ones making you participate in the superficial hookup or dating culture that has prevailed in the west. thats the last im going to say because i came into this thread due to one post from somewhere else and ive sunken an hour of my time into arguing with people who basically want me to acknowledge theyre losers and the world hates them. Congratulations, whats your prize for winning that argument? The world hates you and you're a loser. Damn, that sucks, maybe try taking a different perspective and you'll find some happiness. Stop using shitty, shallow people's criteria and values to judge yourself.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Dude, you're missing the point by a mile. I've found overweight and...sigh girls who aren't model tier sexually attractive. And if I like their personality, even better.
You're acting like standards of attraction literally don't exist, that ugly people don't exist, that beautiful people don't exist. Please. There's a difference between judging based on looks and acknowledging that looks are a thing.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
I just dont understand what separates you guys from the millions of ugly people who arent incel. I dont see how you can believe that you'll never find love, assuming you have love in your heart and know how to carry yourself with confidence. It just doesnt make sense to me, it seems like... sorry to say it again... but insecurity, and anxiety, driving your perceptions. I understand needing a place to vent, but I think this place, and especially the old incels group, went above and beyond people venting frustrations and helping each other. It seems like its just keeping you all down in a very negative perspective of the world that wont actually help you. The same as a forum of black people saying that they are x because they are black, instead of actually trying to discuss how to overcome x in spite of their blackness. Does that make sense?
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
You say "millions" but the world has 7.5 billion people.
I don't think it's literally impossible, just that the odds are very much against me, and it's a crock of shit that things are like this and people refuse to acknowledge it, or only covertly do so but deny it when asked bluntly.
Suffering in silence is fucking shit. Just accepting everything and all the unfairness like a sociopathic Zen master/Stoic philosopher is even worse because you try to not care but it's fucking impossible.
Society ridicules lower tier men and refuses to speak of our struggles. No wonder there is resentment. We have nowhere else to go.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Thats fair. It's a tough one because I feel like if society does acknowledge that there is a class of white men who are experiencing this, the next question becomes what do we do about it? Personally, I think legalizing sex work is a good step. I think the problem is a lot of people hear this community and what they get is "we are entitled to sex. women should be forced to have sex with us." I totally get that youre not saying that, but its what people hear. Based on some of the more jaded posts youll see on these places, can you understand why a lot of people would get that impression?
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
It ain't just white men, far from it. How long have you been here? Asians and Indians are disproportionately represented. This sub is often characterised as related to the alt-right. Lmao. Nothing could be further from the truth.
People say that because they can't think of anything else and they're angry at women. Personally I hope lookism will fade a little (not entirely) but enough.
Legalising prostitution may be part of it but probs won't solve it. After all, they'll be gritting their teeth all the way. Maybe sex robots. Who knows.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
I said some women are superficial, specifically younger women. Blackpill says all women are completely superficial, full stop. So pretty different imo.
I just explained how this isnt settling. So just read the comment you replied to lol.
You dont have to wait, im just making the point there is hope on the horizon. Go improve yourself and get out there.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Women place less importance on looks and gradually more on ability to provide when looking for a long term partner as they get older. That's not becoming less superficial.
1 throwawayirl3 2018-05-27
"Just LDAR until they need them buxx, bro"
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
There are a few types of non-natives her. First are the basic normies who have no idea what's going on. Second are the dedicated IT users who just pick fights. Then you have another group of women who aren't IT but usually feminist and they pick fights.
Finally you have a small group of women and men who try to at least make a dialogue, however misguided or incorrect. I think MagratM is the most known example.
1 is_secretly_a_cat 2018-05-27
Y'all really wonder why women won't date you or sleep with you? Have you looked at your attitudes recently?
Sex is great, I love sex, but I also enjoy being in relationships with gasp people who respect me and don't think I A) owe them sex B) am at fault for why they don't have sex and C) must be stupid for not dating a "nice guy TM" who hits the above points
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1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Looks like my online behaviour is why I can't get laid. Pack it up boys.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Have you ever considered their horrible behavior is why they get laid? If you commit yourself to manipulating and bullying a woman into sex, you could probably do it too. You guys are just so insecure you'll look at ANYONE havin
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
I'm caught in a trap where some normies say being sexist is why I'm incel and others say it helps. I cannot win lmao.
My friend openly acts like an edgelord and is the embodiment of a 4channer but he's good-looking so he gets girls. Any average or ugly guy cats like that, he's a creep. What you just said is a great way of getting labeled a creep.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Okay, so YOU said YOU don't want to manipulate or control women, right? Other men are okay with doing that, or don't realize that they're doing it. That's why they have girls and you don't. That's not a contradiction. The problem is you don't want to be an asshole, but you think being an asshole is how you'll get girls. Be an asshole, don't be an asshole, it doesn't really matter. The thing about assholes isnt that they get girls by being assholes, it's that theyre good at looking for girls who will be treated like shit. You dont want to be an asshole, so you're not good at that. You're looking for healthier women, so you'll be labeled a creep for acting the same way someone else might act, only that guys looking for women who basically want to recreate previous abusive situations whether they know it or not.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
And yet, better looking guys ALWAYS magically find girls who want to be treated like shit. But somehow guys in this subreddit will not. Even with low self esteem, those same girls will sleep with the attractive bad boys, not the asshole loser.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Yes. A lot of women with low self esteem don't believe they deserve to be treated well. They try to validate their self worth by sleeping with hot men, just like a lot of the "chads" out there who actually feel empty inside even though they can bag a dime. Better looking guys do not always date girls who want to be treated like shit.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Yeah, and you don't see how bottom of the a barrel mental car crashes having far less difficulty compared to us doesn't validate even a part of our thesis? Our version is the low self esteem guy who literally has to pay women to have sex with him.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
So what? Would you rather be a mental car crash? I dont get what you want. You just acknowledged yourself, there are a lot of fucked up people who are in relationships that they shouldnt be in. You shouldnt be envious of that lmfao Being able to be alone means you have some depth of character and spirit. Our society glorifies romance to a disgusting degree. Make something of yourself, and someone will PROBABLY come along. You arent entitled to that, though. No one is. If you died an 80 year virgin, that doesnt make you any less valuable of a human than anyone else.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
These fucked up people can also attract good people. Essentially, they have choices. We are far more limited. You can date good and bad people if you attract them. If you haven't been able to attract anyone...well, nothing. Nothing at all.
It only has depth of character if you make the choice. I don't drink alcohol. But I've barely ever tried to. I can't boast about having self control about drinking or smoking if I've never tried them.
Look, I'm sorry for snapping, I don't hold genuine ill will towards you. But opting out is one thing. Being never in the game at all is another.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
I understand. Believe me dude, I'm not good with women at all. I don't have a very happy track record. I've never had a girlfriend, except for a 3 month stint with an asexual in high school. LOL I've had sex once and it was with a genuine, actual sociopath. I've had other opportunities, to be fair, but I think we can both relate to each other in that we havent had the "normal" sexual/romantic careers that we see among peers or in the media. I think its hard when you aren't "in the game" at all to imagine what you're missing, but, you really arent missing as much as you think you are. I promise. I know that it sucks and youll feel bad no matter what, but try not to make yourself feel WORSE, you know what I mean? It WILL happen for you dude. Just keep investing in yourself. Your health, your skills, your social skills, your confidence. If you do those things, it will happen, it absolutely will.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
I don't doubt that people can have absolute train-wreck sex lives. But that still means broadly having a sex life, and if you have that, the chance of a GOOD sex life is there.
I'll see.
1 BF8211 2018-05-27
Are you really advising us to emotionally abuse a woman into sex, and then calling us pussies because we're too insecure to do it? Stop being a shithead.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
No! Of course not! You're making the right decision by NOT doing those things. But you keep comparing yourselves to men who do those things. I'm pointing it out to show you guys that you're comparing apples to oranges. IF you were willing to look for abused women and be shitty to them, you could find yourself a girl. But you're not, and thats good, so stop comparing yourselves to men who do that. Don't abuse anyone.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-27
You're making progress but you are failing to understand one key truth.
A woman, consciously or not, concludes whether or not they are sexually attracted to you in just a few moments after meeting you. If she is, virtually all behaviour except for the most egregious won't change this fact. If she is not, literally no amount of awesome behaviour will change this fact.
The manipulative asshole doesn't get women via manipulation and dickish behaviour as much as he exploits the fact that a woman already wants to fuck him.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
I agree, women will generally know pretty quickly if they're attracted to you or not. That being said, women, like men, have a wide sexuality. There are many people that a woman might generically have sex with, but it's the personality that decides whether she actually does it or not. On the other hand, I think you're also downplaying how often someone becomes endeared to someone else. I dont think its a binary "yes/no" situation. I think that there are plenty of women who might not find someone particularly attractive, but after getting to know them, find themselves becoming more attracted. Like, lets use the example of the abused woman. She's been abused by her father, or brother, or whatever. She's used to being treated like shit, and there are even some abused women who dont respect a man that wont "put them in line" by hitting them. I'm sure she sees many men that she would fuck, but if the man doesnt "assert" himself with her, she'll lose interest and not want to fuck him. Alternately, there may be a man who "asserts" himself and wins her affection. Its why groady ass biker dudes can still get girls; it's their behavior, not their looks. Ultimately, I think that attraction is really complicated and I see most of the comments here reducing it to "women just want hot/rich dudes!!" or "women dont want ugly/poor men!!" And I dont think either of those statements are true.
1 justforlulzandkeks 2018-05-27
?????????
They're privileged to the point they can turn down an attractive option in favor of a better attractive option because they can afford it. What about this doesn't make sense?
1 DrillWormBazookaMan 2018-05-27
Please I wish to understand, how do you intent on "helping" incels? What's you're ultimate goal, to get them out of the ideology?
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
By helping them realize the things they need to improve on and providing a female perspective to any social situations. As I said its entirely situational, some of you just need a confidence boost and assurances about appearance from a woman. While others, may need more extreme measures like getting diagnosed by a professional. I guess the ultimate success for me would be helping someone find romance. If that means removing you from incel ideology then I guess so.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Thing is: if you can't attract anyone sexually, romance is off the table.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
That's not even true, though. If you have no confidence, no finesse, and are completely unwilling to learn from your mistakes, that takes romance off the table. There are ugly men, crippled men, and even autistic men who find romance. How do you think that happened?
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
It literally is. Romance is built on sexual attraction, otherwise r/deadbedrooms wouldn't exist. Unless you're asexual. I'm not, and neither are most people.
Money, status, luck. I didn't claim 100 of all women act like this all the time. If you think that's me moving the goalposts, look at my comment history, I've said this for a while.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Dead bedrooms exists because having sex with the same person for years on end can get boring. Those people are still interested in their relationship or else they wouldn't be seeking help.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
The point is that most romantic relationships are built on a sexual core.
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
I don't see the advantage in thinking of dating and romance in terms of averages and majorities. You're a unique individual who brings his own strengths and weaknesses forward.
1 DrillWormBazookaMan 2018-05-27
Tell me, don't "normal" people need to improve on a lot of things too? Why not go after a bigger problem, the massive number of people enabling incels by confirming their biases using over generalizing language, not fully understanding their position, and writing off their concerns as the whinings of a lonely virgin with a shit personality? (Without even knowing them)
Also a female perspective isn't going to help them, I'm sorry but it just isn't. They automatically feel you are privileged, you have "power" when it comes to sexuality and relationships just based on being female. They look at your advice as being condescending because in their eyes, there's no possible way you could understand what they are going through even if you think you do. And as a bisexual man I agree with them, relationship dynamics are different between the sexes and how you go about obtaining a relationship isn't the same way necessarily that a man would.
People who spew vitriol to someone like an Incel vastly outnumber the amount of incels that exist. Wouldn't you say a big problem is the way the incels have been treated by others? By "normal" people? Misogyny and hatred are learned behaviors, for those that are truly Incel it's not surprising they'd turn to vitriol, hatred and bitterness to attempt to get their point across when any attempt at actual discourse is again written off as the whining of virgins. You're right it is entirely situational, but I'd say a much bigger issue and I would argue a major underlying cause of young men being sucked into inceldom are due to the lack of support network these men have and the "Normie's" who only fuel the fire.
I feel if you want to help incels you should be out correcting the misinformation spread about them and get "Normie's" to realize they have some valid points and not every Incel is engaging in the idiotic toxicity that is oh so prevalent on this sub.
And to turn this onto the incels, if you want your points to be heard and "Normie's" to consider your position you need to condemn those that spew that idiotic vitriol which merely poisons the well and further stains your image. You have valid points to make, make them with good, reasonable discourse not this "cope or rope" shit.
It's truly not that easy. Even if they do need a confidence boost which I would say you're correct in that a livid them do, you're simply not going to achieve it from a few random discussions on reddit. Maybe if they could post their pic and have an army of females flocking to them giving them likes and support, sure, but that's not what happens when you're a man unless you are exceptionally attractive.
Yeah that would be most ideal for everyone I would imagine.
Well good luck in your endeavor, I don't see it happening but I at the very least applaud your attempt.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
That last paragraph of the first statenent is spot on and something I've tried to say here for a long time. I just get told incels dont want their help and to fuck off. Which is a bad stance to take but what can you do with that?
I disagree though that the best way to help is go after "normies". Let's just say hypothetically I could go to incel tears and convince 5 thousand people all incels are just misunderstood but good people. That would be an amazing feat and honestly is probably not even remotely possible but for the sake of arguement I'll take it there. The chances any incel interacts with one of those 5 thousand people in their real life is basically zero. So, it's not helping anyone find romance. Maybe those 5 thousand people would stop harassing incels online but people harassing them online isnt what's ruining romance lives. Also, my help would just be a drop in the ocean in terms of fixing problems because its not stopping harassment completley. That's not even mentioning the fact that as I mentioned beforr those 5 thousand people's empathy would largely fall on deaf ears because incels mostly arent interested in their empathy.
Instead, I try to have a larger impact on the lives of those who seek out help. Even if I just push someone to start working out or going to seek professional help and that's it, it would have a big impact on that person. Most importantly this is something that is affecting real life which is where relationships are made.
The other problem being I hate IT. First making fun of a bunch of disadvantaged people is horrific. The other issue I have is its just an echo chamber. I dont appreciate reading a bunch of people telling each other how amazing they are for having the same opinion. Say what you want about incels but they all have unique world views. Incels also have no problem shitting on eachother if they disagree. Incels might hate on me but atleast I understand why they do. IT just hate for the sake of hate and feeling better about themselves. Which in my eyes is pathetic and have no interest spending significant time there.
I said that confidence and assurances part because I've had guys who claimed to be incels. However, upon showing me their pic they ended up being pretty cute and just had no confidence approaching women. Social anxiety is a bitch but sometimes what you need to get over it is assurances that you arent ugly and it's in your head. Trust me, its happened more than once and everytime it really was that easy. They thanked me and told me their biggest problem is just not getting themselves out there enough.
Ya lots of people here probably need mental help. Which is why I hate these posts calling mental help brainwashing. It could do a lot of good for a solid population of this sub.
I haven't achieved that goal. I've had people thank me and say I helped them a lot. Unfortunately, finding love is a long and can be a somewhat brutal road.
1 CommonMisspellingBot 2018-05-27
Hey, mary1j, just a quick heads-up:
arguement is actually spelled argument. You can remember it by no e after the u.
Have a nice day!
The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
1 DrillWormBazookaMan 2018-05-27
I'm not saying it's the best way there is no "best" way but I simply feel your time would be better spent dealing with "Normie's" especially since based on some of the interactions I've seen you engage in you seem to have a difficult time discerning who is a troll and who isn't.
I wouldn't even say that's true. I'm not saying incels are poor lost lambs being set upon by the wolves there are plenty of idiotic pieces of shit whom identify as an incel but if you want to help the incels whom could still be reached you should try pushing the idea of tolerance and the consideration of their ideas with those whom may actually listen to you, the "Normie's." This is a big reason why I'm even engaging with you. I hate bad arguments and I feel your heart may be in the right place I just think you're going about it wrong.
You simply cannot help someone find romance. They have to do it on their own, you can nudge them in the right direction but in order to do that you have to know them on a far more personal level. This will not be achieved by randomly disagreeing with incels on reddit nor would it be achieved by one person.
But what if instead you can convince those 5 thousand people to actually listen to what a rational Incel has to say. Yes I know that seems rare but I've talked to them, they do exist. What if you could get those 5 thousand people to realize they are engaging in the exact same kind of fallacies they accuse incels of. Over generalizing, assuming, straw manning or any number of others. What if, in turn, those 5 thousand people do come across someone like an Incel in real life. Perhaps they would be better equipped to understand and possibly help instead of immediately throwing out labels and summing the persons character up in five seconds.
Maybe those 5 thousand people would stop harassing incels online but people harassing them online isnt what's ruining romance lives.
I agree, it's a symptom of a much bigger problem.
You can never stop harassment completely, but your "help" is already a drop in the ocean especially towards someone who doesn't want to hear it from you. A better way to get through to them is for them to see you clearing up misinformation that a "Normie" may present, this shows you have a better understanding of their position and actually value logic and truth, not emotional bullocks with no real substance.
There's a reason for that, they haven't been shown empathy throughout most of their lives. We're talking about people who may have social autism, birth defects or terrible communication skills. When they get bullied because of this throughout their lives these wounds cut very deep by comparison of say you or I whom may have a better chance at shrugging off said bullying. Of course I feel many incels are massive hypocrites when they complain about bullying yet will bully someone like u/board_gaming but I digress.
How many have?
I don't disagree but I feel again you may form a better understanding for yourself by engaging with those whom just do nothing but generalize incels, ultimately being able to relate to them easier and perhaps they may be more willing to approach you.
You should be telling this to the inceltears members whom come to this subreddit. I do it all the time, looking through my post history you may see a lot of Incel defending but don't get me wrong, I have very strong feelings towards the incels themselves and I feel many of them are idiots or misguided. But again, the cycle will continue if we let communities like inceltears remain non-accountable (for lack of a better word?) We have to change as a society and recognize male disadvantages. Those on inceltears or the average random whom just happened upon incels either flat out ignore male issues or severely downplay them. That attitude needs to switch if you want any hope at stopping young men from believing the toxic shit you so desperately want them to not believe.
Excuse me while I go to the confidence store and pick up a confidence kit.
I wonder why their confidence has been drained to next to non existent? It couldn't be the terrible experiences they had with "Normie's" or the constant rejections/insults they receive due to something trivial that they cannot change like Penis size or height. We as a society need to change our outlook on what it takes to be a "man." Man up is a sexist phrase still largely prevalent within feminist left wing circles and until we recognize this hypocrisy and have an adult discussion about it you aren't going to see any decline in incels or "Manosphere" type people.
I agree, but this is something they need to realize themselves and simply won't realize it via reddit. While I try to refrain from anecdotes I was at one point in my life a cringey niceguyTM neckbeard whom thought I could do no wrong. I believed most if not all women were incredibly superficial and that I was the nice guy whom wouldn't treat them like shit. But after several rejections and taking a good, long look at myself I realized how fucking idiotic I was being. I would lash out at rejection, call people whores for it and all sorts of shit. When I took that long hard look at myself I realized I was the asshole, I was the douchebag manipulator and I was the physical embodiment of everything I proclaimed to hate.
These types of people genuinely have a difficult if not impossible time coming to grips with this reality. For many it needs to hit them like a train and they may not recover from it. But for most this incredible lack of self awareness cannot be broken without a lot of time and devotion from the person themselves. You cannot force an addict for example to stop using they need to see it for themselves. Anything else is just white noise to them.
How do you know it's genuine and how do you know they went on to progress after your discussions? If that's true then great, I hope they saw the light and moved on. I'm just saying you're dealing with the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
If you want to get rid of a shit snake, you cut it off at the shit head.
I understand why they say it and their problems with it. I myself have had terrible experiences with the mental health system and to be honest it was mostly due to it being very female focused. When I was in rehab, ALL of the counselors were women. As I look now to find a counselor in my area nearly all of them are women and the few men I have found are either too far or don't take my insurance but again I digress. My point is it's understandable why they may be standoffish towards the mental health system and it goes back to that acceptance and tolerance of male issues again.
1 CommonMisspellingBot 2018-05-27
Hey, DrillWormBazookaMan, just a quick heads-up:
arguement is actually spelled argument. You can remember it by no e after the u.
Have a nice day!
The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-27
You female perspective you provide isn't useful because you are not attempting to extract the fundamental truth of a behaviour or a situation, you just seek to establish and re-establish the narrative you're married to.
If you aren't willing to admit you and virtually all women are shockingly more shallow than they claim to be, at the very least, then you are in denial and the perspective you offer is a delusion.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
I just think women's perspective is useful because men often misinterpret things. A suprising amount tbh, and those misinterprstations can lead to problems. The whole fundamental truth and all that nonsense is silly. My narrative is to spread love and hapiness, other than that I'm not tied to anything. I can be talked back off anything with good information. I'm just offering my perspective, if you think that's worthless then dont ask for it and ignore me.
I said my goal was to help people find romance. I dont really care about getting someone off the ideology. If you can find love and whole heartedly believe blackpill then more power to you.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-27
You literally said removing someone from incel idealogy aligns with what you want to do. Were you lying then or are you lying now? Why do you not care about adhering to a truth?
YOU continue to misunderstand. You aren't actually giving a women's perspective when you try because you are more interested in maintaining this helpful love and romance narrative than you are in uncovering and providing useful truths and ideas. Every time you write you have no marriage to anything other than what works for you in that dialogue, think 1984 by Orwell.
I'm honestly offended that you wrote this as if I will instantly believe that claim. Lip service is unnecessary, prove that you really believe that by arguing ideas and truths not just saying absolutely meaningless nothings.
You want to help people find romance when you legitimately have no idea what you even believe or know because you never examined any of it with any kind of seriousness. You just talk and write and reinforce your delusions so righteously.
You will probably characterize this response as an angry incel or someone lashing out in order to invalidate it rather than self reflect and realize what I'm saying applies. I'm not an incel, and I'm not lashing out, you are just disrespectful, flippant, irreverent
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
No, in the first message I was saying if that requires getting them off the ideology then I'd do it. I frankly dont care if you believe the incel ideology or not. It does nothing for me convincing you the ideology is right or wrong. If it benefits you then I'd suggest it.
This contradicts itself. You say I cant offer help because I'm too closely tied to a narrative. Then you say I dont have a narrative and just say what's useful to me. So which is it? Again, I'm offering my help which some people have found very useful. If you think I cant help you then ignore me.
Tell me specifically what you want to argue on. I have stances but I'm open to them changing. Which again first mean I didn't have beliefs I've thought out unlike what you said. Which is extremely disrespectful to just assume even if you have read everyone of my comments. I dont think you are lashing out, I just dony understand why you feel you can make all these assumptions about me. I also dont understand how I have been disrespectful or flippant. I've been nothing but respectful in the face of tons of disrespect. There are maybe things you could say about me based on my comments being disrespectful is 100% not one of them.
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Why did you delete the whole comment and write something entirely different? Lol I'll make a new response later I guess
1 mary1j 2018-05-27
Whyd you rewrite the whole message?
1 Dingus_Incel 2018-05-27
A long time ago someone on IT accidentally revealed this. She said something like "Women having a lot of male options for dating is like having a lot of rotten food in the fridge , non of it is actually good". That was a very rough paraphrase buts its the same idea.
1 completeutterbuffoon 2018-05-27
A starving man who eats rotten food gets nauseous.
A starving man who eats nothing gets death.
Not that femoids think of ugly males as living organisms that can die. We're just inconvenient meat furniture with legs.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
If we are to continue with this metaphor, then you can die if you eat spoiled food, so it kinda depends.
1 completeutterbuffoon 2018-05-27
Depends on how far the food has gone, but the point is moot when the foid's pantry is so full she'll turn her nose up at anything past its sell-by date.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
Playing devil's advocate here: it's not really bad. We all want to best for ourselves. It's the hypocrisy that comes with the self-interest, would you agree?
1 completeutterbuffoon 2018-05-27
I don't disagree. The problem is the game, not the players.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-27
Fair enough.
1 GrinchBear 2018-05-27
Good to them, personal preferences are a thing we all have
1 colorsofmylove 2018-05-27
What about men who say that?
1 justforlulzandkeks 2018-05-27
They are vastly outnumbered by their female equivalents
1 colorsofmylove 2018-05-27
Yeah but what does it say about them though
Honest question here, I just want you guys' point of view on that
1 DaiMiVsi4ko 2018-05-27
Men seldomly do that. It's 99% of women who have these ridicolous requirements.
1 justforlulzandkeks 2018-05-27
That they are chads
1 GymcellingisCope1 2018-05-27
I never knew a guy who said that, not even online. Men can't be that picky.
1 nejigsk 2018-05-27
none of them are incelibate because they are attractive. However <average women are able to say that because of the huge discrepancy in the dating market.
1 LiquidDreamtime 2018-05-27
Proving that, they too, are delusional choosy-beggars who lack awareness.
1 Plague-Lord 2018-05-27
Thats the status of /u/board_gaming, claims to be unable to find a date/boyfriend yet is female and not obese so is clearly lying and just holding high standards.
1 Board_Gaming 2018-05-27
I don't lie.
1 thatzombieoverthere 2018-05-27
Thots always lie.
1 Board_Gaming 2018-05-27
Well since I'm but a "thot", I don't lie.
1 suicidal-pothead 2018-05-27
Hi
1 thatzombieoverthere 2018-05-27
Who the fuck made you mod?
1 Board_Gaming 2018-05-27
Another mod who's no longer on the sub.
1 itsbeenover 2018-05-27
who you killed, lol RIP AA - he roped, made a suicide thread, and no one cared lol @ that guy
1 thatzombieoverthere 2018-05-27
cucked in death
1 itsbeenover 2018-05-27
killed by the same foid he promoted to mod, it really was over for that guy
1 subhumanforever 2018-05-27
Lmfao. Dude literally fucking killed himself and was the guy who made that fat bitch mod. Maybe he killed himself because he realized what a horrible mistake that was?
1 itsbeenover 2018-05-27
Lmaoo the levels of it being over for that guy is something i might never fathom
1 Yemanthing 2018-05-27
I'm literally right here.
1 Infinite_Return 2018-05-27
high IQ post..too much blackpill in this thread
1 Mr_StealYoGirl69 2018-05-27
JFL at affrimative action
1 vikkinguyen 2018-05-27
White women say this, because they can't get White men anymore. Most White women settle for non-White men, because they are losers.
White men don't desire White women as much as they desire us Asian girls. See it everyday on campus and in the city.
1 Murmaider13 2018-05-27
Guys want pussy, girls know they have something you want. Stop crying about your pussy pass and lower your expectations.
1 andinuad 2018-05-27
Does any male or female write "I require that you look sufficiently good physically"?
1 lonewolf-20000 2018-05-27
ugly is my factor.
1 YallBot1000 2018-05-27
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1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Looks like my online behaviour is why I can't get laid. Pack it up boys.
1 GeneticCleansing 2018-05-27
The only real way you could help is by assuring/proving to incels that a statistically significant amount of women aren't very shallow, want a real/compassionate relationship, loyal, and monogamous, while also proving that betabuxx/alphafuxx isn't legitimiate. That's the only real way that you can "help" IMHO.
I don't speak for all incels, of course, but those things I've listed are all that I've ever really wanted.
1 squintyt-rex 2018-05-27
You must have been creepy enough that she warned her friends.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
It's a 50:50 split. Women aim for higher tier guys and ignore lower tier ones, as a goal.
Yeah, why doesn't a gay kid just turn straight a fuck a girl? Low IQ, and homophobic to boot.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
This is fairly close to the blackpill, the only difference being interpreting the motives of women later on.
They just settle because they need someone to provide for them. Of course, there are unicorns, but we're talking about patterns if behaviour over entire populations, as I say many times here.
1 Salusa-Secundus 2018-05-27
Thing is: if you can't attract anyone sexually, romance is off the table.
1 DrillWormBazookaMan 2018-05-27
Tell me, don't "normal" people need to improve on a lot of things too? Why not go after a bigger problem, the massive number of people enabling incels by confirming their biases using over generalizing language, not fully understanding their position, and writing off their concerns as the whinings of a lonely virgin with a shit personality? (Without even knowing them)
Also a female perspective isn't going to help them, I'm sorry but it just isn't. They automatically feel you are privileged, you have "power" when it comes to sexuality and relationships just based on being female. They look at your advice as being condescending because in their eyes, there's no possible way you could understand what they are going through even if you think you do. And as a bisexual man I agree with them, relationship dynamics are different between the sexes and how you go about obtaining a relationship isn't the same way necessarily that a man would.
People who spew vitriol to someone like an Incel vastly outnumber the amount of incels that exist. Wouldn't you say a big problem is the way the incels have been treated by others? By "normal" people? Misogyny and hatred are learned behaviors, for those that are truly Incel it's not surprising they'd turn to vitriol, hatred and bitterness to attempt to get their point across when any attempt at actual discourse is again written off as the whining of virgins. You're right it is entirely situational, but I'd say a much bigger issue and I would argue a major underlying cause of young men being sucked into inceldom are due to the lack of support network these men have and the "Normie's" who only fuel the fire.
I feel if you want to help incels you should be out correcting the misinformation spread about them and get "Normie's" to realize they have some valid points and not every Incel is engaging in the idiotic toxicity that is oh so prevalent on this sub.
And to turn this onto the incels, if you want your points to be heard and "Normie's" to consider your position you need to condemn those that spew that idiotic vitriol which merely poisons the well and further stains your image. You have valid points to make, make them with good, reasonable discourse not this "cope or rope" shit.
It's truly not that easy. Even if they do need a confidence boost which I would say you're correct in that a livid them do, you're simply not going to achieve it from a few random discussions on reddit. Maybe if they could post their pic and have an army of females flocking to them giving them likes and support, sure, but that's not what happens when you're a man unless you are exceptionally attractive.
Yeah that would be most ideal for everyone I would imagine.
Well good luck in your endeavor, I don't see it happening but I at the very least applaud your attempt.
1 Backtakker 2018-05-27
A lot of people are shallow, and it's documented that people will apply negative traits to people they find unattractive, so it is entirely plausible that that is what happened.
1 Rhodri_Kraakman 2018-05-27
Did you even read the rules on the sidebar before posting?
1 Backtakker 2018-05-27
I've had women straight up admit that they and their friends will consider ugly men creepy just for hitting on them. It happens.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-27
You female perspective you provide isn't useful because you are not attempting to extract the fundamental truth of a behaviour or a situation, you just seek to establish and re-establish the narrative you're married to.
If you aren't willing to admit you and virtually all women are shockingly more shallow than they claim to be, at the very least, then you are in denial and the perspective you offer is a delusion.
1 thatzombieoverthere 2018-05-27
cucked in death
1 Apex_Toad_VAPES 2018-05-27
Oh that's lame. I apologized to raspectwahmen, I thought he was the op who asked if I read the sidebar rules. I wouldnt have been as cheeky if I noticed it was a different person.
1 subhumanforever 2018-05-27
Lmfao. Dude literally fucking killed himself and was the guy who made that fat bitch mod. Maybe he killed himself because he realized what a horrible mistake that was?