So this sub and its members pride itself on being black pilled. Black pill, I assume, is the bitter, harsh, but ultimately most accurate truths pertaining to gender and sexual dynamics. In order to be properly black pilled, you presumably had to go through some sort of introspective journey that involves critical think and examination of the blue pill. So why is it that members here do not attempt to use the same critical thinking before posting obviously fallacious straw mans of the "other" side's argument?
The question OP rhetorically asks is very easy to answer by any one who claims to be intelligent enough to derive the black pill. Women are looking for a variety of traits which are weighted differently depending on the woman. Just because you have one of the traits does not necessarily push you past the threshold of romantic interest.
Women are looking for a variety of traits which are weighted differently depending on the woman. Just because you have one of the traits does not necessarily push you past the threshold of romantic interest.
Genetic fitness and then personality traits. This thread is obviously satire. You could also use a little less verbosity.
Yeah, and women will admit they filter for looks then personality. Yup. And so do men. So fucking what?Why do you guys circlejerk like "women care about looks" as if that fact makes them any shallower than you are.
Why do you guys circlejerk like "women care about looks" as if that fact makes them any shallower than you are.
The filtering happens on the different scale.
There's a permeating masculine standard, whereas female standards actually vary.
All accompanied by useless advice and platitudes that have no bearing or meaning on the actual sexual selection but designed for the giver of the said advice to feel good.
90% of you dumb fucks need to be beaten over the head with peer reviewed study after peer reviewed study, and still refuse to admit there needs to be physical attraction for a relationship to work.
Even if they do admit it, so what? You going to magically make them wanna sleep with you now? How does forcing them to admit that physical attractiveness is important help you in any way?
You left out qualities like financial resources (inherited or earned), professional status, etc. This is important because:
You could also use a little less verbosity.
Not a good look for your judgment of verbosity when I had to help fill out the incomplete and distorted assertion you made two sentences earlier. Simple minded people do tend to hate prolonged and in depth nuanced discussions, so if overly simplified bite sized dialogue is what you're looking for, you can try twitter.
You left out qualities like financial resources (inherited or earned), professional status, etc. This is important because:
Implications do not require explicit pronouncement if both parties understand what is being implied. If anything, I've made an error in judgement and thought we were relatively on the same page.
Not a good look for your judgment of verbosity when I had to help fill out the incomplete and distorted assertion you made two sentences earlier.
Incomplete - yes (see earlier) but distorted? What exactly is being distorted in my statement?
Simple minded people do tend to hate prolonged and in depth nuanced discussions, so if overly simplified bite sized dialogue is what you're looking for, you can try twitter.
If you value attention to detail then you should employ less prosaic gaps in your statements, because
[–]The_GreyPill
2 points 46 minutes ago
So this sub and its members pride itself on being black pilled. Black pill, I assume, is the bitter, harsh, but ultimately most accurate truths pertaining to gender and sexual dynamics. In order to be properly black pilled, you presumably had to go through some sort of introspective journey that involves critical think and examination of the blue pill. So why is it that members here do not attempt to use the same critical thinking before posting obviously fallacious straw mans of the "other" side's argument?
does not qualify as nuance but rather an attempt to present yourself as a philosophically intelligent person, however, it came off as you being unabashedly pretentious.
Implications do not require explicit pronouncement if both parties understand what is being implied. If anything, I've made an error in judgement and thought we were relatively on the same page.
If you truly believed that implications do not require explicit pronouncement and made the assumption that we were "relatively on the same page" you would have never needed to make your comment expanding on what qualities and traits I was referring to in the first place. The fact that you did directly contradict what you're now trying to claim. This continues to get more embarrassing.
Incomplete - yes (see earlier) but distorted? What exactly is being distorted in my statement?
So I can anticipate the paragraphs of back and forth we can have on this because this is a grey area of pedantic that you can effectively obfuscate through either your bad faith or your intellectual inability to derive correct inferences based on agreed upon (by academics) modern usage of language. Without an educated and qualified moderator on this discussion, there's really no way I have to stop you from using either your bad faith or potential intellectual inability to derail it.
But the gist of it is this. Your response was made to my comment about a list of traits women look for. You listed only two traits out of many more traits. This arbitrary "explicit pronouncement" of a couple of traits and the leaving out of what you assumed to be "implications" of other traits necessarily distorts what that original list is (both in your mind and mine). And in order to properly get rid of the arbitrary nature of your "explicit pronouncement", you'd have to make an argument for why those two traits supercedes all other traits and why other traits are weighted so little that they do not need to be included in your original comment. But to do this, you'd have to actually engage in thoughtful, nuanced, and in depth discussion. And this all goes to my point that your indictment of verbosity was pretty a "pretty bad look" given how much more your comments and thoughts need to be fleshed out in order to get your correct meaning across.
But again, you can always just try twitter if that's more your thing.
If you value attention to detail then you should employ less prosaic gaps in your statements, because
does not qualify as nuance but rather an attempt to present yourself as a philosophically intelligent person, however, it came off as you being unabashedly pretentious.
A few things I'll unpack here:
You don't understand the reason behind what you quoted because you either lack the reading comprehension skills to derive meaning and context beyond what's explicitly spoonfed to you, or because you are acting in bad faith. The more I talk to you, the more I'm inclined to believe in your intellectual limitation.
I am objectively and factually intelligent by the standard of any measurements that have predictive abilities of success in intellectually demanding tasks. This is not up for debate, but you can still diminish by intelligence through logical fallacies or obfuscation. I can recommend you a few good ones if you don't want to expand the creative energy to come up with any.
If you truly believed that implications do not require explicit pronouncement and made the assumption that we were "relatively on the same page" you would have never needed to make your comment expanding on what qualities and traits I was referring to in the first place.
Yes he would have, because you're an antagonistic strawman loving fuckwit.
This continues to get more embarrassing.
Yeah, for you, smug fucking moron.
Without an educated and qualified moderator on this discussion, there's really no way I have to stop you from using either your bad faith or potential intellectual inability to derail it.
So, kind of like what you're doing? Except not as bad.
And this all goes to my point that your indictment of verbosity was pretty a "pretty bad look" given how much more your comments and thoughts need to be fleshed out in order to get your correct meaning across.
You're typing fucking paragraphs. Stop. Indictment? Try using the word claim, you pseudointellectual shitstain.
You don't understand the reason behind what you quoted because you either lack the reading comprehension skills to derive meaning and context beyond what's explicitly spoonfed to you, or because you are acting in bad faith.
You say this because the person disagrees with you, and that is the ONLY fucking reason. You are a trash pile of human fucking waste that looks up more garbage in a dictionary to desperately come across as better than everyone in this sub because you're fucking pathetic. But then again, maybe that's just as fucking awfully baseless conjecture as you use yourself.
I am objectively and factually intelligent by the standard of any measurements that have predictive abilities of success in intellectually demanding tasks.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHa...haha..HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhh...oh my god.. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA-
There are ways to express same ideas without that many words. I'm perfectly capable of understanding what the person is saying but the intent coupled with provocatory approach gave me an idea to point out the verbosity of the message.
I don't say the whole personality thing but niceness is not at all the same thing. When women say that line about not being sex machines it refers to men who act 'nice' to get sex. But niceness is something that people expect as a base level not as a substitute for personality.
Just like how all men are rapists and mass murderers like Meeks and the highschool boys who keep shooting up their schools. That is a very logical thought process isn't it?
Because they want us to not to be mean to them, but they're too cowardly to admit that being nice/not mean is irrelevant to being an incel so they lie.
Shhh. If you uncover their secrets, they might stop screenshotting you!
Yes, it's all a ploy. They couldn't care less if we're happy or ever find a woman. Their goal is to keep incels "nice" and docile because they're afraid we'll murder and rape people otherwise.
Because a shitty personality is just one part of it but a part that stands out, being “nice” so you can get sex or use ‘uggos’ to boost your confidence is not as genuinely nice as you may think.. Why? Because look at all the blatantly public woman-hating going on when you’re trying to get.. women. It’s rather backwards.
Being nice to people isn't a guarantee of sex, but having an unlikeable personality is a serious impediment to it. That's what it means.
There are nuances to that. It's not a complete impediment, and not the only impediment. 'Unlikeable' doesn't just mean abusive or mean, it can also mean boring, or difficult to connect with, or myriad other negative traits.
Also if you are only acting nice to someone in order to get them to do stuff for you then by very definition you are not 'nice', but manipulative and disregarding and disrespecting the other person's agency and personhood.
It's one of the more terrible reddit memes, you pretend the person pandering is the only logical dude in the thread and say "get outta here with your logic!"
It's a shame this thread is being brigaded or else we would have some actual discussion and debate on why the comment above yours is bullshit, but as we see below people who are making that atte,pt are being swarmed with downvotes. And worthless comments like yours are being upvoted. :/
It's why even normal people on this site don't like r/IncelTears.
The soy in their diet has increased their estrogen levels turning them into feminine men. As they become more feminine they begin to show female characteristics like being a hive-mind and sucking cock.
It's a shame this thread is being brigaded. or else we would have some actual discussion and debate on why the comment above yours is bullshit. Instead, as we see below, people who are making that attempt are being swarmed with downvotes. And useless comments like yours are being upvoted. :/
It sucks, but at least it proves how worthless the upvote/downvote scoring system is.
It's a shame this thread is being brigaded, or else we would have some actual discussion and debate on why the comment above yours is bullshit. Instead, as we see below, people who are making that attempt are being swarmed with downvotes. And useless comments like yours are being upvoted. :/
It sucks, but at least it proves how worthless the upvote/downvote scoring system is.
Oh, thats because the original comment is sufficient enough to voice my opinion.I'm just agreeing on it in a sarcastic way, because honestly? Many of you arent rational enough to have a pointless discussion with. You have your emotional, dreary blamegame on everything but yourself, and we try our darndest to show it to you in all the wrong ways. So let me be emphathetic: Blaming everyone but yourself is tempting, and I have been doing it alot in my life. I get why you do it. Its still the wrong way to go in life, turns anger of rejection into poisonous thoughts that just spreads and spreads, because it seems easier than to face the fact that the reason you're alone is you yourself.
Being nice to people isn't a guarantee of sex, but having an unlikeable personality is a serious impediment to it.
It's an impediment if you're unattractive. Any Chad, regardless of personality,
There are nuances to that. It's not a complete impediment, and not the only impediment. 'Unlikeable' doesn't just mean abusive or mean, it can also mean boring, or difficult to connect with, or myriad other negative traits.
When you use the word "just", you imply that abusiveness or meanness are "unlikeable" traits, and therefore, in your words, "serious impediments" to having sex. However, this is incorrect. Numerous studies showing that possessing Dark Triad traits (e.g., an
"asshole" mentality) is conducive to obtaining sexual relationships with women.
In truth, classically "nice" men don't suffer from a poor or uninteresting personality. Many of these men are actually insightful and interesting people. Think about it. Who would you be able to have a more insightful conversation with? A "nice guy" like Bill Gates, or a "bad boy" like Jeremy Meeks. This is thus just a shaming tactic used in order to gaslight them. The reality is that even nice men when genuinely good personalities are rejected in favour of hypermasculine sociopaths. This is what's never discussed when people talk about "personality"—the female conception of a "good personality" is incredibly vain and superficial, and contrary to what most men would consider a .
Also if you are only acting nice to someone in order to get them to do stuff for you then by very definition you are not 'nice', but manipulative and disregarding and disrespecting the other person's agency and personhood.
Who said anyone is "acting nice"? Maybe we're actually nice. This is something women bring up a lot whenever "nice guys" are mentioned, and it is thus . That if someone is
That's simply not true. If Chad into shy to hold a conversation with a woman and/or is openly hostile from the get-go, and has no confidence or charisma, it's very unlikely he'll get much sex.
When you use the word "just", you imply that abusiveness or meanness are "unlikeable" traits, and therefore, in your words, "serious impediments" to having sex.
That's not what it means at all. Obviously, mean and abusive people do get laid. The difference is though that they usually have enough good traits about them to disguise or outweigh their bad traits long enough to get laid. By good traits, yes, that could mean looks, but also things like charisma, being fun, and, the one that always gets ignored on this sub being able to connect with the person they are talking to. Even the Chaddiest Chad in the world will have some women turn him down because they find him boring or they just don't gel together. But if you try and sleep with someone who you have no connection to, whilst being boring, painfully unconfident, then you're probably going to fail, whether you're nice or not.
Also, as for dark triad traits, well of course they are conducive to getting sex, since by definition some of the characteristics include extremely high confidence, charisma, lying, manipulation, and attention to your own physical attractiveness. Having sex does not equal having a meaningful romantic bond though... and, as the incel sidebar used to say, if all that mattered was pure sex you'd just pay a prostitute.
Many of these men are actually insightful and interesting people. Think about it. Who would you be able to have a more insightful conversation with? A "nice guy" like Bill Gates, or a "bad boy" like Jeremy Meeks.
Firstly, Bill Gates is married, so he's not a great example. Also, no one has ever said being nice in itself is a bad thing. It's just a baseline. If you're not absolutely stunningly attractive you have to be nice, but that's not the only thing you need. Also, you're forgetting that different women are different and have different preferences. Many women would prioritise the intellectual conversation Bill Gates could offer over the chiselled cheekbones of Jeremy Meeks. Whereas some women (just like some men) aren't particularly into stimulating intellectual conversation and would prefer a hot bod, plus whatever Jeremy Meeks has to talk about. I don't know what that is, but let's say he likes to talk about his hilarious drunken antics and all the times his friends got up to shit. To some people, that's way more fun and interesting than anything Bill Gates could ever talk about.
what most men would consider a "good personality".
If that were true then all men would have cultivated dazzling personalities for themselves, which they clearly have not. It's just a fact different people of both sexes have different ideas of what constitutes interesting.
Who said anything about "acting nice"?
Well, because the quote in the title of this post is usually said when a guy gets angry at not being able to sleep with a girl he was 'nice' to, which by definition means he wasn't being genuinely nice, because if you are genuinely nice then the person's happiness is the only reward you need.
because if you are genuinely nice then the person's happiness is the only reward you need.
Ah yes, this old chestnut. I always find it cute that women actually think men care about them enough at the start that they will do nice things for them, expecting nothing in return. No man (Chad included) does anything nice for women they are trying to sleep with because they just want to see the other person happy. They're not in love with you ffs, they barely even know you yet. The only difference is that the men that the woman actually ends up sleeping with/dating obviously never end up complaining about their 'niceness' not being exchanged for sex as they got the sex/relationship. Which of course leaves the 'nice guys' who get dumped on for acting in exactly the same way that Chad was, in terms of being 'nice.'
No man (Chad included) does anything nice for women they are trying to sleep with because they just want to see the other person happy.
Spoken like a man who has never been friends with a woman. (I mean real friends. Not friendzoned where you want to fuck her and she just wants you around to make her feel better)
Yeah and actually most women won't expect a man to do 'nice' things for them out of the blue when they're not dating, beyond things that can be considered common courtesy or things you might also do for a friend or colleague of the same gender who you didn't fancy. That's not how most romances start, despite what rom coms will have you believe, in fact it can just be annoying or embarrassing or a bit of a red flag. Most relationships start with talking to someone and connecting with them, finding them interesting or funny, and physically attractive, then progressing to the next stage. Apart from one-night-stands which may start with physical attraction and may end at physical attraction too.
That's simply not true. If Chad into shy to hold a conversation with a woman and/or is openly hostile from the get-go, and has no confidence or charisma, it's very unlikely he'll get much sex.
This is false, and demonstrably so. Tinder.
That's not what it means at all. Obviously, mean and abusive people do get laid. The difference is though that they usually have enough good traits about them to disguise or outweigh their bad traits long enough to get laid.
This is what I'm getting at in my claim that the female perception of a good personality is not consistent with the male perception of a good personality. Women evaluate personalities at a very superficial level—if a man's personality seems "fun" and induces a dopamine rush in the woman's mind, that man has a "good" personality, irrespective of considerations like integrity, honesty, law-abidingness, etc. which most people associate with having a good personality.
For instance, most men would describe a serial killer as having a bad personality even if that serial killer is charismatic, but women do not, because, as you've stated, charisma and "funness" outweighs any bad traits for women.
Also, as for dark triad traits, well of course they are conducive to getting sex, since by definition some of the characteristics include extremely high confidence, charisma, lying, manipulation, and attention to your own physical attractiveness
Okay, so, again, let's be real about what females mean when they talk about a "good personality". They're referring to low-inhibition, narcissism, lack of remorse, and dominance. This is what females are attracted to.
This is a classical motte and bailey trick. The motte here is the connotation generically associated with the phrase "good personality", namely, as I mentioned above, kindness, integrity, respect, etc. The bailey is that your notion of a "good personality" is actually a sociopath's personality.
Firstly, Bill Gates is married, so he's not a great example.
Irrelevant. Are you retarded? You can assess whether or not a man has, in principle, a personality which can be regarded as "attractive" regardless of whether or not
It's just a fact different people of both sexes have different ideas of what constitutes interesting.
Yes, women consider sociopaths to have "good" personalities. Most men don't, which why we've created a justice system to ensure such deviants are kept away.
Well, because the quote in the title of this post is usually said when a guy gets angry at not being able to sleep with a girl he was 'nice' to, which by definition means he wasn't being genuinely nice, because if you are genuinely nice then the person's happiness is the only reward you need.
That's false as well. You can be a genuinely nice person and still expect your niceness to yield at least a modicum of reward. If you're nice as a default, but women reject you regardless, then complaining about this fact doesn't mean that your niceness was originally disingenuous. All it means is that you've recognized an inconsistency between what women purport to desire in men (honesty, integrity, virtue) and what they actually desire (superficial notions of "funness", typically manifesting in sociopathic behaviour) and you're legitimately calling them out on it.
Irrelevant. Are you retarded? You can assess whether or not a man has, in principle, a personality which can be regarded as "attractive" regardless of whether or not he's single.
You were implying that someone like Bill Gates is totally unattractive to women. The fact that he is attractive proves otherwise.
You're deliberately equivocating when you use the word "some". It's "the vast majority" who would prefer Meeks.
No I'm not. That is a fact of life. Maybe you've been hanging out in the wrong circles if that's the impression you're getting.
If you genuinely think being fun and interesting are straight-up sociopathic traits then I suspect your inceldom stems from far deeper problems. If you don't fit in, it feels nice to tell yourself that everyone else are terrible people. But ultimately, what feels even nicer is to learn to fit in with them.
Really stop and think about what it means to have an "attractive personality". You might as well say that someone has an attractive spirit aura. Does it mean that they are the same as you? Or is it that they are different and it contrasts with you? Don't worry, your mind will find some excuse for you to be attracted to Chad. You can fill in the details later. The fact is, what you call a "good personality" is totally arbitrary, and usually comes from your what your amygdala wants. Only later, after your irrational animal brain has decided that you like someone, does the rest of your mind try to justify it. Basically, humans are really unfair and superficial at how they judge people.
At least most guys admit how shallow they are, while I have noticed women under 25 tend to delude themselves and justify who they are attracted to. This is the same phenomenon that is I think behind a lot of subtle racism. A black guy comes in the room, and all the sudden you feel "unsafe", but you can't say why, and you just feel compelled to leave.
I've seen girls chase after guys who have no redeeming qualities, because they misinterpret him being a scumbag with him being strong. Hell, men who are actual serial killers and rapists get love letters in prison. Ted Bundy was super hot and was easily able to seduce his victims. I've seen people confabulate the most ludicrous explanations for why they are attracted to unworthy people.
You do know Bill Gates is not an incel right? He got pussy why? Because he was nice, interesting and was not painful to the eyes ugly. Bill Gates is a genius, you on the other hand, not so much.
Also if you are only acting nice to someone in order to get them to do stuff for you then by very definition you are not 'nice', but manipulative and disregarding and disrespecting the other person's agency and personhood.
its always funny how women are both poor victims who get manipulated by evil abusers and then profi psychologist who can see that someone is not genuin by just looking at his face.
Your comment doesn't even make sense. In the specific context we're talking about here, the women in question clearly weren't successfully manipulated, hence the NiceGuy's need to whine about how he didn't get laid despite being nice.
Anyhow, more generally speaking, if you have an abusive personality and very high levels of charisma and social skills, then you will find it easy to manipulate and abuse people (this applies to both genders). If you have very low charisma and social skills then your abusive personality will shine through in your voice and actions as if you had it printed on your forehead.
Why would I ever lie about something so petty? Is it so hard to believe that someone ugly can get laid? Is it so hard to tell yourself that the only reason you can't get laid is yourself? That no one is to blame for your situation than yourself?
Take some personal responsibility and stop expecting the world to change to fit your shitty needs. (Needs being sticking your dick on someone you have 0 respect for).
Is it so hard to believe that someone ugly can get laid?
Yes, it's harder to believe an ugly dude can get laid by more women than I messaged on a dating site with my dirt low standards and a giant search radius.
Take some personal responsibility and stop expecting the world to change to fit your shitty needs. (Needs being sticking your dick on someone you have 0 respect for).
Right, just stop havig a sex drive, it's so easy...
Why would I want to shut you up? Like in your twisted world I'm so devious that I'm thinking "oh I hate this guy, let me lie to him and give him some hope that he can get laid by lying to him about something that I know is impossible to achieve!"
You messaged less than 54 women? Well idk how you expected anything from that.
I'm saying instead of expecting the world to change, you should change. That doesn't mean have no sex drive you idiot. That means use your sex drive to be a better person. The kind of person women want to have sex with. It's honestly not that difficult if you give enough of a shit to make the change instead of spending your time on a sub filled with other frustrated men who also can't get laid. Like if it's so important to you then I would expect you'd spend more time in bars or clubs trying to approach women. Or you'd be on tinder bumble and okcupid and messaging every single women you come across. I figured you'd read some books on how to attract women or go on r/seduction to get some advice.
Instead you do nothing but message 20 women and complain that they didn't respond when they saw your shitty tinder pictures that you took in your dirty bathroom mirror.
You can't change the world. Only you can change. Or you can just keep bitching about it. Totally up to you.
You messaged less than 54 women? Well idk how you expected anything from that.
It might have been just over, somewhere around there at least, I didn't expect anything but if I was told that within the 5 year age range and ~150 mile radius there would only be about 54 girls on there who were recently online who are either white or Asian and aren't landwhales I wouldn't have bothered trying online dating in the first place. My standards were reasonably low but still not met.
I'm saying instead of expecting the world to change, you should change.
I'm not expecting it to change, I just recognize that is what's necessary for life to improve.
The kind of person women want to have sex with. It's honestly not that difficult if you give enough of a shit to make the change instead of spending your time on a sub filled with other frustrated men who also can't get laid.
I don't have the face for it. Women aren't going to be more attracted to me regardless.
Like if it's so important to you then I would expect you'd spend more time in bars or clubs trying to approach women.
Can't drink and I don't want a girl who drinks.
Or you'd be on tinder bumble and okcupid and messaging every single women you come across.
I stopped using tinder because of my "friend" telling me it was only availible on phone so I never bothered checking to see if it was on PC without using an emulator. Regardless it's more for shallow stuff so I'd have even less of a chance on it. It also seems a bit sketchy in terms of how it reels people in, for example a "woman" I matched with messaged me first but it didn't seem to be an advertising bot or one that spread viruses or anything like that, she just said "hello" or something pretty standard like that and it ended there, I think I might have responded a day later and it didn't reply to send a link or anything just silence like I'd expect from a real woman, but I know that no woman would bother wasting her time on me. So that just reaks of sketchy practices to keep you hooked.
Instead you do nothing but message 20 women and complain that they didn't respond when they saw your shitty tinder pictures that you took in your dirty bathroom mirror.
Sorry for not going after women 200 miles away or ones 10 years older than me?
You wouldn't be caling my preferences racist if I only wanted blacks I'm sure... regardless everyone has racial preferences, I even went a bit outsie of mine to include asian women which I am generally attracted to but wouldn't want to have a kid with.
Don't want a girl who drinks;
I never mention it.
didn't respond for a day to a message?
It was one message and I assumed it was a bot.
Yeah, it's not just your looks keeping you from dating.
Why are you criticizing women for allegedly not being interested in unattractive guys when you yourself have requirements for what a girl has to look like? If you can say you only want to be with white or asian girls who are of an average or less than average weight and don’t drink, then why should other people not have a right to only be with people they find physically attractive?
You also say that your face just isn’t one women will be attracted to. If there are people like you who are attracted to skinny white/asian women who don’t drink and can have such a preference, then it’s impossible for you not to be someone’s type.
About the tinder thing, the woman obviously found you attractive / her type enough to match with you. You took a day to reply, so either a) she thought you were uninterested, b) she didn’t like your reply, or c) she started chatting with someone she liked more in that period of time. I’m also not sure why you use “woman” in quotes. Saying “hello” is not a sketchy reply that proves she’s a bot. Her not replying is not a sketchy reply. There is literally nothing to suggest that you matched with her because she’s a boy.
Why do you have all of these hypocritical views? Why can men have preferences but if a woman does she’s shallow? I’m sure that women don’t pursue you not because they all hate you and are out to get you, but rather because you have backwards views on what to expect from them based on their gender and have such low self-esteem and high self-pity that they’re warded off.
Not drinking is a deal breaker and people have a tendency to prefer their own race, and I'd want a white girl for reproductive reasons so it's a lot different than women only wanting chads. most women these days put no effort into themselves because they can get whatever they want.
You also say that your face just isn’t one women will be attracted to. If there are people like you who are attracted to skinny white/asian women who don’t drink and can have such a preference, then it’s impossible for you not to be someone’s type.
I don't get your logic at all but women have much more uniform tastes.
I’m also not sure why you use “woman” in quotes. Saying “hello” is not a sketchy reply that proves she’s a bot. Her not replying is not a sketchy reply. There is literally nothing to suggest that you matched with her because she’s a bot.
Well that's the thing, there IS nothing that suggests it was a bot which is why this tactic would work so well for the company to use it, it makes guys feel like they are wanted. It took me a day to reply because I doubted it was a real woman so I wasn't too bothered to reply. Like I said she messaged me the same day I signed up and she messaged me of all people, so that's two big red flags.
Why do you have all of these hypocritical views? Why can men have preferences but if a woman does she’s shallow?
Men have more varied preferences.
I’m sure that women don’t pursue you not because they all hate you and are out to get you, but rather because you have backwards views on what to expect from them based on their gender and have such low self-esteem and high self-pity that they’re warded off.
No, it's more that they just aren't attracted to me, my conversations get cut off incredibly quickly.
Why do you think women have more uniform tastes and men have more varied preferences? What suggests that, besides women you know personally? I assume that must be what you’re basing your knowledge off of, but a sample size of 4 women doesn’t count.
Why can women not want “Chads” for reproductive reasons? Why the hell can you discriminate based on race for who you want to fuck but women can’t discriminate based on appearance?
Ok, so women clearly do talk to unattractive men every day. So the question is why won't they talk to you. Well, I don't know, but I have some ideas. Perhaps you have poor social skills, which make you seem weird or simply unappealing to talk to. If you are trying to take to women in places like a bar or club, then it's they may not be looking for a man, in which case random men (regardless of attractiveness) coming up to talk to you is just annoying, especially since, in such an environment, you know what their end goal is and you already know they're not going to get it so why bother even talking. Alternatively, maybe they are looking for a man, but the above would still apply: they if you're unattractive, there's no point wasting either of your time. But that only really applies to situations where it is known that people go to pick up dates. If you are still in school, well, everyone's a douche at school, wait till you're out.
You're saying this as if women choose sexual partners the same way they choose friends, which couldn't be further from the truth.
A woman's male friend could be all the good things you just said, but yet remain his entire life in the friendzone.
Women choose sex partners based on much more primal traits, like strong jaws, facial symmetry, dominant/aggressive behavior, social status among peers.
Also people in this sub way over-estimate the standard required to meet the definition of "attractive" for most women. Also not to mention the fact that women have varied tastes and what's attractive to one women won't be for another.
You should know that women perceive attractiveness based on more than just physical looks. If I have to rely on looks alone, then yea I would be an incel too. Talk to any women about what really gets them going and its a lot of nonphysical features. My gf gets really turned on seeing me interact with children. She loves when I get angry at someone (without losing control). There are tons of little things that increase her attraction to me that are not physical traits.
Women are not men. They do not choose partners based on physical traits alone. That being said, not all women are the same. Many have differences in what they view as attractive.
Lol yeah, women want to fuck men that they’re attracted to. Huge discovery. But also men want to fuck women they’re attracted to. So i guess the moral of the story is that people want to fuck people they’re attracted to. And I guess that means if you’re a fat awkward incel the only thing you could do to fix that is go to the fucking gym and start acting like a man if you want to get laid. Whoops! Secret’s out!
In addition to not being a fatass, it also helps to work on your personality of not being an asshole, and to find decent well fitting clothes. Not the same clothes you wore when being said fat ass.
Did you just say that I shouldn't be an asshole to get laid on a thread that mocks people who think not being an asshole will get you laid?
Thks for assuming that Im an asshole who doesn't know how to get dressed tho, and completely ignoring the link that shows how women have absurdly high standards for male attractiveness.
Bro, your link doesn’t load for me. This brief interaction is mostly confirming that you’re entitled though, and I see a high correlation between being entitled and an asshole.
Physical attractiveness is a big factor but so is your personality. Im not going to speak for one-night stands, but a girlFRIEND is your best friend. You have to share some interests or goals together or it doesn’t work, unless you’re a total mode or filthy rich. Most men are neither of those and happen to be able to get laid.
Sorry, but painting Warhammer figurines (or whatever your hobbies may be) doesn’t really crossover gender boundaries. Find hobbies or activities you enjoy to participate in that also has significant involvement from the opposite sex.
Fuck off, your head is so far up your ass you can't even hear us, women have insane standards, don't act like we are all the bottom of the barrel when most of us are average.
I’m a 6-7 with a slight Dad bod but since I’m not a modern Neanderthal like 90% of this sub I have a girlfriend who’s not only out of my league, but is also my best friend.
Serial* killers tend to be incredibly charismatic. Ted Bundy wasn’t above average in looks, but he was so charming that women and men alike fell to his feet. Abusers and cheaters tend to also have a very friendly and charismatic front as a way to trick people into being with them.
This is not because serial killers, abusers, cheaters, and gang members as a demographic tend to be more attractive, but rather that the thing they spend much of their time doing requires for them to be a charmer.
You talk about people having this kind of animalistic charisma, but have you ever stopped to unpack exactly how that works? It's not magic, it's just behavior. It's crude, abusive, and violent.
Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you that being an abusive scumbag will get you laid. I never abused anyone, but I certainly projected that I did. It was all a lie of course, but I wanted to get laid, so I just emulated the behavior of guys I saw who were attractive to women. Make sure to talk about how you use physical violence against people who cross you, and how you enjoy hurting others. I once told a woman how I beat someone's dog because he nipped at me. Also, make sure to emphasize how you don't care about anyone but yourself, and certainly not your date, and that they are lucky you are even talking to them.
This is what society rewards and encourages. Trump would be a ladies man even if he were flat broke. There are many women who are attracted to personalities like his. I know you don't want to hear this, but it is true.
Of course, all of this matters a lot less when you get older. Men and Women become much more sensible after their early 20s.
Did I say that their charisma was magic? Obviously it’s behavior.
Being an abusive scumbag may get you laid, but only with a certain type of girls—those with little self-respect or self-confidence, or those who expect that kind of behavior due to familial abuse. Being a decent guy, who isn’t nice to girls just because he’s trying to fuck, has a much higher success rate with more women, I can assure you.
Being an abusive scumbag may get you laid, but only with a certain type of girls—those with little self-respect or self-confidence, or those who expect that kind of behavior due to familial abuse. Being a decent guy, who isn’t nice to girls just because he’s trying to fuck, has a much higher success rate with more women, I can assure you.
Women may sometimes be attracted to assholes, but so are men. People in general may sometimes be attracted to assholes. It doesn’t mean that it’s the best route to try and get some action
I don't disagree with any of that. And I am certainly not advocating for being an asshole, ever. In my late teens, I was sexually frustrated, and I tried all sorts of things. Honestly it felt gross putting on the "alpha" guise, but I can't deny that it was effective.
So I can see how it seems dishonest when incels are given these mixed messages about how they should be nice, while at the same time Chad can be a tyrant and is rewarded with sexual attention. Of course it is not that simple, but that is how it can appear to a frustrated young man.
This all really comes down to people not knowing themselves, and most of this is mitigated with maturity.
Various studies about online dating found that women use more factors to determine attractiveness than men, which is primarily responsible for the rating discrepancy. Furthermore, women tend to post more flattering pictures of themselves to dating sites than men, which could definitely help with the difference.
The study also found that women on OkCupid value grammar more than body weight, so maybe the problem has less to do with your face and body than you think.
even if that's true, your horrible personalities are still a direct and obvious impediment to some of those things, like social status, behaviour (it's not exactly attractive to complain about how unlucky you are all the time)
What people like you call good personality isn't about being "nice", it's about being charismatic/funny/mysterious/dangerous etc. That's why so many liars and sociopaths are popular with the opposite sex. Not to mention that if you're 8+ none of that even matters.
The truth is, this kind of bluepill advice is misleading at best and harmful at worst. Sure, if you want to be one of those miserable "stable" (read: betabux) guys who women settle for in their 30's and who frequent r/deadbedrooms - go ahead with the nice guy strategy. But something tells me people who post here want to be genuinely desired for who they are and not as subservient walking ATMs.
Ahhahahah im below average and I have talked to everyone in my class, yes including the girls, maybe its our small student count of 20 but we all know eachother quite well, yes including the nerds, jocks( 3 of my best friends are jocks actually) and those girls you seem to underestimate. Bottom line if you talk to a girl just because you want sex thats using them, try actually talking to them like you would talk to anyone.
Um... having lived a life, experience of people, being in relationships, knowing other people who've been in relationships, basic common sense, all of those things.
And you've got something better...? Stats and studies to prove... what exactly? That having unlikeable character traits and poor social skills isn't an impediment to finding a partner? Do me a favour.
Looks do matter but are not the whole picture. If you are a 2/10 for looks and you are ok with being in a relationship with a 2/10 than you can be an average person outside of looks. If you are a 2/10 and want to date a 4/10 than you should be above average other than looks.
The problem is when you are a 2/10 for looks and also are an asshole with a warped perspective on women, dating and reality than so few people are going to be an appropriate match for you that you will be unlikely to find anyone interested.
Because there are 2/10 people in happy relationships people say that ugly looks aren't THE problem. But I think everyone agrees that being ugly does limit your options.
I didn't say or imply that, now did I? Just making the observation that he doesn't seem to appreciate any other of the other features of women, he's not a fan.
That is probably part of the problem. That's very shallow of you and women can detect shallowness pretty quickly. That would fall under the category of 'unlikeable personality'.
First learn to see women as people. To engage them as an individual with unique qualities worthy of spending the time to get to know and spend time with.
Oh yeah, because it's not like shallow guys ever get laid. And there's that laughable "women have detectors" nonsense again.
>First learn to see women as peeeepoooole. To engage with them as an individual with unique qualitiezzzzzz worthy of spending the tiiiime to get to know and spend tiimme wiffff.
What do you mean, "see them as people?" See them as men? Because they're not men.
They don't have unique qualitiezzzz. They're a bunch of ditzy archetypes.
I was having a discussion with a male coworker who said men do not date below them as far as attraction whereas women will. I'm not sure how much I believe him but I think that's why men here don't always understand the way that women feel attraction. It's not the same way some men do.
😂 dude thats a bit shallow if you think about it, you never thought a girl was okay and slowly started to like her more and more as you got to know her?! Like why would you want to date people if you have never liked someone past their looks?
So you never started liking someone cause you found put that they also have similar interests as you?! Because a hot girl who plays cod is hotter than just a hot girl in my book
The key concept is that if you're only nice to a woman because you want to have sex with her, she'll think you're being creepy. Woman are expertly trained to detect that kind of manipulative behavior. If you're genuinely nice to her because you want to be a nice person, and don't have any alterior motive, she'll respond very differently. This is by no means a guarantee that she'll find you attractive, but not being a creep will definitely increase your chances.
The key concept is that if you're only nice to a woman because you want to have sex with her, she'll think you're being creepy. Woman are expertly trained to detect that kind of manipulative behavior.
Yeah, because no woman ever goes to bed with a good-looking guy who just wanted to get in her pants, like, ever. One night stands, what are those? Girls who go for douchebag Chads who make no secret of the fact they want to bone them, they totally don't exist.
Of course that happens. But those guys are not being deceitful. They make it plain that they're attracted to her. They're not pretending to be her friend to get close to her. Sometimes the attraction is returned, sometimes it's not. In those situations it's definitely helpful to be attractive.
If you're trying to win a woman's affection with your personality, being deceitful is a bad way to start. Be a genuinely nice person, and women will start to respond better to you. Take it from a less than hot guy who has had multiple girlfriends.
Well, if you're incapable of being a nice person just because you want to be a nice person, then I would tend to agree. People can tell when you're being nice to someone because you want something from them, and it's very off-putting.
And I can guarantee you that that's what's standing in your way.
You can't do much about genetics, but you can make up for a large part of it by learning to be a nicer person. Even Pat Oswald got married, and that's because he has an attractive personality.
I get why you're frustrated. I was pretty old before I had any luck with women. I've been there. But there is hope. You just have to realize that blaming everything on genetics and societal norms isn't getting you anywhere.
One of the problems is communication. From the age of a young child, women say "I want to find a nice guy." Guys interpret this as "I seek someone who is meek." What she doesn't tell you, often because she is young, unselfaware and doesn't articulate well is that what she really wants is an attractive man who is also nice, and by "nice," what she means is "personable." She just takes "attractive" for granted--and assumes that others do, too. Guys are the same way, but we tend to know that we like hot women.
Looks aren't the only problem. If anyone tells you looks have no importance in dating, they are lying. But it is also ridiculous to say it is the only important thing.
Being genuinely nice: Not a guarantee of sex, which itself is a strawman.
People here complain that IT is being hypocritical when they say you are probably mean to women or have a bad personlity. They call that out and your shit explanation of it that has basically nothing to do with the point of the post gets upvoted because you successfully missed the point but managed to pander to the 3,000 people lurking here that agree.
Let me break it down for you so that you don't misinterpret what he's trying to say, giving the appearance that you're correct because you sprinkled a strawman that people agree with:
So let's say you mention you can't seem to find a girlfriend. You've try pretty much done every checklist improvement IT throws at you. When asked you tell them this.
You're expecting a reply like 'Oh well maybe it's just bad luck', but you're hit with 'If you tried all of those things it must be your personality.'
The argument itself solves nothing. It just throws away the problem to a solution that's easy to digest for people who don't like to think the world is unfair. The problem could be with his personality, sure. But for this instance we can take Occam's razor.
Which is more likely. Every person who is a virgin (Not limited to braincels) has a terrible personality, or that it's possible no one finds him attractive enough to be a sexual partner? That latter has many studies and such to back up the fact that people prefer attractive people in almost every instance of life. People enjoy looking at appealing things, which is a fact. The fact that many people deny this and instead belittle those who haven't met the expectations of getting a girlfriend because they're 'probably boring or probably rude' is ridiculous because it assumes literally every virgin that has ever existed has this problem ONLY pertains to personality, which is proven to be the second thing people pay attention to when finding a partner, basically implying looks are ALWAYS irrelevant and everything we experience is because we're boring or shit people.
Your insistence that looks are the only thing that matter ignores the fact that there are some very good looking virgins and many ugly men who get laid all the time. To most people this is absolutely obvious. All you have to do is go into the street to see it. Yes, looks are important. But they are not the only important factor. Also, different women find different things attractive. It has also been proven that among women there is a broader range of male features they find attractive than men. In other words, men are more likely to agree on whether a woman is attractive or not, whereas women often surprise other women with the men they find attractive, because one woman's hairy ugly wreck is another woman's sexy beast.
In fact, personality isn't even the biggest obstacle to most people here. It's social skills. If you have good enough social skills you can hide the most boring, obnoxious personality. I realise that some people have Asperger's or other issues that hinder them from having great social skills. But It is still possible to learn good social skills.
Part of good social skills is learning to connect with other people, and accepting that the nature of human interaction means that some people you want to connect with won't find you very appealing - this goes for friends as well as love interests.
Good looks are important in sexual attraction, but so is personality, and social skills and charisma. Without social skills, how on Earth are you going to chat someone up well enough to get them into bed? People don't go round just wordlessly pouncing on anyone they find attractive - except in films. You need the social skills to make it happen. Even if you were so stunningly beautiful that every time you went out in public a girl came up to you to flirt with you, if you were unable to flirt back without coming off as stand-offish and cold (a common trap for shy people unfortunately), or start talking about subjects she finds boring, rather than oozing sex appeal and charisma and smiling and laughing in a confident and self-assured way, if you accidentally give her the "I'm planning how to chop up your body" vibe, if you don't know how to react naturally to her advances and just stand their rigidly without knowing what to do, or alternatively come on way to strong to quickly, then she's going end the conversation quickly and walk off, thinking you are either uninterested or dangerous. I have seen this happen with people I know. It's really sad. But the good thing is that you can learn the social skills to overcome it.
Your insistence that looks are the only thing that matter ignores the fact that there are some very good looking virgins and many ugly men who get laid all the time.
Your insistence on personality is ignoring my entire point that personality ISNT the only factor that plays into getting into a relationship like everyone opposing me implies. I don't remember saying looks were the only factor. In fact I even agreed that personality plays one too, just a secondary role.
Yet another example of presuming my beliefs based on my opinion on one particular thing.
In fact, personality isn't even the biggest obstacle to most people here. It's social skills. If you have good enough social skills you can hide the most boring, obnoxious personality.
This is my problem, everyone speaks as if it's IMPOSSIBLE for looks to be a factor. They mention that looks do play a role, then they turn around and say PERSONALITY or SOCIAL SKILLS are the problem. When someone complains about not being able to attract women or whatever the go to response is 'you must have a shit personality' with no consideration that maybe looks may play a role. They say:
No way is it looks. They matter a SHIT TON but what about those OTHER things like charisma bro?
Do you want me to have charisma while women are covering their faces as I glance in their general direction not even looking directly at them once?
Well you must be staring at them or something bro, no one does that.
It doesn't happen often but it happens enough for me to hate my life! 😀
Well how can u get a girlfriend if u have no social skills bro, u must be boring.
I have 2 best-friends that are girls who I still hang out with. My personality and charisma is fine.
This is exactly right. There's an order, a sequence to going from single to getting laid/in a relationship. The precursor to pickup skills is social skills.
I would be curious to know how many incel participants were an only child, or guys who were somewhat isolated during their social formative stages.
It's true. Niceness is the bare minimum for femoids. Literally everyone is nice to femoids and the reason that is so hard to unattractive men to grasp is because people are rarely nice to unattractive men.
This is why unattractive men fall so hard for any femoid who shows them even the slightest hint of decent treatment. These same men think that being nice is all you need for a femoid to attract femoids as well.
There's actually a lot of truth in that. There was a study quite recently that basically said the same thing. Boys and men in our society aren't encouraged to show emotion or vulnerability, therefore they aren't allowed to develop the same strong social bonds and friendships that women do. They can't show affection towards their male friends as they would be derided as weak or gay if they did, whereas it is normal for women to show basic affection towards their friends, so when a woman shows the slightest kindness to a man, to her it's just totally normal whereas to him it might be the only kindness he's received in years, therefore there is a massive understanding gap. This is a really big problem in society. It probably contributes to a lot of the problems that men suffer from, including higher levels of homelessness, depression and suicide.
low iq comment. It would need some time to find out if someone is genuin nice or just nice to get laid.
Also, what person isnt nicer to someone hes attracted too? Seems to be a lame argument that the reason why "nice guys" arent getting laid is because they do X, while the rest of the world does X too and gets away with it
It takes very little time to spot fake niceness. Unless the guy's really good at acting AND is hot and the girl is stupid, and yeah that happens all the time as well.
Well great, I get rejected as soon as I approach girls normally, which would be before doing or saying anything even vaguely nice so they aren't spotting fake niceness...
He lived in a very different time in the UK where online dating and sexual freedom hadn't yet exacerbated female hypergamy as much as today.
It's unfair to cite a world renown personality as an example of dating success. What's the lesson here? If im not capable of getting an equivalent social status as Stephen Hawking, I am not worthy of romantic intimacy or sex?
His second marriage was in 1995... I daresay there was plenty of sexual freedom for women then. Maybe not for gays, but certainly for women.
The lesson is that looks are only part of the equation. Even if you are a 0 on looks (Nothing against the brilliant Dr. Hawking, but in 1995 he was probably as close to a 0 on looks as one might get). If you think you're lacking in the looks department, you can still be appealing. That is the lesson. Ok, sure, none of us are going to have the world-renowned intellect of Dr. Hawking, but I'm going to venture a guess that you're not as twisted and crippled as he was either...
Wait so you bringing up irrelevant facts about Stephen hawking's married life is more productive than me describing how he'd never be able to do the same if he was born 30 years ago?
Why? You're action provides 0 value to the discussion while mine gives room for more discussion and therefore more than 0 value.
Irrelevant? Dude had 0 looks, and still got married... twice.
You only say it provides no value to the discussion because it goes against the incel groupthink that one needs a decent appearance to get sex and affection. If you don't like my example, google "ugly couples" and you'll get a thousand examples of unsightly guys that managed to get a girlfriend. And they aren't all Stephen Hawking, that's for sure.
Irrelevant? Dude had 0 looks, and still got married... twice.
in a time without hypergamy therefore, irrelevant. You can't prove that he'd be able to do that right now, can you?
You only say it provides no value to the discussion because it goes against the incel groupthink that one needs a decent appearance to get sex and affection.
I say it provides no value because his marriages did not take place in the same social situation. That's like me pointing to arranged marriages in medieval Europe and saying things like "see anyone can get married regardless of looks or personality!!".
It's irrelevant.
If you don't like my example, google "ugly couples" and you'll get a thousand examples of unsightly guys that managed to get a girlfriend.
Yeah. Obviously, nobody denies that ugly people get into relationships, do you know what a trend is?
Yeah. Obviously, nobody denies that ugly people get into relationships, do you know what a trend is? 1 ugly man getting a girl for every 6 million uggos who can't isn't exactly proving a point
Is that the rate of success of ugly people getting dates? I would VERY much like to see your source data on this!
I said 1 out of 6 million ugly men, not 1 out of 6 million men.
.3% (the men who don't have sex by 44 according to your study) × 3.5 billion men on earth, leaves a little over 10 million men on earth who haven't had sex by then.
So you're right I was wrong about the 1 in 6 million uglies having a girlfriend, it's more like 1 in 10 million.
Of course, one cannot assume that the 0.3% are celibate simply out of looks. I mean, the number of priests, monks and nuns can account for at least a portion of that.
What percentage of the population do you think is really ugly? 5%? 1%? Even if you go with 1%, that means that 70% of ugly folks will eventually have luck finding a partner.
If you're nice to only one woman just to get laid, you're by definition not nice. If you blame only others without ever considering your shortcomings like most people on this sub, you're not nice, or deserving or entitled. You never are entitled, even if you act like it
the anti-friendzone arguments and the anti incel arguments contradict eachother
it's like every level they get a new "pill"
isolated incel who never talked to a woman before - "just be nice to women bro"
nice guy in friendzone - "being nice is no guarantee, just move on and find someone who wants you"
nice guy finally in beta relationship - "she prefers you to the previous guys because you're more secure and solid bro, you're a reliable old car and they were wild sports cars bro, just accept it"
accepted it and got divorced anyway, now single in middle age - "hey old dude just get on tinder, fix your hair and shirt old dude, not all women are like your ex"
Naw some women will be superficial, but a lot are capable of picking up on subtle cues that tell if a person is trustworthy or not. Honestly I'm more wary with conventionally good looking men than I am with the average or unconventional looking guys, because so many of the former think they're so slick with their game, and just expect to be able to move on to the next girl. Those kind of dudes won't even take the time to remember your name the next day. Some women actually want to connect on a human level
Because women want a partner, not someone to fuck them and leave? I consider my boyfriend my best friend. Would you be friends with someone just because they're nice? You probably would prefer to hang out with someone who has a similar sense of humor, has similar/interesting hobbies and interests. I've never had a one night stand, but I know I'd be unable to have sex with anyone I'm not comfortable with. And I feel like a lot of people, especially women, feel the same way.
You seriously think that all supposed 'nice guys' don't have a good sense of humor, or interesting hobbies and interests? Remember, the whole 'nice' meme was started by normies to strawman incels into shame. It's called the friendzone, not the nicezone. In other words, you're good enough to be a friend but nothing more.
What I'm saying is that some people click, others don't. I'm not trying to shame you at all. If you haven't been in a relationship with someone, you just haven't found that person you "click" with yet. I have high standards because I'm literally allowing someone into my body, and if something goes wrong I could potentially have to deal with it by myself if he runs off. I can't speak for all women obviously, because we are all people with different opinions, but I don't think I'm out of the norm. My boyfriend looks nothing like the guys in the OP, though.
Exactly, and to 'click' you require physical attractiveness. This is the main differentiator between someone being a friend (or friendzoned in this case) and being a boyfriend. In the same way that most best friends of the same sex would end up together if they were physically attracted to each other.
And i wasn't suggesting you were shaming incels (sorry if it came across that way), i am merely saying that the whole 'niceness' thing was concocted as a strawman by certain commentators in order to shame incels. I was talking in general, not about you.
I appreciate you being so respectful. I get your point. I know it can be very frustrating to be turned away because you're not attractive to the other person. I asked a guy I had a crush on to prom in high school, and he rejected me, and it was very rough. So I can't imagine how disheartening it is to go through that over and over again. But from my angle, it's frustrating when incels act like women are evil for not having sex with/dating them. My boyfriend looks nothing like "Chad", but I love him and we have a great relationship.
Some women, especially those in college, are pretty catty. But it seems like frat guys are the same. I'm a straight woman, though, so I don't truly know what it's like to date/try to date a woman. I don't know if you're an incel or just an observer, or what your past is.
I have a long-term gf of 6 years but I have a lot of sympathy and understanding of the incel plight as I was a very late starter and an incel for over 10 years.
I can't speak for all incels but I don't think most literally think women are evil, but they are completely, and understandably, frustrated with how badly the cards are stacked against the below average male today. And obviously, our one consistent, dominating drive, much like needing to eat and drink and sleep, is to have sex and to procreate (have relationships), so when you are denied that outlet for your primal urges then of course you're going to be angry and frustrated. Yes, some take it too far and allow their emotions to cloud what they say but for the most part I think incels hate the 'system' rather than the individuals.
And then to rub it in they are the only section of society that the, usually, 'tolerant' left happily and openly vilify and ask them to accept all responsibility for their failures, while openly supporting and accepting the nuanced factors that afflict and determine the makeup of every other group in society. Hell, I've seen more support for pedos than I have for incels in the media.
I think a lot of this derives from the fact that men and women, on the whole, are in different situations, and thus women are unable to truly understand where incels are coming from. There is a reason, after all, that the vast majority of incels are male, and it's because women, in general, have a much easier time of it when it comes to the sexual marketplace. In the same way that I wouldn't pretend to know what it's like growing up in a gang-infested, drug-riddled community and the impact that would have on my outlook on life, I don't think that most women can ever really know what it's like to grow up as a below-average male in the modern world. That might sound a little hyperbolic but hopefully you get the idea.
I'm not going to dispute your life experience, but I do want to dispute this point that you made:
There is a reason, after all, that the vast majority of incels are male, and it's because women, in general, have a much easier time of it when it comes to the sexual marketplace.
I can't argue about how many incels are male, but your explanation of why is just your speculation. You presented it as fact and I don't think that's appropriate.
Here's another explanation (and yours and mine are not mutually exclusive, they may work together to contribute to the phenomenon of most incels being male):
Women are socially conditioned from a young age to internalize our problems, so when things don't go well for us, we tend to blame ourselves. Incels blame women for their issues with women. Women who struggle with rejection from males are more likely to blame themselves than the males who reject them.
E.g., the female mindset probably tends to be: "I must be too ugly or fat for him to be interested in me. I guess I just suck." whereas the male mindset is: "She thinks I'm too ugly for her? She didn't even give me a chance. Sheneeds to be less shallow."
Thank you for wading in here. I'm not an incel or a guy, but I think I can shed some light on things a bit.
When you say that "some people click", what do you mean by that? What I think you mean, is that your animal brain has decided that you are attracted to someone, usually due to totally superficial cues. It is not based on any kind of moral or rational evaluation of someone. Someone can be a terrible person, but if your amygdala decides that they're hot, then you'll find all sorts of excuses to justify it.
I'm very forgiving of this, because I remember being like that. I think most people are shallow before they develop enough self knowledge to contextualize and process their more primitive and shallow impulses. But you should really try to understand yourself. This is the same phenomenon that would induce you to be racist toward someone or trust someone less because they have skin blemishes. Accept that you are human, but try to still be a better person when you can.
But anyway, it can be really hurtful when you give this long and obviously self deluded confabulated explanation about why you like Chad. It is hurtful because people read this as you lying to them, even if you don't think you're being dishonest.
Look, a gender-reversed analogue to this situation would be if your boyfriend left you for another girl who was much less intelligent and attractive, but she dressed like a tramp and did whatever your boyfriend said. And when confronted, your boyfriend kept coming up with these ludicrous justifications like "oh, uh she's so smart, I mean, not book smart, and not smart-smart, but um, she just seems really smart to me". Wouldn't that make it hurt even more? He should just admit that he has a shallow and pointless attraction and own it.
I couldn't get past the first few sentences last time, so I apologize for my hasty reply.
Now listen here.
some people have the capacity to decide that superficial qualities are less important than intrinsic qualities.
Lotta people do.
You can't assume everyone is the same
Cuz it seems like you are, and that's where it could be argued that you're making an error.
You're still kind of a cucktard who needs to get overthemselves imo but who the fuck gives a shit honestly. I'm sure you dont broadcast your beliefs in public, but if you do, I'm sure they're at complimentary establishments and then who gives a shit.
So you do you, but hopefully people whose (who's? I look forward to being condescendingly corrected) opinions are similar to mine out-vote you and your likeminded cohorts when we can, because rn the countries in kind of a bad way and a turn around might be a good idea.
Beyond that, if you decide to go to a neutral bar and talk about how you feel respectfully, maybe there'd be a good conversation. Or a church if you want but whatever. Cucktard.
You tried really hard to interpret what I meant by "some people click", but you're wrong. I'm automatically comfortable around some people, and others I'm not. For example, I'd be very uncomfortable around an arrogant douche canoe like you. That's because I think arrogance is a terrible personality trait, as its often used because the person feels superior to others. But you claimed that I don't have/follow a moral compass, so that MUST be wrong.
I'll make it simple for you. I know who I do and don't like. And Its not just because of their physical appearance.
I think you have a really healthy attitude. I don't have these feelings, but I can sympathize with the misdirected rage of incels, and I certainly also was not talking about you.
I wish there were more like you. The truth is though, some women really are attracted to immoral people.
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They don't get sex because they're indecent, but in spite of it. Also, rape/domestic abuse is not "sexual success," it's assault and a crime in most countries. Because those are probably the bullies you mean without realizing it. Or maybe you consider bullies people with self-confidence and assertive personalities. One will never know...
That's pretty much the opposite of true. If a woman likes you, and you put in an effort to make her life richer and better and more enjoyable, she'll be less likely to leave than if you simply count down the days until she dumps you.
If you get a date, go into the experience with joy and excitement! Dating someone is supposed to be FUN. Go out, do fun things together! Talk and get to know each other! Make friends with HER friends, and introduce her to yours! Enjoy the experience, and use some empathy to imagine what you can do to make sure SHE enjoys the experience too.
The idea is to marry someone who shares a mutual love with you, and you continually maintain your relationship so neither one of you wants to leave. A lot of people manage this.
If you feel you're missing out, then what are you going to do about it?
The idea is to marry someone who shares a mutual love with you, and you continually maintain your relationship so neither one of you wants to leave. A lot of people manage this.
Except she has the threat of leaving you at all times and can do whatever the fuck she wants.
If you feel you're missing out, then what are you going to do about it?
Nice try trying to provoke me you fucking peice of shit, but if you want to know, then it's the same I've been doing for years, being treated like shit because I can't get a woman.
You could always leave her too, you know. There are a lot of no-fault divorce states these days. In fact, if she ends up having a better career than you, you could even end up getting alimony for awhile!
the same I've been doing for years
Who was it that said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"?
You could always leave her too, you know. There are a lot of no-fault divorce states these days. In fact, if she ends up having a better career than you, you could even end up getting alimony for awhile!
I'd rather have her be with me, and alimony would just be a motivator to make sure I never make enough money to attract a woman.
Because a woman has things to gain and she would be less crippled by the divorce and still be able to get on her feet afterwards and get in a relationship. it would be a hell of a lot easier for her than the guy who loses his job, is robbed by his wife, is robbed by the government for his wife, has no chance of getting with a woman again and has had been slandered by being called an abuser?
Huh... I went through a divorce. I didn't lose my job, get robbed by my wife, get robbed by the government, and I've been with several women since my divorce.
My sister got divorced, she didn't ask for anything other than to NOT be saddled with her ex's huge debt he rang up. She doesn't get child support or alimony or anything.
Seriously, how skewed is your view of women here? Jeez, they're just people, dude. They just have different parts between their legs but they're still people, like you.
Yes, women are people, murderers are people do but that isn't a reason to be lenient with them, besides of the "women" interested in me 3 out of 4 actually had the same parts between their legs as me which I think says a lot about the current state of the dating market.
What's your sample size on which you're basing your conclusion that my experience is rare? Given that nearly half of marriages end in divorce, and it doesn't seem like there are terribly many destitute people out there, OR people getting jailed based on trumped-up abuse charges, I'm inclined to think that my experience is NOT the aberration.
Murderers don't make up 50% of the population. And given the fact that you hate the entire demographic you're trying to date, I'm not sure you're having a typical experience with the "current state of the dating market."
So if it is not personality, not looks either (since many couples are ugly).. then it must be certain actions then, maybe? It doesn't have to be a bully. But try to think harder and find the answer. I do not know the truth, but I have my guesses.
It's more simple, you should be nice to everyone. Girls, boys, pretty and ugly. It doesn't have anything to do with relationships or sex. If you are only nice to the girl tou wanna fuck you are not a nice person.
Ok, so an incel is nice to everyone, but falls for a girl that they are being nice to. He'll still get shit on by normies using exactly the same argument. Or are we supposed to assume that every single incel is only ever nice to girls they want to sleep with and horrible to everyone else?
Why would you get shit on for being nice? You get shit on for asuming that girls are going to have sex with you only because you are nice to them. It is like expecting a raise for arriving at work always at the correct hour, it's something that you are expected to do, and not only when the meeting is work-related. (Sorry for my english I expect you can understand what i'm saying)
Meanwhile women freely and openly bitch about guys who fucked them but don't commit afterwards. It's almost like they think men are machines were you put in sex and a relationship falls out 🤔
That is actually a really weird and troublesome tendency with a lot of girls I know.. (I'm 33f)
My best friend has a 12 y/o with a a girl he was dating I'm high school who intentionally got pregnant despite knowing he didn't want a kid, and used the child as leverage against him ever since. She used to be a friend of mine. I broke ties with her because of what she did to my bud.
I can't know how prevelant this or any human tendency is, but I've seen it in other girls enough to be wary of it in myself.
That's actually a pretty succinct juxtaposition of metaphors there, nice work
It is not personality per se, since people use this word poorly (me including) but your mindset. It is mental stuff that is keeping you from attracting women. You can not really change your personality, but you can mold it a bit and achieve healthy habits, attitude and finally - proper mindset, which is not pitying yourself, not complaining about stuff you can not change because it is waste of energy, trying to find happiness elsewhere before you try to find happiness in other people etc.
Personality is quite ambiguous word and I doubt people (especially incels) use it properly when discussing relationships.
Be a nice person because it's the good thing to do. Don't be nice to expect anything back from someone, do it because you want to. Don't have selective kindess where you're only nice to people you want to fuck, because people will see you're only putting on a fake personality and therefore won't want to interact with you.
Because acting like a fuckwit will make sure people won't like you in general.
Someone has to like you before they'll want to sleep with you.
p.s.
No, there is no guarantee that someone who likes you will sleep with you. Furthermore, if you're just chasing after someone for sex, you're not actually "nice" you're being an asshole.
Nah, it's really because you are butt ugly to look at. But telling you it's your personality gives you hope that you can change yourself. And what is life without hope?
Did you just say that I shouldn't be an asshole to get laid on a thread that mocks people who think not being an asshole will get you laid?
Thks for assuming that Im an asshole who doesn't know how to get dressed tho, and completely ignoring the link that shows how women have absurdly high standards for male attractiveness.
Why would I want to shut you up? Like in your twisted world I'm so devious that I'm thinking "oh I hate this guy, let me lie to him and give him some hope that he can get laid by lying to him about something that I know is impossible to achieve!"
You messaged less than 54 women? Well idk how you expected anything from that.
I'm saying instead of expecting the world to change, you should change. That doesn't mean have no sex drive you idiot. That means use your sex drive to be a better person. The kind of person women want to have sex with. It's honestly not that difficult if you give enough of a shit to make the change instead of spending your time on a sub filled with other frustrated men who also can't get laid. Like if it's so important to you then I would expect you'd spend more time in bars or clubs trying to approach women. Or you'd be on tinder bumble and okcupid and messaging every single women you come across. I figured you'd read some books on how to attract women or go on r/seduction to get some advice.
Instead you do nothing but message 20 women and complain that they didn't respond when they saw your shitty tinder pictures that you took in your dirty bathroom mirror.
You can't change the world. Only you can change. Or you can just keep bitching about it. Totally up to you.
Huh... I went through a divorce. I didn't lose my job, get robbed by my wife, get robbed by the government, and I've been with several women since my divorce.
My sister got divorced, she didn't ask for anything other than to NOT be saddled with her ex's huge debt he rang up. She doesn't get child support or alimony or anything.
Seriously, how skewed is your view of women here? Jeez, they're just people, dude. They just have different parts between their legs but they're still people, like you.
And you've got something better...? Stats and studies to prove... what exactly? That having unlikeable character traits and poor social skills isn't an impediment to finding a partner? Do me a favour.
287 comments
1 AbuIncelAlAustrali 2018-05-22
The numale cuck is sweating trying to come up with an excuse.
"erm ah self improvement" phew that was a close one
1 The_GreyPill 2018-05-22
So this sub and its members pride itself on being black pilled. Black pill, I assume, is the bitter, harsh, but ultimately most accurate truths pertaining to gender and sexual dynamics. In order to be properly black pilled, you presumably had to go through some sort of introspective journey that involves critical think and examination of the blue pill. So why is it that members here do not attempt to use the same critical thinking before posting obviously fallacious straw mans of the "other" side's argument?
The question OP rhetorically asks is very easy to answer by any one who claims to be intelligent enough to derive the black pill. Women are looking for a variety of traits which are weighted differently depending on the woman. Just because you have one of the traits does not necessarily push you past the threshold of romantic interest.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-22
Genetic fitness and then personality traits. This thread is obviously satire. You could also use a little less verbosity.
1 shabangcohen 2018-05-22
Yeah, and women will admit they filter for looks then personality. Yup. And so do men. So fucking what?Why do you guys circlejerk like "women care about looks" as if that fact makes them any shallower than you are.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-22
The filtering happens on the different scale.
There's a permeating masculine standard, whereas female standards actually vary.
All accompanied by useless advice and platitudes that have no bearing or meaning on the actual sexual selection but designed for the giver of the said advice to feel good.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Because women consider so few men to be attractive...
1 dullsite 2018-05-22
90% of you dumb fucks need to be beaten over the head with peer reviewed study after peer reviewed study, and still refuse to admit there needs to be physical attraction for a relationship to work.
1 shabangcohen 2018-05-22
Literally 100% of women will agree that physical attraction is necessary....
1 dullsite 2018-05-22
I come across multiple women that refuse to admit that every time I'm on here.
1 f0me 2018-05-22
Even if they do admit it, so what? You going to magically make them wanna sleep with you now? How does forcing them to admit that physical attractiveness is important help you in any way?
1 dullsite 2018-05-22
The fuck are you talking about?
1 The_GreyPill 2018-05-22
You left out qualities like financial resources (inherited or earned), professional status, etc. This is important because:
Not a good look for your judgment of verbosity when I had to help fill out the incomplete and distorted assertion you made two sentences earlier. Simple minded people do tend to hate prolonged and in depth nuanced discussions, so if overly simplified bite sized dialogue is what you're looking for, you can try twitter.
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-22
Implications do not require explicit pronouncement if both parties understand what is being implied. If anything, I've made an error in judgement and thought we were relatively on the same page.
Incomplete - yes (see earlier) but distorted? What exactly is being distorted in my statement?
If you value attention to detail then you should employ less prosaic gaps in your statements, because
2 points 46 minutes ago So this sub and its members pride itself on being black pilled. Black pill, I assume, is the bitter, harsh, but ultimately most accurate truths pertaining to gender and sexual dynamics. In order to be properly black pilled, you presumably had to go through some sort of introspective journey that involves critical think and examination of the blue pill. So why is it that members here do not attempt to use the same critical thinking before posting obviously fallacious straw mans of the "other" side's argument?
does not qualify as nuance but rather an attempt to present yourself as a philosophically intelligent person, however, it came off as you being unabashedly pretentious.
1 The_GreyPill 2018-05-22
If you truly believed that implications do not require explicit pronouncement and made the assumption that we were "relatively on the same page" you would have never needed to make your comment expanding on what qualities and traits I was referring to in the first place. The fact that you did directly contradict what you're now trying to claim. This continues to get more embarrassing.
So I can anticipate the paragraphs of back and forth we can have on this because this is a grey area of pedantic that you can effectively obfuscate through either your bad faith or your intellectual inability to derive correct inferences based on agreed upon (by academics) modern usage of language. Without an educated and qualified moderator on this discussion, there's really no way I have to stop you from using either your bad faith or potential intellectual inability to derail it.
But the gist of it is this. Your response was made to my comment about a list of traits women look for. You listed only two traits out of many more traits. This arbitrary "explicit pronouncement" of a couple of traits and the leaving out of what you assumed to be "implications" of other traits necessarily distorts what that original list is (both in your mind and mine). And in order to properly get rid of the arbitrary nature of your "explicit pronouncement", you'd have to make an argument for why those two traits supercedes all other traits and why other traits are weighted so little that they do not need to be included in your original comment. But to do this, you'd have to actually engage in thoughtful, nuanced, and in depth discussion. And this all goes to my point that your indictment of verbosity was pretty a "pretty bad look" given how much more your comments and thoughts need to be fleshed out in order to get your correct meaning across.
But again, you can always just try twitter if that's more your thing.
A few things I'll unpack here:
You don't understand the reason behind what you quoted because you either lack the reading comprehension skills to derive meaning and context beyond what's explicitly spoonfed to you, or because you are acting in bad faith. The more I talk to you, the more I'm inclined to believe in your intellectual limitation.
I am objectively and factually intelligent by the standard of any measurements that have predictive abilities of success in intellectually demanding tasks. This is not up for debate, but you can still diminish by intelligence through logical fallacies or obfuscation. I can recommend you a few good ones if you don't want to expand the creative energy to come up with any.
1 fuckredditors2 2018-05-22
Yes he would have, because you're an antagonistic strawman loving fuckwit.
Yeah, for you, smug fucking moron.
So, kind of like what you're doing? Except not as bad.
You're typing fucking paragraphs. Stop. Indictment? Try using the word claim, you pseudointellectual shitstain.
You say this because the person disagrees with you, and that is the ONLY fucking reason. You are a trash pile of human fucking waste that looks up more garbage in a dictionary to desperately come across as better than everyone in this sub because you're fucking pathetic. But then again, maybe that's just as fucking awfully baseless conjecture as you use yourself.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHa...haha..HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhh...oh my god.. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA-
1 counterfitfake 2018-05-22
This whole back and fourth was amazing. Can't tell if Iamverysmart or trolling.
1 Iagoingsoc 2018-05-22
If that's verbose to you it goes to partly explain your poor reasoning, I guess
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-22
There are ways to express same ideas without that many words. I'm perfectly capable of understanding what the person is saying but the intent coupled with provocatory approach gave me an idea to point out the verbosity of the message.
More words doesn't mean more sense.
1 shockinghillaryquote 2018-05-22
lol
1 NeedinStitches 2018-05-22
I don't say the whole personality thing but niceness is not at all the same thing. When women say that line about not being sex machines it refers to men who act 'nice' to get sex. But niceness is something that people expect as a base level not as a substitute for personality.
1 _THE_END_IS_NIGH_ 2018-05-22
That must be why Meeks got crowdfunded and got into modelling.
He is the real nice guy not at all like these posers pfft.
1 NeedinStitches 2018-05-22
Ah yes all women are a hivemind.
Just like how all men are rapists and mass murderers like Meeks and the highschool boys who keep shooting up their schools. That is a very logical thought process isn't it?
1 _THE_END_IS_NIGH_ 2018-05-22
Meeks was crowd funded, look it up, women threw their money to get him out.
The large army of fangirls is also the reason why he is a model right now, just take one look at his Instagram.
Hell he even got together with a billionaire heirness.
What conclusion are we supposed to draw from this.
Except I never claim men are a hive-mind. They aren't, they display a wide variety in almost any field or topic.
1 NeedinStitches 2018-05-22
Thanks for the hypocrisy mate that's all I needed and expected from an incel.
1 _THE_END_IS_NIGH_ 2018-05-22
If we all were like Meeks then we wouldn't be having trouble getting laid silly.
1 Ogrecel 2018-05-22
Because they want us to not to be mean to them, but they're too cowardly to admit that being nice/not mean is irrelevant to being an incel so they lie.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-22
Shhh. If you uncover their secrets, they might stop screenshotting you!
Yes, it's all a ploy. They couldn't care less if we're happy or ever find a woman. Their goal is to keep incels "nice" and docile because they're afraid we'll murder and rape people otherwise.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Keeping us nice is making it worse anyway...
1 f0me 2018-05-22
Tell that to the students who's friends were murdered by angry incels that you martyr
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-22
Incels didn't murder those students.
Just because it was an angry stalker male who wanted sex doesn't mean he's part of the incel community or even identifies as incel.
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
Damn, amazing social awareness. You'd totally be a clever manipulative chad if it wasn't ogre for you.
1 Ogrecel 2018-05-22
Maybe I could advise a coven of ogres, directing their actions against Normie villages. But I don't like telling people to do things :(
1 endmysuffering1 2018-05-22
high iq
1 ibtem 2018-05-22
it really is lol, they are literally telling us to be nicer to get sex
oh IM SORRY IT: "genuinely" nicer.
1 BetaChad69 2018-05-22
over 90 iq to realize that
1 Seductive_Squid 2018-05-22
Because a shitty personality is just one part of it but a part that stands out, being “nice” so you can get sex or use ‘uggos’ to boost your confidence is not as genuinely nice as you may think.. Why? Because look at all the blatantly public woman-hating going on when you’re trying to get.. women. It’s rather backwards.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-22
no true niceguy fallacy
1 IncelistanWillRise 2018-05-22
Why don't nice guys get pussy? It must be their perso- ah wait, no, it's because women aren't sex machines! Haha gotcha, evil Nazi misogynist!
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Being nice to people isn't a guarantee of sex, but having an unlikeable personality is a serious impediment to it. That's what it means.
There are nuances to that. It's not a complete impediment, and not the only impediment. 'Unlikeable' doesn't just mean abusive or mean, it can also mean boring, or difficult to connect with, or myriad other negative traits.
Also if you are only acting nice to someone in order to get them to do stuff for you then by very definition you are not 'nice', but manipulative and disregarding and disrespecting the other person's agency and personhood.
1 sereese1 2018-05-22
Jesus christ, you're a voice of fucking reason. Fly you fool!
1 MozzerDozzer 2018-05-22
Don't be a kissass.
1 TreesnCats 2018-05-22
It's one of the more terrible reddit memes, you pretend the person pandering is the only logical dude in the thread and say "get outta here with your logic!"
1 Mr_Breast 2018-05-22
He's the voice of r/IncelTears, which is the opposite of reason.
1 Fudde 2018-05-22
It's a shame this thread is being brigaded or else we would have some actual discussion and debate on why the comment above yours is bullshit, but as we see below people who are making that atte,pt are being swarmed with downvotes. And worthless comments like yours are being upvoted. :/
It's why even normal people on this site don't like r/IncelTears.
1 fabbez98 2018-05-22
Why do numales talk like this
1 Mr_Breast 2018-05-22
Because simply this:
Isn;t hilariously quirky enough.
1 CountyMcCounterson 2018-05-22
The soy in their diet has increased their estrogen levels turning them into feminine men. As they become more feminine they begin to show female characteristics like being a hive-mind and sucking cock.
1 Fudde 2018-05-22
It's a shame this thread is being brigaded. or else we would have some actual discussion and debate on why the comment above yours is bullshit. Instead, as we see below, people who are making that attempt are being swarmed with downvotes. And useless comments like yours are being upvoted. :/
It sucks, but at least it proves how worthless the upvote/downvote scoring system is.
1 Fudde 2018-05-22
It's a shame this thread is being brigaded, or else we would have some actual discussion and debate on why the comment above yours is bullshit. Instead, as we see below, people who are making that attempt are being swarmed with downvotes. And useless comments like yours are being upvoted. :/
It sucks, but at least it proves how worthless the upvote/downvote scoring system is.
1 sereese1 2018-05-22
Oh, thats because the original comment is sufficient enough to voice my opinion.I'm just agreeing on it in a sarcastic way, because honestly? Many of you arent rational enough to have a pointless discussion with. You have your emotional, dreary blamegame on everything but yourself, and we try our darndest to show it to you in all the wrong ways. So let me be emphathetic: Blaming everyone but yourself is tempting, and I have been doing it alot in my life. I get why you do it. Its still the wrong way to go in life, turns anger of rejection into poisonous thoughts that just spreads and spreads, because it seems easier than to face the fact that the reason you're alone is you yourself.
1 CommonMisspellingBot 2018-05-22
Hey, sereese1, just a quick heads-up:
alot is actually spelled a lot. You can remember it by it is one lot, 'a lot'.
Have a nice day!
The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
1 Fudde 2018-05-22
We're rational enopugh to not downvote someone just because we disagree with them.
1 Throughanightmare 2018-05-22
You what mate?
1 Fudde 2018-05-22
You need to look up the definition of "contributing", idiot.
1 Throughanightmare 2018-05-22
You need to learn how to press the giant and very obvious button, you fucking troglodyte.
1 Cissnowflake 2018-05-22
As long as we can agree that shy, socially awkward men are the REAL abusers, we can move forward.
🙄
1 Detoxification- 2018-05-22
It's an impediment if you're unattractive. Any Chad, regardless of personality,
When you use the word "just", you imply that abusiveness or meanness are "unlikeable" traits, and therefore, in your words, "serious impediments" to having sex. However, this is incorrect. Numerous studies showing that possessing Dark Triad traits (e.g., an "asshole" mentality) is conducive to obtaining sexual relationships with women.
In truth, classically "nice" men don't suffer from a poor or uninteresting personality. Many of these men are actually insightful and interesting people. Think about it. Who would you be able to have a more insightful conversation with? A "nice guy" like Bill Gates, or a "bad boy" like Jeremy Meeks. This is thus just a shaming tactic used in order to gaslight them. The reality is that even nice men when genuinely good personalities are rejected in favour of hypermasculine sociopaths. This is what's never discussed when people talk about "personality"—the female conception of a "good personality" is incredibly vain and superficial, and contrary to what most men would consider a .
Who said anyone is "acting nice"? Maybe we're actually nice. This is something women bring up a lot whenever "nice guys" are mentioned, and it is thus . That if someone is
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
That's simply not true. If Chad into shy to hold a conversation with a woman and/or is openly hostile from the get-go, and has no confidence or charisma, it's very unlikely he'll get much sex.
That's not what it means at all. Obviously, mean and abusive people do get laid. The difference is though that they usually have enough good traits about them to disguise or outweigh their bad traits long enough to get laid. By good traits, yes, that could mean looks, but also things like charisma, being fun, and, the one that always gets ignored on this sub being able to connect with the person they are talking to. Even the Chaddiest Chad in the world will have some women turn him down because they find him boring or they just don't gel together. But if you try and sleep with someone who you have no connection to, whilst being boring, painfully unconfident, then you're probably going to fail, whether you're nice or not.
Also, as for dark triad traits, well of course they are conducive to getting sex, since by definition some of the characteristics include extremely high confidence, charisma, lying, manipulation, and attention to your own physical attractiveness. Having sex does not equal having a meaningful romantic bond though... and, as the incel sidebar used to say, if all that mattered was pure sex you'd just pay a prostitute.
Firstly, Bill Gates is married, so he's not a great example. Also, no one has ever said being nice in itself is a bad thing. It's just a baseline. If you're not absolutely stunningly attractive you have to be nice, but that's not the only thing you need. Also, you're forgetting that different women are different and have different preferences. Many women would prioritise the intellectual conversation Bill Gates could offer over the chiselled cheekbones of Jeremy Meeks. Whereas some women (just like some men) aren't particularly into stimulating intellectual conversation and would prefer a hot bod, plus whatever Jeremy Meeks has to talk about. I don't know what that is, but let's say he likes to talk about his hilarious drunken antics and all the times his friends got up to shit. To some people, that's way more fun and interesting than anything Bill Gates could ever talk about.
If that were true then all men would have cultivated dazzling personalities for themselves, which they clearly have not. It's just a fact different people of both sexes have different ideas of what constitutes interesting.
Well, because the quote in the title of this post is usually said when a guy gets angry at not being able to sleep with a girl he was 'nice' to, which by definition means he wasn't being genuinely nice, because if you are genuinely nice then the person's happiness is the only reward you need.
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
Ah yes, this old chestnut. I always find it cute that women actually think men care about them enough at the start that they will do nice things for them, expecting nothing in return. No man (Chad included) does anything nice for women they are trying to sleep with because they just want to see the other person happy. They're not in love with you ffs, they barely even know you yet. The only difference is that the men that the woman actually ends up sleeping with/dating obviously never end up complaining about their 'niceness' not being exchanged for sex as they got the sex/relationship. Which of course leaves the 'nice guys' who get dumped on for acting in exactly the same way that Chad was, in terms of being 'nice.'
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Spoken like a man who has never been friends with a woman. (I mean real friends. Not friendzoned where you want to fuck her and she just wants you around to make her feel better)
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Yeah and actually most women won't expect a man to do 'nice' things for them out of the blue when they're not dating, beyond things that can be considered common courtesy or things you might also do for a friend or colleague of the same gender who you didn't fancy. That's not how most romances start, despite what rom coms will have you believe, in fact it can just be annoying or embarrassing or a bit of a red flag. Most relationships start with talking to someone and connecting with them, finding them interesting or funny, and physically attractive, then progressing to the next stage. Apart from one-night-stands which may start with physical attraction and may end at physical attraction too.
1 Detoxification- 2018-05-22
This is false, and demonstrably so. Tinder.
This is what I'm getting at in my claim that the female perception of a good personality is not consistent with the male perception of a good personality. Women evaluate personalities at a very superficial level—if a man's personality seems "fun" and induces a dopamine rush in the woman's mind, that man has a "good" personality, irrespective of considerations like integrity, honesty, law-abidingness, etc. which most people associate with having a good personality.
For instance, most men would describe a serial killer as having a bad personality even if that serial killer is charismatic, but women do not, because, as you've stated, charisma and "funness" outweighs any bad traits for women.
Okay, so, again, let's be real about what females mean when they talk about a "good personality". They're referring to low-inhibition, narcissism, lack of remorse, and dominance. This is what females are attracted to.
This is a classical motte and bailey trick. The motte here is the connotation generically associated with the phrase "good personality", namely, as I mentioned above, kindness, integrity, respect, etc. The bailey is that your notion of a "good personality" is actually a sociopath's personality.
Irrelevant. Are you retarded? You can assess whether or not a man has, in principle, a personality which can be regarded as "attractive" regardless of whether or not
Yes, women consider sociopaths to have "good" personalities. Most men don't, which why we've created a justice system to ensure such deviants are kept away.
That's false as well. You can be a genuinely nice person and still expect your niceness to yield at least a modicum of reward. If you're nice as a default, but women reject you regardless, then complaining about this fact doesn't mean that your niceness was originally disingenuous. All it means is that you've recognized an inconsistency between what women purport to desire in men (honesty, integrity, virtue) and what they actually desire (superficial notions of "funness", typically manifesting in sociopathic behaviour) and you're legitimately calling them out on it.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
You were implying that someone like Bill Gates is totally unattractive to women. The fact that he is attractive proves otherwise.
No I'm not. That is a fact of life. Maybe you've been hanging out in the wrong circles if that's the impression you're getting.
If you genuinely think being fun and interesting are straight-up sociopathic traits then I suspect your inceldom stems from far deeper problems. If you don't fit in, it feels nice to tell yourself that everyone else are terrible people. But ultimately, what feels even nicer is to learn to fit in with them.
1 sparrowfiend 2018-05-22
Really stop and think about what it means to have an "attractive personality". You might as well say that someone has an attractive spirit aura. Does it mean that they are the same as you? Or is it that they are different and it contrasts with you? Don't worry, your mind will find some excuse for you to be attracted to Chad. You can fill in the details later. The fact is, what you call a "good personality" is totally arbitrary, and usually comes from your what your amygdala wants. Only later, after your irrational animal brain has decided that you like someone, does the rest of your mind try to justify it. Basically, humans are really unfair and superficial at how they judge people.
At least most guys admit how shallow they are, while I have noticed women under 25 tend to delude themselves and justify who they are attracted to. This is the same phenomenon that is I think behind a lot of subtle racism. A black guy comes in the room, and all the sudden you feel "unsafe", but you can't say why, and you just feel compelled to leave.
I've seen girls chase after guys who have no redeeming qualities, because they misinterpret him being a scumbag with him being strong. Hell, men who are actual serial killers and rapists get love letters in prison. Ted Bundy was super hot and was easily able to seduce his victims. I've seen people confabulate the most ludicrous explanations for why they are attracted to unworthy people.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
You do know Bill Gates is not an incel right? He got pussy why? Because he was nice, interesting and was not painful to the eyes ugly. Bill Gates is a genius, you on the other hand, not so much.
1 Detoxification- 2018-05-22
You forgot the “filthy rich” part.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
Bill gates became rich in 1981 just becoming a millionaire. Bill and Mary got married in the 1950s.
1 Detoxification- 2018-05-22
The 1950s. The good old, patriarchal days. Wish I’d been born then.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
Yea thats dumb, you’d he fearing for your life in the midst of the cold war and the haircuts were fucking awful.
1 uglyfucker_ 2018-05-22
What? lol a quick google search shows me that Bill Gates was born in 1955 and married his wife in 1994 lmao
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
Fuck wikipedia is a bitch
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-22
low iq comment.
its always funny how women are both poor victims who get manipulated by evil abusers and then profi psychologist who can see that someone is not genuin by just looking at his face.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Your comment doesn't even make sense. In the specific context we're talking about here, the women in question clearly weren't successfully manipulated, hence the NiceGuy's need to whine about how he didn't get laid despite being nice.
Anyhow, more generally speaking, if you have an abusive personality and very high levels of charisma and social skills, then you will find it easy to manipulate and abuse people (this applies to both genders). If you have very low charisma and social skills then your abusive personality will shine through in your voice and actions as if you had it printed on your forehead.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-22
"just become better at manipulating, bro"
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
You are so fucking clueless... Women won't even have a conversation with someone who isn't attractive...
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Not true. My friend is hideous and he has had sex with 54 women so far (we counted) because he is charismatic as fuck.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Sure...
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Why would I ever lie about something so petty? Is it so hard to believe that someone ugly can get laid? Is it so hard to tell yourself that the only reason you can't get laid is yourself? That no one is to blame for your situation than yourself?
Take some personal responsibility and stop expecting the world to change to fit your shitty needs. (Needs being sticking your dick on someone you have 0 respect for).
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Because you want to shut us up.
Yes, it's harder to believe an ugly dude can get laid by more women than I messaged on a dating site with my dirt low standards and a giant search radius.
Right, just stop havig a sex drive, it's so easy...
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Why would I want to shut you up? Like in your twisted world I'm so devious that I'm thinking "oh I hate this guy, let me lie to him and give him some hope that he can get laid by lying to him about something that I know is impossible to achieve!"
You messaged less than 54 women? Well idk how you expected anything from that.
I'm saying instead of expecting the world to change, you should change. That doesn't mean have no sex drive you idiot. That means use your sex drive to be a better person. The kind of person women want to have sex with. It's honestly not that difficult if you give enough of a shit to make the change instead of spending your time on a sub filled with other frustrated men who also can't get laid. Like if it's so important to you then I would expect you'd spend more time in bars or clubs trying to approach women. Or you'd be on tinder bumble and okcupid and messaging every single women you come across. I figured you'd read some books on how to attract women or go on r/seduction to get some advice.
Instead you do nothing but message 20 women and complain that they didn't respond when they saw your shitty tinder pictures that you took in your dirty bathroom mirror.
You can't change the world. Only you can change. Or you can just keep bitching about it. Totally up to you.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
It might have been just over, somewhere around there at least, I didn't expect anything but if I was told that within the 5 year age range and ~150 mile radius there would only be about 54 girls on there who were recently online who are either white or Asian and aren't landwhales I wouldn't have bothered trying online dating in the first place. My standards were reasonably low but still not met.
I'm not expecting it to change, I just recognize that is what's necessary for life to improve.
I don't have the face for it. Women aren't going to be more attracted to me regardless.
Can't drink and I don't want a girl who drinks.
I stopped using tinder because of my "friend" telling me it was only availible on phone so I never bothered checking to see if it was on PC without using an emulator. Regardless it's more for shallow stuff so I'd have even less of a chance on it. It also seems a bit sketchy in terms of how it reels people in, for example a "woman" I matched with messaged me first but it didn't seem to be an advertising bot or one that spread viruses or anything like that, she just said "hello" or something pretty standard like that and it ended there, I think I might have responded a day later and it didn't reply to send a link or anything just silence like I'd expect from a real woman, but I know that no woman would bother wasting her time on me. So that just reaks of sketchy practices to keep you hooked.
Sorry for not going after women 200 miles away or ones 10 years older than me?
1 Ansonfrog 2018-05-22
White or Asian? Racist preference much?
Don't want a girl who drinks; didn't respond for a day to a message? Yeah, it's not just your looks keeping you from dating.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
You wouldn't be caling my preferences racist if I only wanted blacks I'm sure... regardless everyone has racial preferences, I even went a bit outsie of mine to include asian women which I am generally attracted to but wouldn't want to have a kid with.
I never mention it.
It was one message and I assumed it was a bot.
pretty much only one actual reason for it...
1 morganella732 2018-05-22
Why are you criticizing women for allegedly not being interested in unattractive guys when you yourself have requirements for what a girl has to look like? If you can say you only want to be with white or asian girls who are of an average or less than average weight and don’t drink, then why should other people not have a right to only be with people they find physically attractive?
You also say that your face just isn’t one women will be attracted to. If there are people like you who are attracted to skinny white/asian women who don’t drink and can have such a preference, then it’s impossible for you not to be someone’s type.
About the tinder thing, the woman obviously found you attractive / her type enough to match with you. You took a day to reply, so either a) she thought you were uninterested, b) she didn’t like your reply, or c) she started chatting with someone she liked more in that period of time. I’m also not sure why you use “woman” in quotes. Saying “hello” is not a sketchy reply that proves she’s a bot. Her not replying is not a sketchy reply. There is literally nothing to suggest that you matched with her because she’s a boy.
Why do you have all of these hypocritical views? Why can men have preferences but if a woman does she’s shallow? I’m sure that women don’t pursue you not because they all hate you and are out to get you, but rather because you have backwards views on what to expect from them based on their gender and have such low self-esteem and high self-pity that they’re warded off.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Not drinking is a deal breaker and people have a tendency to prefer their own race, and I'd want a white girl for reproductive reasons so it's a lot different than women only wanting chads. most women these days put no effort into themselves because they can get whatever they want.
I don't get your logic at all but women have much more uniform tastes.
Well that's the thing, there IS nothing that suggests it was a bot which is why this tactic would work so well for the company to use it, it makes guys feel like they are wanted. It took me a day to reply because I doubted it was a real woman so I wasn't too bothered to reply. Like I said she messaged me the same day I signed up and she messaged me of all people, so that's two big red flags.
Men have more varied preferences.
No, it's more that they just aren't attracted to me, my conversations get cut off incredibly quickly.
1 morganella732 2018-05-22
Why do you think women have more uniform tastes and men have more varied preferences? What suggests that, besides women you know personally? I assume that must be what you’re basing your knowledge off of, but a sample size of 4 women doesn’t count.
Why can women not want “Chads” for reproductive reasons? Why the hell can you discriminate based on race for who you want to fuck but women can’t discriminate based on appearance?
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
My problem is that women are okay with a chad that fucks them and leaves them.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
What a ridiculous thing to say. Your knowledge of women clearly comes from sitcoms.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
No, it comes from trying to meet women...
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Ok, so women clearly do talk to unattractive men every day. So the question is why won't they talk to you. Well, I don't know, but I have some ideas. Perhaps you have poor social skills, which make you seem weird or simply unappealing to talk to. If you are trying to take to women in places like a bar or club, then it's they may not be looking for a man, in which case random men (regardless of attractiveness) coming up to talk to you is just annoying, especially since, in such an environment, you know what their end goal is and you already know they're not going to get it so why bother even talking. Alternatively, maybe they are looking for a man, but the above would still apply: they if you're unattractive, there's no point wasting either of your time. But that only really applies to situations where it is known that people go to pick up dates. If you are still in school, well, everyone's a douche at school, wait till you're out.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Why would a girl go to a club or bar if she wasn't trying to get a guy...
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
You're saying this as if women choose sexual partners the same way they choose friends, which couldn't be further from the truth.
A woman's male friend could be all the good things you just said, but yet remain his entire life in the friendzone.
Women choose sex partners based on much more primal traits, like strong jaws, facial symmetry, dominant/aggressive behavior, social status among peers.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Physical and sexual attraction are obviously a big part of it, but not the only part. The two go together.
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
It's a necessary part.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Yes necessary, but not the only necessary thing.
Also people in this sub way over-estimate the standard required to meet the definition of "attractive" for most women. Also not to mention the fact that women have varied tastes and what's attractive to one women won't be for another.
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
We do not over-estimate the standard required to meet the definition of "attractive" for most women because we experience it first-hand as ugly males.
Perhaps it is you who is WAY under-estimating it.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
About what I expected... I can't even begin to describe how bad of an idea it was to let women have sso much power over their sex lives.
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Holy shit you are pathetic.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
That's it? you can't even argue that it was a bad idea?
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
You should know that women perceive attractiveness based on more than just physical looks. If I have to rely on looks alone, then yea I would be an incel too. Talk to any women about what really gets them going and its a lot of nonphysical features. My gf gets really turned on seeing me interact with children. She loves when I get angry at someone (without losing control). There are tons of little things that increase her attraction to me that are not physical traits.
Women are not men. They do not choose partners based on physical traits alone. That being said, not all women are the same. Many have differences in what they view as attractive.
1 mazafakaaaa 2018-05-22
You are aware that those are NOT the things she was initially attracted to, right?
1 FilthyGypsey 2018-05-22
Lol yeah, women want to fuck men that they’re attracted to. Huge discovery. But also men want to fuck women they’re attracted to. So i guess the moral of the story is that people want to fuck people they’re attracted to. And I guess that means if you’re a fat awkward incel the only thing you could do to fix that is go to the fucking gym and start acting like a man if you want to get laid. Whoops! Secret’s out!
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
I've been going to the gym for years and I
1 gogolmogol 2018-05-22
In addition to not being a fatass, it also helps to work on your personality of not being an asshole, and to find decent well fitting clothes. Not the same clothes you wore when being said fat ass.
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
Did you just say that I shouldn't be an asshole to get laid on a thread that mocks people who think not being an asshole will get you laid?
Thks for assuming that Im an asshole who doesn't know how to get dressed tho, and completely ignoring the link that shows how women have absurdly high standards for male attractiveness.
1 gogolmogol 2018-05-22
Bro, your link doesn’t load for me. This brief interaction is mostly confirming that you’re entitled though, and I see a high correlation between being entitled and an asshole.
Physical attractiveness is a big factor but so is your personality. Im not going to speak for one-night stands, but a girlFRIEND is your best friend. You have to share some interests or goals together or it doesn’t work, unless you’re a total mode or filthy rich. Most men are neither of those and happen to be able to get laid.
Sorry, but painting Warhammer figurines (or whatever your hobbies may be) doesn’t really crossover gender boundaries. Find hobbies or activities you enjoy to participate in that also has significant involvement from the opposite sex.
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
Yeah, you're the only one coming across like an asshole in this exchange.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Fuck off, your head is so far up your ass you can't even hear us, women have insane standards, don't act like we are all the bottom of the barrel when most of us are average.
1 gogolmogol 2018-05-22
If women have insane standards, how did I get laid then?
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
I don't know your life so my guess is you're a chad lite with money.
1 gogolmogol 2018-05-22
Or just some dude who takes care of his appearance and appears to be fiscally responsible from the outside? Then yes
1 lukaku96 2018-05-22
I’m a 6-7 with a slight Dad bod but since I’m not a modern Neanderthal like 90% of this sub I have a girlfriend who’s not only out of my league, but is also my best friend.
1 KolaDesi 2018-05-22
Meanwhile I see average guys with a girlfriend everywhere.
Something doesn't check out.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
I usually just see guys alone when I'm out...
1 YiMainOnly 2018-05-22
Meanwhile gang members; murderers; seriel killers etc. Get laid all the time. Or just giant assholes overall
Fucking a mass murderers in many cases got engaged after getting sent to jail by females who saw them on TV and fell in love.
1 morganella732 2018-05-22
Serial* killers tend to be incredibly charismatic. Ted Bundy wasn’t above average in looks, but he was so charming that women and men alike fell to his feet. Abusers and cheaters tend to also have a very friendly and charismatic front as a way to trick people into being with them.
This is not because serial killers, abusers, cheaters, and gang members as a demographic tend to be more attractive, but rather that the thing they spend much of their time doing requires for them to be a charmer.
1 sparrowfiend 2018-05-22
You talk about people having this kind of animalistic charisma, but have you ever stopped to unpack exactly how that works? It's not magic, it's just behavior. It's crude, abusive, and violent.
Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you that being an abusive scumbag will get you laid. I never abused anyone, but I certainly projected that I did. It was all a lie of course, but I wanted to get laid, so I just emulated the behavior of guys I saw who were attractive to women. Make sure to talk about how you use physical violence against people who cross you, and how you enjoy hurting others. I once told a woman how I beat someone's dog because he nipped at me. Also, make sure to emphasize how you don't care about anyone but yourself, and certainly not your date, and that they are lucky you are even talking to them.
This is what society rewards and encourages. Trump would be a ladies man even if he were flat broke. There are many women who are attracted to personalities like his. I know you don't want to hear this, but it is true.
Of course, all of this matters a lot less when you get older. Men and Women become much more sensible after their early 20s.
1 morganella732 2018-05-22
Did I say that their charisma was magic? Obviously it’s behavior.
Being an abusive scumbag may get you laid, but only with a certain type of girls—those with little self-respect or self-confidence, or those who expect that kind of behavior due to familial abuse. Being a decent guy, who isn’t nice to girls just because he’s trying to fuck, has a much higher success rate with more women, I can assure you.
1 sparrowfiend 2018-05-22
I don't disagree with any of that. And I am certainly not advocating for being an asshole, ever. In my late teens, I was sexually frustrated, and I tried all sorts of things. Honestly it felt gross putting on the "alpha" guise, but I can't deny that it was effective.
So I can see how it seems dishonest when incels are given these mixed messages about how they should be nice, while at the same time Chad can be a tyrant and is rewarded with sexual attention. Of course it is not that simple, but that is how it can appear to a frustrated young man.
This all really comes down to people not knowing themselves, and most of this is mitigated with maturity.
1 morganella732 2018-05-22
Various studies about online dating found that women use more factors to determine attractiveness than men, which is primarily responsible for the rating discrepancy. Furthermore, women tend to post more flattering pictures of themselves to dating sites than men, which could definitely help with the difference.
The study also found that women on OkCupid value grammar more than body weight, so maybe the problem has less to do with your face and body than you think.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
Stopped reading there. Dumb normie cunt.
1 Notacel 2018-05-22
I can’t imagine why you haven’t gotten laid.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
"Hurr diz iz y u r incel bruh"
Stupid faggot. Drink your soy and shut the fuck up.
1 DJSkrillex 2018-05-22
I can see why you're an angry incel. Nobody would touch you with a 10 foot pole after hearing you talk.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
/u/GeneticCleansing
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
at least he gets laid
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
Sure. He takes turns with Tyrone, Brad and Chad. Or whoever else his slut roastie gf feels like letting in that week.
Also, /u/GeneticCleansing. You can get him too.
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
I'm sure you'd love to believe that. How cute.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, soyboy.
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Fuckin savage come back bro. Only a soyboy talks like a loser.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
/u/VonMagnar
1 VonMagnar 2018-05-22
Done.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
I wish I was Mod. I'd keep this place clean and actually do something.
1 VonMagnar 2018-05-22
Hey now, I'm trying ._.
1 maskedcel 2018-05-22
You're doing a great job. Fucking /u/board_gaming is useless.
1 Notacel 2018-05-22
No
1 Iagoingsoc 2018-05-22
even if that's true, your horrible personalities are still a direct and obvious impediment to some of those things, like social status, behaviour (it's not exactly attractive to complain about how unlucky you are all the time)
1 f9d8hv3sl 2018-05-22
What people like you call good personality isn't about being "nice", it's about being charismatic/funny/mysterious/dangerous etc. That's why so many liars and sociopaths are popular with the opposite sex. Not to mention that if you're 8+ none of that even matters.
The truth is, this kind of bluepill advice is misleading at best and harmful at worst. Sure, if you want to be one of those miserable "stable" (read: betabux) guys who women settle for in their 30's and who frequent r/deadbedrooms - go ahead with the nice guy strategy. But something tells me people who post here want to be genuinely desired for who they are and not as subservient walking ATMs.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
I don't give a shit about being liked, I just want a subservient girl.
1 gogolmogol 2018-05-22
Get a prostitute
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
I don't just want sex...
1 gogolmogol 2018-05-22
A prostitute can do more than just have sex with u
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
But obviously a good enough personality to be friendzoned ... or do you often find yourself being friends with boring, difficult to connect with guys?
1 morganella732 2018-05-22
What does this even mean
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Fuck you, personality doesn't matter at all, women won't even talk to an average guy fr more than a minute before rejecting him.
1 janusz_chytrus 2018-05-22
Yes they will. Look at your father.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
He was a chad when he met my mom.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
Ahhahahah im below average and I have talked to everyone in my class, yes including the girls, maybe its our small student count of 20 but we all know eachother quite well, yes including the nerds, jocks( 3 of my best friends are jocks actually) and those girls you seem to underestimate. Bottom line if you talk to a girl just because you want sex thats using them, try actually talking to them like you would talk to anyone.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Well I'm not in school so that's one differencce...
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
Come on man you must have some place you can socialize, your workplace? Gym? Cyber? Anywhere?
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Any job I could see myself getting would be mostly men, I don't go to a gym and I don'thave the looks to meet girls online.
1 fatchancebud 2018-05-22
lol, I'd always prefer someone act nice than be their usual grumpy self if they are trying to interact with mee
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Putting on your friendly face rather than your grumpy face is one thing, and totally reasonable and just good social skills.
Pretending to be a different person in order to get laid though is unethical and also untenable in the long run.
1 circumventthisfgt 2018-05-22
Dog shit post, had to down vote.
1 Sniveling_Cur 2018-05-22
Do you have any amount of proof to back that up?
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Um... having lived a life, experience of people, being in relationships, knowing other people who've been in relationships, basic common sense, all of those things.
1 Sniveling_Cur 2018-05-22
So nothing but highly subjective anectodal evidence.
Typical normshit "argument"
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
And you've got something better...? Stats and studies to prove... what exactly? That having unlikeable character traits and poor social skills isn't an impediment to finding a partner? Do me a favour.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
But if it's not a guarantee for sex, why are we being told that our ugly looks aren't the problem?
1 counterfitfake 2018-05-22
Looks do matter but are not the whole picture. If you are a 2/10 for looks and you are ok with being in a relationship with a 2/10 than you can be an average person outside of looks. If you are a 2/10 and want to date a 4/10 than you should be above average other than looks.
The problem is when you are a 2/10 for looks and also are an asshole with a warped perspective on women, dating and reality than so few people are going to be an appropriate match for you that you will be unlikely to find anyone interested.
Because there are 2/10 people in happy relationships people say that ugly looks aren't THE problem. But I think everyone agrees that being ugly does limit your options.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
That's seriously how you think it works? You think sexual attraction is a formula?
Looks + Personality = sexual attractiveness?
It's so silly.
1 counterfitfake 2018-05-22
No, I don't think that's how it works. It's a gross oversimplification to get a point across somewhat concisely.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
You clearly believe sexual attraction works like a formula if you think you can "compensate" for a lack of looks.
1 counterfitfake 2018-05-22
Have you never met a person that you were initially not attracted to but once you got to know them your attraction grew?
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
Never.
1 counterfitfake 2018-05-22
Oh. What are the qualities that you have found attractive?
1 mronion82 2018-05-22
Probably begins and ends with 'has a vagina'.
1 Uggocel 2018-05-22
So being indifferent to looks is a bad thing now.
1 mronion82 2018-05-22
I didn't say or imply that, now did I? Just making the observation that he doesn't seem to appreciate any other of the other features of women, he's not a fan.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
I like a nice ass on a non-fat chick who has long hair and at least normal facial features.
1 terevos2 2018-05-22
That is probably part of the problem. That's very shallow of you and women can detect shallowness pretty quickly. That would fall under the category of 'unlikeable personality'.
First learn to see women as people. To engage them as an individual with unique qualities worthy of spending the time to get to know and spend time with.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
Oh yeah, because it's not like shallow guys ever get laid. And there's that laughable "women have detectors" nonsense again.
>First learn to see women as peeeepoooole. To engage with them as an individual with unique qualitiezzzzzz worthy of spending the tiiiime to get to know and spend tiimme wiffff.
What do you mean, "see them as people?" See them as men? Because they're not men.
They don't have unique qualitiezzzz. They're a bunch of ditzy archetypes.
1 terevos2 2018-05-22
Geez man. You're never going to get a girl with that attitude.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
Misogynistic men get laid all the time.
Women only care about looks. When are you going to figure that out?
1 terevos2 2018-05-22
I'm happily married to a woman that is my best friend. She most certainly did not care about looks (at least not primarily).
Talk to a woman some time... for real. You'll find that they don't only care about looks.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
>Talk to a woman some time... for real. You'll find that they don't only care about looks.
.....seriously?
WOMEN LIE.
Do you seriously not realize that?
1 mynameiswrong 2018-05-22
I was having a discussion with a male coworker who said men do not date below them as far as attraction whereas women will. I'm not sure how much I believe him but I think that's why men here don't always understand the way that women feel attraction. It's not the same way some men do.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
😂 dude thats a bit shallow if you think about it, you never thought a girl was okay and slowly started to like her more and more as you got to know her?! Like why would you want to date people if you have never liked someone past their looks?
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
I never started to become sexually attracted to my male friends, either. Must mean I'm shallow.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
And you missed the whole entire point
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
What's the point?
Nobody finds somebody more sexually attractive over time because they "got to know them." That's absurd. Sexual attraction is about looks.
You might find someone more sexually attractive over time because they improve their appearance. That's it.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
So you never started liking someone cause you found put that they also have similar interests as you?! Because a hot girl who plays cod is hotter than just a hot girl in my book
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
Nope. Just like I haven't ever wanted to fuck a guy who shares my interests.
Also, no females share my interests.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
What are your interest? and lol no sexual attraction is different from a crush or liking someone.
1 f0me 2018-05-22
You think it's a formula too. You just think that looks comprise a larger part of the equation.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
No, I think looks = sexual attraction, the end.
1 baldman1 2018-05-22
The key concept is that if you're only nice to a woman because you want to have sex with her, she'll think you're being creepy. Woman are expertly trained to detect that kind of manipulative behavior. If you're genuinely nice to her because you want to be a nice person, and don't have any alterior motive, she'll respond very differently. This is by no means a guarantee that she'll find you attractive, but not being a creep will definitely increase your chances.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
Yeah, because no woman ever goes to bed with a good-looking guy who just wanted to get in her pants, like, ever. One night stands, what are those? Girls who go for douchebag Chads who make no secret of the fact they want to bone them, they totally don't exist.
1 baldman1 2018-05-22
Of course that happens. But those guys are not being deceitful. They make it plain that they're attracted to her. They're not pretending to be her friend to get close to her. Sometimes the attraction is returned, sometimes it's not. In those situations it's definitely helpful to be attractive.
If you're trying to win a woman's affection with your personality, being deceitful is a bad way to start. Be a genuinely nice person, and women will start to respond better to you. Take it from a less than hot guy who has had multiple girlfriends.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
Incels are also up front, and we get told we need to "fix our personality."
If you have to try for the sake of getting something, apparently it's not genuine. So this is impossible.
1 baldman1 2018-05-22
Well, if you're incapable of being a nice person just because you want to be a nice person, then I would tend to agree. People can tell when you're being nice to someone because you want something from them, and it's very off-putting.
And I can guarantee you that that's what's standing in your way.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
No, the only thing that stops anyone from getting laid is looks.
1 baldman1 2018-05-22
You can't do much about genetics, but you can make up for a large part of it by learning to be a nicer person. Even Pat Oswald got married, and that's because he has an attractive personality.
I get why you're frustrated. I was pretty old before I had any luck with women. I've been there. But there is hope. You just have to realize that blaming everything on genetics and societal norms isn't getting you anywhere.
1 f0me 2018-05-22
You could also get filthy rich, or be super funny/charming. I know tons of guys with ugly faces but have hot gfs, but they have other assets.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
No you don't.
1 f0me 2018-05-22
yEs i dO
1 francis_roy 2018-05-22
One of the problems is communication. From the age of a young child, women say "I want to find a nice guy." Guys interpret this as "I seek someone who is meek." What she doesn't tell you, often because she is young, unselfaware and doesn't articulate well is that what she really wants is an attractive man who is also nice, and by "nice," what she means is "personable." She just takes "attractive" for granted--and assumes that others do, too. Guys are the same way, but we tend to know that we like hot women.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Looks aren't the only problem. If anyone tells you looks have no importance in dating, they are lying. But it is also ridiculous to say it is the only important thing.
1 Devil_InMyEar 2018-05-22
Have you tried not being ugly? And also not being socially inept?
Women are people. And like any person, they're completely disgusted by someone who can't pass as a normal fucking person in public.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
No. None of us have. It was never something we were able to try.
1 Mr_StealYoGirl69 2018-05-22
why isn't this downvoted?
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Because it's true.
1 Mr_StealYoGirl69 2018-05-22
Alice, do u have a boyfriend?
1 TruthInBlack 2018-05-22
Because of brigading
1 KolaDesi 2018-05-22
Because it makes sense.
1 Uggocel 2018-05-22
So basically
Being genuinely nice: Not a guarantee of sex, which itself is a strawman.
People here complain that IT is being hypocritical when they say you are probably mean to women or have a bad personlity. They call that out and your shit explanation of it that has basically nothing to do with the point of the post gets upvoted because you successfully missed the point but managed to pander to the 3,000 people lurking here that agree.
Let me break it down for you so that you don't misinterpret what he's trying to say, giving the appearance that you're correct because you sprinkled a strawman that people agree with:
So let's say you mention you can't seem to find a girlfriend. You've try pretty much done every checklist improvement IT throws at you. When asked you tell them this.
You're expecting a reply like 'Oh well maybe it's just bad luck', but you're hit with 'If you tried all of those things it must be your personality.'
https://i.imgur.com/DDNwT3E.png
As seen here.
The argument itself solves nothing. It just throws away the problem to a solution that's easy to digest for people who don't like to think the world is unfair. The problem could be with his personality, sure. But for this instance we can take Occam's razor.
Which is more likely. Every person who is a virgin (Not limited to braincels) has a terrible personality, or that it's possible no one finds him attractive enough to be a sexual partner? That latter has many studies and such to back up the fact that people prefer attractive people in almost every instance of life. People enjoy looking at appealing things, which is a fact. The fact that many people deny this and instead belittle those who haven't met the expectations of getting a girlfriend because they're 'probably boring or probably rude' is ridiculous because it assumes literally every virgin that has ever existed has this problem ONLY pertains to personality, which is proven to be the second thing people pay attention to when finding a partner, basically implying looks are ALWAYS irrelevant and everything we experience is because we're boring or shit people.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
Your insistence that looks are the only thing that matter ignores the fact that there are some very good looking virgins and many ugly men who get laid all the time. To most people this is absolutely obvious. All you have to do is go into the street to see it. Yes, looks are important. But they are not the only important factor. Also, different women find different things attractive. It has also been proven that among women there is a broader range of male features they find attractive than men. In other words, men are more likely to agree on whether a woman is attractive or not, whereas women often surprise other women with the men they find attractive, because one woman's hairy ugly wreck is another woman's sexy beast.
In fact, personality isn't even the biggest obstacle to most people here. It's social skills. If you have good enough social skills you can hide the most boring, obnoxious personality. I realise that some people have Asperger's or other issues that hinder them from having great social skills. But It is still possible to learn good social skills.
Part of good social skills is learning to connect with other people, and accepting that the nature of human interaction means that some people you want to connect with won't find you very appealing - this goes for friends as well as love interests.
Good looks are important in sexual attraction, but so is personality, and social skills and charisma. Without social skills, how on Earth are you going to chat someone up well enough to get them into bed? People don't go round just wordlessly pouncing on anyone they find attractive - except in films. You need the social skills to make it happen. Even if you were so stunningly beautiful that every time you went out in public a girl came up to you to flirt with you, if you were unable to flirt back without coming off as stand-offish and cold (a common trap for shy people unfortunately), or start talking about subjects she finds boring, rather than oozing sex appeal and charisma and smiling and laughing in a confident and self-assured way, if you accidentally give her the "I'm planning how to chop up your body" vibe, if you don't know how to react naturally to her advances and just stand their rigidly without knowing what to do, or alternatively come on way to strong to quickly, then she's going end the conversation quickly and walk off, thinking you are either uninterested or dangerous. I have seen this happen with people I know. It's really sad. But the good thing is that you can learn the social skills to overcome it.
1 Uggocel 2018-05-22
Your insistence on personality is ignoring my entire point that personality ISNT the only factor that plays into getting into a relationship like everyone opposing me implies. I don't remember saying looks were the only factor. In fact I even agreed that personality plays one too, just a secondary role.
Yet another example of presuming my beliefs based on my opinion on one particular thing.
This is my problem, everyone speaks as if it's IMPOSSIBLE for looks to be a factor. They mention that looks do play a role, then they turn around and say PERSONALITY or SOCIAL SKILLS are the problem. When someone complains about not being able to attract women or whatever the go to response is 'you must have a shit personality' with no consideration that maybe looks may play a role. They say:
Do you want me to have charisma while women are covering their faces as I glance in their general direction not even looking directly at them once?
It doesn't happen often but it happens enough for me to hate my life! 😀
I have 2 best-friends that are girls who I still hang out with. My personality and charisma is fine.
1 francis_roy 2018-05-22
This is exactly right. There's an order, a sequence to going from single to getting laid/in a relationship. The precursor to pickup skills is social skills.
I would be curious to know how many incel participants were an only child, or guys who were somewhat isolated during their social formative stages.
1 Gooi-a-weg 2018-05-22
Incels know this shit. They just say that it's all irrelevant of you're a complete ugly fuck. Which is a completely different argument.
1 TruthInBlack 2018-05-22
It's true. Niceness is the bare minimum for femoids. Literally everyone is nice to femoids and the reason that is so hard to unattractive men to grasp is because people are rarely nice to unattractive men.
This is why unattractive men fall so hard for any femoid who shows them even the slightest hint of decent treatment. These same men think that being nice is all you need for a femoid to attract femoids as well.
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
There's actually a lot of truth in that. There was a study quite recently that basically said the same thing. Boys and men in our society aren't encouraged to show emotion or vulnerability, therefore they aren't allowed to develop the same strong social bonds and friendships that women do. They can't show affection towards their male friends as they would be derided as weak or gay if they did, whereas it is normal for women to show basic affection towards their friends, so when a woman shows the slightest kindness to a man, to her it's just totally normal whereas to him it might be the only kindness he's received in years, therefore there is a massive understanding gap. This is a really big problem in society. It probably contributes to a lot of the problems that men suffer from, including higher levels of homelessness, depression and suicide.
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1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Because there's more to a good personality than just being nice when you think it might work to your advantage.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-22
low iq comment. It would need some time to find out if someone is genuin nice or just nice to get laid.
Also, what person isnt nicer to someone hes attracted too? Seems to be a lame argument that the reason why "nice guys" arent getting laid is because they do X, while the rest of the world does X too and gets away with it
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
low iq comment. The only part of my statement you debate is the "when you think it might work to your advantage" part.
Being "nice" is not a selling point. If anything, it's a basic requirement.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-22
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
I daresay the majority of relationships are NOT abusive.
1 shabangcohen 2018-05-22
It takes very little time to spot fake niceness. Unless the guy's really good at acting AND is hot and the girl is stupid, and yeah that happens all the time as well.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Well great, I get rejected as soon as I approach girls normally, which would be before doing or saying anything even vaguely nice so they aren't spotting fake niceness...
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
True, other very important personality traits include hunter eyes, strong jaws, good height and generally pleasant facial aesthetics.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Stephen Hawking was married... twice.
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
He lived in a very different time in the UK where online dating and sexual freedom hadn't yet exacerbated female hypergamy as much as today.
It's unfair to cite a world renown personality as an example of dating success. What's the lesson here? If im not capable of getting an equivalent social status as Stephen Hawking, I am not worthy of romantic intimacy or sex?
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
His second marriage was in 1995... I daresay there was plenty of sexual freedom for women then. Maybe not for gays, but certainly for women.
The lesson is that looks are only part of the equation. Even if you are a 0 on looks (Nothing against the brilliant Dr. Hawking, but in 1995 he was probably as close to a 0 on looks as one might get). If you think you're lacking in the looks department, you can still be appealing. That is the lesson. Ok, sure, none of us are going to have the world-renowned intellect of Dr. Hawking, but I'm going to venture a guess that you're not as twisted and crippled as he was either...
1 bopoll 2018-05-22
If he was born 20 years ago, even without als, he would have never even lost his virginity
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
That's a hypothetical that would be impossible to prove one way or another, since he was born when he was born.
1 bopoll 2018-05-22
Okay?
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
It's more productive than speculating on something about which you have no idea.
1 bopoll 2018-05-22
Wait so you bringing up irrelevant facts about Stephen hawking's married life is more productive than me describing how he'd never be able to do the same if he was born 30 years ago?
Why? You're action provides 0 value to the discussion while mine gives room for more discussion and therefore more than 0 value.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Irrelevant? Dude had 0 looks, and still got married... twice.
You only say it provides no value to the discussion because it goes against the incel groupthink that one needs a decent appearance to get sex and affection. If you don't like my example, google "ugly couples" and you'll get a thousand examples of unsightly guys that managed to get a girlfriend. And they aren't all Stephen Hawking, that's for sure.
1 bopoll 2018-05-22
in a time without hypergamy therefore, irrelevant. You can't prove that he'd be able to do that right now, can you?
I say it provides no value because his marriages did not take place in the same social situation. That's like me pointing to arranged marriages in medieval Europe and saying things like "see anyone can get married regardless of looks or personality!!".
It's irrelevant.
Yeah. Obviously, nobody denies that ugly people get into relationships, do you know what a trend is?
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Is that the rate of success of ugly people getting dates? I would VERY much like to see your source data on this!
According to this: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/on-late-in-life-virginity-loss/284412/ over 95% of men and women have had sex by the age of 29, and over 99.7% by 44
So, I'm curious what your source is for that 1-in-6-million statistic!
1 bopoll 2018-05-22
I said 1 out of 6 million ugly men, not 1 out of 6 million men.
.3% (the men who don't have sex by 44 according to your study) × 3.5 billion men on earth, leaves a little over 10 million men on earth who haven't had sex by then.
So you're right I was wrong about the 1 in 6 million uglies having a girlfriend, it's more like 1 in 10 million.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Of course, one cannot assume that the 0.3% are celibate simply out of looks. I mean, the number of priests, monks and nuns can account for at least a portion of that.
What percentage of the population do you think is really ugly? 5%? 1%? Even if you go with 1%, that means that 70% of ugly folks will eventually have luck finding a partner.
1 chinanumbaone3 2018-05-22
you need to put in male-model-face-coins and sex falls out
1 sereese1 2018-05-22
If you're nice to only one woman just to get laid, you're by definition not nice. If you blame only others without ever considering your shortcomings like most people on this sub, you're not nice, or deserving or entitled. You never are entitled, even if you act like it
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-22
Ah, the good old no true niceguy fallacy. If you are nice you get laid, if youre not getting laid then you must be not nice.
also, how do women c find out if someone is genuin nice or just faking it? by looking at his jaw?
1 LinksLight 2018-05-22
the anti-friendzone arguments and the anti incel arguments contradict eachother
it's like every level they get a new "pill"
isolated incel who never talked to a woman before - "just be nice to women bro"
nice guy in friendzone - "being nice is no guarantee, just move on and find someone who wants you"
nice guy finally in beta relationship - "she prefers you to the previous guys because you're more secure and solid bro, you're a reliable old car and they were wild sports cars bro, just accept it"
accepted it and got divorced anyway, now single in middle age - "hey old dude just get on tinder, fix your hair and shirt old dude, not all women are like your ex"
1 nec3dg 2018-05-22
Being nice to women is actually having good looks. If an incel is nice to a female is creepy if a 8+ is nice to a female then is... a nice person.
1 rosadiazsgirlfriend 2018-05-22
Naw some women will be superficial, but a lot are capable of picking up on subtle cues that tell if a person is trustworthy or not. Honestly I'm more wary with conventionally good looking men than I am with the average or unconventional looking guys, because so many of the former think they're so slick with their game, and just expect to be able to move on to the next girl. Those kind of dudes won't even take the time to remember your name the next day. Some women actually want to connect on a human level
1 Duracel_Battery 2018-05-22
Because being a doormat =/= good personality
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
https://www.reddit.com/r/MaleForeverAlone/comments/7s0uju/the_man_who_learned_not_to_be_the_pushover_that/
1 Duracel_Battery 2018-05-22
Not sure what your point is.
1 EverythingIsSoSincur 2018-05-22
The "don't be a doormat, women don't like that" justification is a joke. Women are horrible judges of character, as shown time and again.
1 gingersnap97 2018-05-22
Because women want a partner, not someone to fuck them and leave? I consider my boyfriend my best friend. Would you be friends with someone just because they're nice? You probably would prefer to hang out with someone who has a similar sense of humor, has similar/interesting hobbies and interests. I've never had a one night stand, but I know I'd be unable to have sex with anyone I'm not comfortable with. And I feel like a lot of people, especially women, feel the same way.
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
You seriously think that all supposed 'nice guys' don't have a good sense of humor, or interesting hobbies and interests? Remember, the whole 'nice' meme was started by normies to strawman incels into shame. It's called the friendzone, not the nicezone. In other words, you're good enough to be a friend but nothing more.
1 gingersnap97 2018-05-22
What I'm saying is that some people click, others don't. I'm not trying to shame you at all. If you haven't been in a relationship with someone, you just haven't found that person you "click" with yet. I have high standards because I'm literally allowing someone into my body, and if something goes wrong I could potentially have to deal with it by myself if he runs off. I can't speak for all women obviously, because we are all people with different opinions, but I don't think I'm out of the norm. My boyfriend looks nothing like the guys in the OP, though.
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
Exactly, and to 'click' you require physical attractiveness. This is the main differentiator between someone being a friend (or friendzoned in this case) and being a boyfriend. In the same way that most best friends of the same sex would end up together if they were physically attracted to each other.
And i wasn't suggesting you were shaming incels (sorry if it came across that way), i am merely saying that the whole 'niceness' thing was concocted as a strawman by certain commentators in order to shame incels. I was talking in general, not about you.
1 gingersnap97 2018-05-22
I appreciate you being so respectful. I get your point. I know it can be very frustrating to be turned away because you're not attractive to the other person. I asked a guy I had a crush on to prom in high school, and he rejected me, and it was very rough. So I can't imagine how disheartening it is to go through that over and over again. But from my angle, it's frustrating when incels act like women are evil for not having sex with/dating them. My boyfriend looks nothing like "Chad", but I love him and we have a great relationship. Some women, especially those in college, are pretty catty. But it seems like frat guys are the same. I'm a straight woman, though, so I don't truly know what it's like to date/try to date a woman. I don't know if you're an incel or just an observer, or what your past is.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Women are evil because by rejecting us they are condemning us to a life of suffering.
1 gingersnap97 2018-05-22
So women should date men they aren't attracted to or interested in?
1 pm-me-ur-taxes 2018-05-22
Are you fucking retarded
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
I have a long-term gf of 6 years but I have a lot of sympathy and understanding of the incel plight as I was a very late starter and an incel for over 10 years.
I can't speak for all incels but I don't think most literally think women are evil, but they are completely, and understandably, frustrated with how badly the cards are stacked against the below average male today. And obviously, our one consistent, dominating drive, much like needing to eat and drink and sleep, is to have sex and to procreate (have relationships), so when you are denied that outlet for your primal urges then of course you're going to be angry and frustrated. Yes, some take it too far and allow their emotions to cloud what they say but for the most part I think incels hate the 'system' rather than the individuals.
And then to rub it in they are the only section of society that the, usually, 'tolerant' left happily and openly vilify and ask them to accept all responsibility for their failures, while openly supporting and accepting the nuanced factors that afflict and determine the makeup of every other group in society. Hell, I've seen more support for pedos than I have for incels in the media.
I think a lot of this derives from the fact that men and women, on the whole, are in different situations, and thus women are unable to truly understand where incels are coming from. There is a reason, after all, that the vast majority of incels are male, and it's because women, in general, have a much easier time of it when it comes to the sexual marketplace. In the same way that I wouldn't pretend to know what it's like growing up in a gang-infested, drug-riddled community and the impact that would have on my outlook on life, I don't think that most women can ever really know what it's like to grow up as a below-average male in the modern world. That might sound a little hyperbolic but hopefully you get the idea.
1 zachariah22791 2018-05-22
I'm not going to dispute your life experience, but I do want to dispute this point that you made:
I can't argue about how many incels are male, but your explanation of why is just your speculation. You presented it as fact and I don't think that's appropriate.
Here's another explanation (and yours and mine are not mutually exclusive, they may work together to contribute to the phenomenon of most incels being male):
Women are socially conditioned from a young age to internalize our problems, so when things don't go well for us, we tend to blame ourselves. Incels blame women for their issues with women. Women who struggle with rejection from males are more likely to blame themselves than the males who reject them.
E.g., the female mindset probably tends to be: "I must be too ugly or fat for him to be interested in me. I guess I just suck." whereas the male mindset is: "She thinks I'm too ugly for her? She didn't even give me a chance. She needs to be less shallow."
1 sparrowfiend 2018-05-22
Thank you for wading in here. I'm not an incel or a guy, but I think I can shed some light on things a bit.
When you say that "some people click", what do you mean by that? What I think you mean, is that your animal brain has decided that you are attracted to someone, usually due to totally superficial cues. It is not based on any kind of moral or rational evaluation of someone. Someone can be a terrible person, but if your amygdala decides that they're hot, then you'll find all sorts of excuses to justify it.
I'm very forgiving of this, because I remember being like that. I think most people are shallow before they develop enough self knowledge to contextualize and process their more primitive and shallow impulses. But you should really try to understand yourself. This is the same phenomenon that would induce you to be racist toward someone or trust someone less because they have skin blemishes. Accept that you are human, but try to still be a better person when you can.
But anyway, it can be really hurtful when you give this long and obviously self deluded confabulated explanation about why you like Chad. It is hurtful because people read this as you lying to them, even if you don't think you're being dishonest.
Look, a gender-reversed analogue to this situation would be if your boyfriend left you for another girl who was much less intelligent and attractive, but she dressed like a tramp and did whatever your boyfriend said. And when confronted, your boyfriend kept coming up with these ludicrous justifications like "oh, uh she's so smart, I mean, not book smart, and not smart-smart, but um, she just seems really smart to me". Wouldn't that make it hurt even more? He should just admit that he has a shallow and pointless attraction and own it.
1 pm-me-ur-taxes 2018-05-22
Starts post with "I'm not an incel or a guy"
Rants about being an incel
Fucking be concise you cucktard
1 pm-me-ur-taxes 2018-05-22
Just read the comment
I couldn't get past the first few sentences last time, so I apologize for my hasty reply.
Now listen here.
some people have the capacity to decide that superficial qualities are less important than intrinsic qualities.
Lotta people do.
You can't assume everyone is the same
Cuz it seems like you are, and that's where it could be argued that you're making an error.
You're still kind of a cucktard who needs to get overthemselves imo but who the fuck gives a shit honestly. I'm sure you dont broadcast your beliefs in public, but if you do, I'm sure they're at complimentary establishments and then who gives a shit.
So you do you, but hopefully people whose (who's? I look forward to being condescendingly corrected) opinions are similar to mine out-vote you and your likeminded cohorts when we can, because rn the countries in kind of a bad way and a turn around might be a good idea.
Beyond that, if you decide to go to a neutral bar and talk about how you feel respectfully, maybe there'd be a good conversation. Or a church if you want but whatever. Cucktard.
1 sparrowfiend 2018-05-22
Are you drunk? Cucktard, really? I'm not even threatened by you, kiddo.
But actually I'm trans. I've been on both sides.
I was an angry proto-incel when I was like 17. And I wasn't an incel even then, because I was still able to find ways to get laid.
1 pm-me-ur-taxes 2018-05-22
What the fuck is a proto incel
Who the fuck says kiddo
Womp womp
1 gingersnap97 2018-05-22
You tried really hard to interpret what I meant by "some people click", but you're wrong. I'm automatically comfortable around some people, and others I'm not. For example, I'd be very uncomfortable around an arrogant douche canoe like you. That's because I think arrogance is a terrible personality trait, as its often used because the person feels superior to others. But you claimed that I don't have/follow a moral compass, so that MUST be wrong.
I'll make it simple for you. I know who I do and don't like. And Its not just because of their physical appearance.
1 sparrowfiend 2018-05-22
I think you have a really healthy attitude. I don't have these feelings, but I can sympathize with the misdirected rage of incels, and I certainly also was not talking about you.
I wish there were more like you. The truth is though, some women really are attracted to immoral people.
1 cat--facts 2018-05-22
Did you know? Cats that live together sometimes rub each others heads to show that they have no intention of fighting. Young cats do this more often, especially when they are excited.
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1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
No, but they almost certainly lack the social skills to get these across to people and use them to connect with others.
It's not a lost cause, you can learn social skills.
1 Luna4x0 2018-05-22
Being a good man, and being nice to get sex are not the same thing. It's not about niceness, it's about being a decent human being.
1 _THE_END_IS_NIGH_ 2018-05-22
Plenty of indecent human beings get sex. Bullies are the most group successful sexually, actual study done.
1 Luna4x0 2018-05-22
They don't get sex because they're indecent, but in spite of it. Also, rape/domestic abuse is not "sexual success," it's assault and a crime in most countries. Because those are probably the bullies you mean without realizing it. Or maybe you consider bullies people with self-confidence and assertive personalities. One will never know...
1 _THE_END_IS_NIGH_ 2018-05-22
Didn't even read the studies. Don't know how to use Google?
https://i.redd.it/q8r7y1fgnvx01.png
https://i.redd.it/sgmsf8sjktp01.jpg
Let's hear your excuse.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Do you believe ALL women want to be treated badly and abused for the sake of being treated badly and abused?
1 _THE_END_IS_NIGH_ 2018-05-22
for the sake of the guy.
Attractive guys get away with this kind of shit.
You lot need to round up all the abusive boyfriends and tell them to be respectful to women.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Exactly. They are there in spite of the abuse, not because of it. You're agreeing with /u/Luna4x0 then?
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
So you're telling us we are even more fucked.... Because eve if we get a girlfriend abusing her would make her less likely to stick around...
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
What do you mean by that?
Don't be abusive, and you don't have to worry about having to make someone stick around IN SPITE of that behavior.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
I mean there isn't anything we can do to make a woman less likely to leave...
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
That's pretty much the opposite of true. If a woman likes you, and you put in an effort to make her life richer and better and more enjoyable, she'll be less likely to leave than if you simply count down the days until she dumps you.
If you get a date, go into the experience with joy and excitement! Dating someone is supposed to be FUN. Go out, do fun things together! Talk and get to know each other! Make friends with HER friends, and introduce her to yours! Enjoy the experience, and use some empathy to imagine what you can do to make sure SHE enjoys the experience too.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
The odds of her leaving are still to high especiall after marriage where she can ruin your life and rob you LEGALLY.
And thanks a lot for reminding me about what I'm missing out on.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
The idea is to marry someone who shares a mutual love with you, and you continually maintain your relationship so neither one of you wants to leave. A lot of people manage this.
If you feel you're missing out, then what are you going to do about it?
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Except she has the threat of leaving you at all times and can do whatever the fuck she wants.
Nice try trying to provoke me you fucking peice of shit, but if you want to know, then it's the same I've been doing for years, being treated like shit because I can't get a woman.
1 CommonMisspellingBot 2018-05-22
Hey, ceDrowRanger, just a quick heads-up:
peice is actually spelled piece. You can remember it by i before e.
Have a nice day!
The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
You could always leave her too, you know. There are a lot of no-fault divorce states these days. In fact, if she ends up having a better career than you, you could even end up getting alimony for awhile!
Who was it that said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"?
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
I'd rather have her be with me, and alimony would just be a motivator to make sure I never make enough money to attract a woman.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Why don't you think women would feel this way about marriage too? Divorce isn't a fun ride for anyone (except maybe the lawyers). I know firsthand.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Because a woman has things to gain and she would be less crippled by the divorce and still be able to get on her feet afterwards and get in a relationship. it would be a hell of a lot easier for her than the guy who loses his job, is robbed by his wife, is robbed by the government for his wife, has no chance of getting with a woman again and has had been slandered by being called an abuser?
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Huh... I went through a divorce. I didn't lose my job, get robbed by my wife, get robbed by the government, and I've been with several women since my divorce.
My sister got divorced, she didn't ask for anything other than to NOT be saddled with her ex's huge debt he rang up. She doesn't get child support or alimony or anything.
Seriously, how skewed is your view of women here? Jeez, they're just people, dude. They just have different parts between their legs but they're still people, like you.
1 ceDrowRanger 2018-05-22
Sounds like a rare case to me.
Yes, women are people, murderers are people do but that isn't a reason to be lenient with them, besides of the "women" interested in me 3 out of 4 actually had the same parts between their legs as me which I think says a lot about the current state of the dating market.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
What's your sample size on which you're basing your conclusion that my experience is rare? Given that nearly half of marriages end in divorce, and it doesn't seem like there are terribly many destitute people out there, OR people getting jailed based on trumped-up abuse charges, I'm inclined to think that my experience is NOT the aberration.
Murderers don't make up 50% of the population. And given the fact that you hate the entire demographic you're trying to date, I'm not sure you're having a typical experience with the "current state of the dating market."
1 dullsite 2018-05-22
WRONG
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913012245
1 Maikowski2 2018-05-22
So if it is not personality, not looks either (since many couples are ugly).. then it must be certain actions then, maybe? It doesn't have to be a bully. But try to think harder and find the answer. I do not know the truth, but I have my guesses.
1 shabangcohen 2018-05-22
If incels understood this one concept they literally wouldn't exist. And yes, people can tell the difference.
1 BF8211 2018-05-22
This phrase can have 100,000 different meanings, and it changes depending on the level of attractiveness of the man.
1 mazafakaaaa 2018-05-22
highest IQ post in whole thread
1 kelsier_89 2018-05-22
It's more simple, you should be nice to everyone. Girls, boys, pretty and ugly. It doesn't have anything to do with relationships or sex. If you are only nice to the girl tou wanna fuck you are not a nice person.
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
Ok, so an incel is nice to everyone, but falls for a girl that they are being nice to. He'll still get shit on by normies using exactly the same argument. Or are we supposed to assume that every single incel is only ever nice to girls they want to sleep with and horrible to everyone else?
1 kelsier_89 2018-05-22
Why would you get shit on for being nice? You get shit on for asuming that girls are going to have sex with you only because you are nice to them. It is like expecting a raise for arriving at work always at the correct hour, it's something that you are expected to do, and not only when the meeting is work-related. (Sorry for my english I expect you can understand what i'm saying)
1 Theobaldy 2018-05-22
Strawman.
1 Ultramegasaurus 2018-05-22
Meanwhile women freely and openly bitch about guys who fucked them but don't commit afterwards. It's almost like they think men are machines were you put in sex and a relationship falls out 🤔
1 rosadiazsgirlfriend 2018-05-22
That is actually a really weird and troublesome tendency with a lot of girls I know.. (I'm 33f)
My best friend has a 12 y/o with a a girl he was dating I'm high school who intentionally got pregnant despite knowing he didn't want a kid, and used the child as leverage against him ever since. She used to be a friend of mine. I broke ties with her because of what she did to my bud.
I can't know how prevelant this or any human tendency is, but I've seen it in other girls enough to be wary of it in myself.
That's actually a pretty succinct juxtaposition of metaphors there, nice work
1 shockinghillaryquote 2018-05-22
Good.....question.
I'm sure Normies have an answer. Normies?
1 Maikowski2 2018-05-22
It is not personality per se, since people use this word poorly (me including) but your mindset. It is mental stuff that is keeping you from attracting women. You can not really change your personality, but you can mold it a bit and achieve healthy habits, attitude and finally - proper mindset, which is not pitying yourself, not complaining about stuff you can not change because it is waste of energy, trying to find happiness elsewhere before you try to find happiness in other people etc.
Personality is quite ambiguous word and I doubt people (especially incels) use it properly when discussing relationships.
1 shabangcohen 2018-05-22
Women want guys who are nice to everyone, not guys who focus their niceness on them in hopes of sex.
1 SpencersCJ 2018-05-22
Because being repulsive is a massive turn off and being fake nice for pussy points is visible miles away
1 LateAdopter 2018-05-22
Because people don’t like being around self-pitying pieces of shit
1 GalsDemSugar 2018-05-22
Be a nice person because it's the good thing to do. Don't be nice to expect anything back from someone, do it because you want to. Don't have selective kindess where you're only nice to people you want to fuck, because people will see you're only putting on a fake personality and therefore won't want to interact with you.
1 xOwlyx 2018-05-22
You arnt entitled to shit. No one is entitled to anything, not even life, be grateful you don't have cancer and shut the fuck up.
1 Diesel_Fixer 2018-05-22
Because that's what the problem is.
1 Bruhvaccume 2018-05-22
Because acting like a fuckwit will make sure people won't like you in general.
Someone has to like you before they'll want to sleep with you.
p.s.
No, there is no guarantee that someone who likes you will sleep with you. Furthermore, if you're just chasing after someone for sex, you're not actually "nice" you're being an asshole.
1 SkinnyPoorAndIncel 2018-05-22
Niceguys TM aren't incels tho. Most of them are premangina Numales.
1 alyannemei 2018-05-22
Precisely because you have to ask a question as retarded as this one.
1 f0me 2018-05-22
Nah, it's really because you are butt ugly to look at. But telling you it's your personality gives you hope that you can change yourself. And what is life without hope?
1 NeedinStitches 2018-05-22
Thanks for the hypocrisy mate that's all I needed and expected from an incel.
1 bcat124 2018-05-22
Did you just say that I shouldn't be an asshole to get laid on a thread that mocks people who think not being an asshole will get you laid?
Thks for assuming that Im an asshole who doesn't know how to get dressed tho, and completely ignoring the link that shows how women have absurdly high standards for male attractiveness.
1 YiMainOnly 2018-05-22
Meanwhile gang members; murderers; seriel killers etc. Get laid all the time. Or just giant assholes overall
Fucking a mass murderers in many cases got engaged after getting sent to jail by females who saw them on TV and fell in love.
1 billiam632 2018-05-22
Why would I want to shut you up? Like in your twisted world I'm so devious that I'm thinking "oh I hate this guy, let me lie to him and give him some hope that he can get laid by lying to him about something that I know is impossible to achieve!"
You messaged less than 54 women? Well idk how you expected anything from that.
I'm saying instead of expecting the world to change, you should change. That doesn't mean have no sex drive you idiot. That means use your sex drive to be a better person. The kind of person women want to have sex with. It's honestly not that difficult if you give enough of a shit to make the change instead of spending your time on a sub filled with other frustrated men who also can't get laid. Like if it's so important to you then I would expect you'd spend more time in bars or clubs trying to approach women. Or you'd be on tinder bumble and okcupid and messaging every single women you come across. I figured you'd read some books on how to attract women or go on r/seduction to get some advice.
Instead you do nothing but message 20 women and complain that they didn't respond when they saw your shitty tinder pictures that you took in your dirty bathroom mirror.
You can't change the world. Only you can change. Or you can just keep bitching about it. Totally up to you.
1 counterfitfake 2018-05-22
This whole back and fourth was amazing. Can't tell if Iamverysmart or trolling.
1 ThisIsNoCave 2018-05-22
Huh... I went through a divorce. I didn't lose my job, get robbed by my wife, get robbed by the government, and I've been with several women since my divorce.
My sister got divorced, she didn't ask for anything other than to NOT be saddled with her ex's huge debt he rang up. She doesn't get child support or alimony or anything.
Seriously, how skewed is your view of women here? Jeez, they're just people, dude. They just have different parts between their legs but they're still people, like you.
1 Throughanightmare 2018-05-22
You need to learn how to press the giant and very obvious button, you fucking troglodyte.
1 shabangcohen 2018-05-22
Literally 100% of women will agree that physical attraction is necessary....
1 alicejdnsk 2018-05-22
And you've got something better...? Stats and studies to prove... what exactly? That having unlikeable character traits and poor social skills isn't an impediment to finding a partner? Do me a favour.
1 RogueSexToy 2018-05-22
What are your interest? and lol no sexual attraction is different from a crush or liking someone.