You mean the guys that go "you fucking piece of shit bitch i cant believe you rejected me im such a nice guy?" How often does that actually happen? Because the screenshots on /r/niceguys lead me to believe theyre mainly making fun of poor beta guys who misinterpreted their crushes interest levels. Obviously socially awkward losers but they'll learn given time. It seems like the definition of a "nice guy" is quite distorted.
Honestly I don't condone the behaviour, but the whole thing is so pathetic. Is getting a mean text from a guy in an emotionally compromised state after months of trying really that horrible . What they do is not wise or right but its such a minor offence. The fact that people even give a shit shows how much low SMV guys are hated. Also I like that some of this woman were "friends" with the guys for years and many times the guy saved them from real shit. Yet the second he sends her a mean text he is suddenly the devil and should be publicly shamed. Fucking harpies.
yes "nice guys" are distinct from blackpill. Nice guys usually move from beta to bluepill to redpill over time, whereas we have literally just given up.
This image takes the negative personality stereotype of the "nice guy" and portrays them as physically unattractive, which is emblematic of the "beautiful is good" effect embedded in our culture. In turn, this makes people quicker to label ugly men as "nice guys".
The implication here is that being a "nice guy" means that you're physically unattractive, which is consistent with what we're saying: women only mock "nice guys" if they're unattractive to begin with.
Being a "nice guy" is not dependent on looks, although the bulk of them do tend to being overweight, living in basements, wearing fedoras, polishing katanas and referring to women as "Ma'am" or "Milady" a lot.
although the bulk of them do tend to being overweight, living in basements, wearing fedoras, polishing katanas and referring to women as "Ma'am" or "Milady" a lot.
No, that's not actually true. It's just what Reddit wants you to think, and you believe it because of the Halo effect. You're just proving our point.
You don't believe there are people out there that get irrationally angry because someone smiled at them politely once, then turned down their advances?
The numale cuckolds "listen" to what women say and run with it.
The women say they want nice guys, but then they choose men solely based on appearance. Now, women have a special status in our society in pretty much every facet possible. We all know this. Everyone knows this. Women especially know this which is why they damsel and pretend "the incels" hiding in the shadows and under the bed are out to get them.
If women admitted they only care about appearance, they would lose their special position in society and would be seen as they are: catty, deceitful (down to their makeup), rapidly depreciating sluts.
Instead, they made this massive caricature of "nice" in order to not admit they don't actually have sexual morality (because the entirety of feminism is implied to based on sexual morality but is actually about power), because otherwise they lose their privledges.
Thankfully, with the internet, women's lies coincide with "empowerment" to show us they are lying via their actions, and mass information which shows their lies.
Thus, "nice" is bad because otherwise who is she? Don't you see?
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
like, i didnt even say that men dont go arround dating a girl only cause shes cute. But women dont either. The difference is that the minium looks Treshhold for a women to be passable is very very low (she doesnt even have to be not fat), and if you pass the looks treshhold then yes being cute can def. get you laid(not that women even need to be cute)
And yes, i heard of guys dating girls just because theyre cute. its very common.a sweet feminine personality makes a women attraktive. it doesnt however work the other way arround.
But “nice guy” - as it’s used here, in quotation marks - means one of those assholes who goes on and on constantly about themselves and what nice guys they are, only to turn around and grab your thigh or try to stick their hand up your skirt or grab your boobs when you least expect it and definitely didn’t consent to it - so basically the opposite of a nice guy.
means one of those assholes who goes on and on constantly about themselves and what nice guys they are, only to turn around and grab your thigh or try to stick their hand up your skirt or grab your boobs when you least expect it and definitely didn’t consent to it - so basically the opposite of a nice guy.
Those assholes who go on about how amazing they are in your presence before being compelled to feel you up because you're just that amazing and men are just that creepy, right?
Are you talking about the men you meet on your shift and the strip club?
Nah, it's ugly eunuchs who have to know their place. Be real, we're all sick of your feminine bullshit. Not everyone was born yesterday.
Why don't you just say "rapist" instead of "nice guy", if what you mean is rapist?
The problem is women also say things like "you're a nice guy, but.." and "you're such a nice guy I'm sure there's someone out there for you" to unsuccessful men. So when men hear "nice guy", we think the types of ugly/nerdy/shy men women call "nice guys" while letting them down gently, the types of men women don't want to date.
If you mean a completely different type of guy (some entitled player who goes on about how he's a decent guy and then assaults girls), why don't you use a less ambiguous term?
When I refer to a jerk that is referenced in the PWW, I just generally call them creeps. Rapist is a strong term, considering grabbing a titty is sexual assault, but not rape. I was merely trying to explain why this PWW was referring to creeps and not men like you guys.
Sorry for the delay in response. I’ve been downvoted so much that I get locked out from commenting for several minutes, so I get frustrated and give up for a while.
Jerk and assaulter are good words for guys like that. I call the guy that did it to me my assaulter.
I understand that guys like you are called creepy. I just wish you wouldn’t paint all women with the same brush.
I’m not the type of person to dismiss people based on their looks and I don’t deserve to be hated for it. I don’t even know why I come here, tbh. I guess I hope to show some of the men here a different perspective.
You specifically, maybe not. Our conversation leads me to believe that maybe not. But I have received a lot of vitriol in this thread when I’m just trying to clear up what seems to be a misunderstanding about the meaning of the terms in the PWW. Maybe that means I am painting everyone here with the same brush, and for that I apologize.
Also, way to completely project your insecurities on to me while also entirely ignoring what I said.
I know I’m in the he-man woman hater’s club here and all, but you should understand what it means to scream so loud that you can’t hear your own voice.
only to turn around and grab your thigh or try to stick their hand up your skirt or grab your boobs when you least expect it and definitely didn’t consent to it
That's only bad when the man doing it isn't hot. This is independent of whether he "goes on and on constantly about himself and what a nice guy he is." A hot guy who does both of those things would turn you on, and receive your retroactive consent. An ugly guy who does the same would creep you out. The independent variable here is what he looks like.
Attractiveness is subjective. I’ve seen dudes who look like they just walked off the pages of a magazine turn into completely ugly motherfuckers because of the way they act and/or treat women.
And I’ve met guys that probably don’t even register on the average person’s 10 scale become 10,000x more attractive because they don’t act like douchebags.
Obviously I don’t speak for all women, but I am not, nor have I ever been, someone who thinks looks mean everything. Looks fade, my dude, and quickly at that, man or woman.
I never said no one notices people’s looks, I said they don’t mean everything.
Let’s say you and I meet in a bar. Obviously we don’t know what each other look like; but to each other, neither of us are attractive at first glance. We wouldn’t give each other a second glance if asked. But later we just do happen to be next to each other while ordering drinks and a commercial comes on for something we both think is stupid, and one of us comments about it, so the other replies and a conversation is struck up. And later on, as we realize we have more and more things in common, we are suddenly more attracted to each other.
I would rather have a relationship based on that, on something that’s real, than just be with some random asshole just because he’s hot according to some arbitrary scale somebody made up.
Most likely what happens. We both go into bar. I'm attractive and get girls easily. So I approach you. Since I'm attractive you think everything I say and do is funny. We talk and then go to my home and fuck.
A different scenario. I'm super ugly. We both walk into bar. Im ugly so I'm used to not getting attention. So I sit alone. You, somehow, sit next to me. Some commercial comes on that I find stupid. Me being the autist I am try to strike up a conversation with you. You notice my face and are instantly repulsed by me. You think I'm a creep who just hits on random girls at bars.
I have pretty gnarly social anxiety so if I was at a bar I’d most likely be off by myself or at least where there were less people, too. As I said in an earlier comment, I’ve never been a “looks are everything” person. I’m definitely not a supermodel by any [super loose] definition of the word myself. And I’d only think you were a creep if you said something creepy.
I would rather have a relationship based on that, on something that’s real, than just be with some random asshole just because he’s hot according to some arbitrary scale somebody made up.
No one cares what you would rather have, we are trying to characterize what generally happens between the sexes. And you honestly don't have the sophistication in thought to realize that hot guys are not defined by an arbitrary scale but by how physically attractive they are to a given woman and women at large.
No, I won't reread what I wrote because you're too lazy or strictly incapable of responding. And yes, I managed to piece that together - your extreme arrogance gave it away.
I'm citing well known facts that are often omitted when women try to claim that it all boils down to personality. Women don't want those facts to be considered because it ruins the attempt at deceit.
Attractiveness is subjective. I’ve seen dudes who look like they just walked off the pages of a magazine turn into completely ugly motherfuckers because of the way they act and/or treat women.
We've all seen those Tinder experiments where Chad can say literally anything and still get females' personal info. If you're a hot guy, you can't offend a woman no matter how hard you try.
That’s because women are all different. Some women like assholes. Some women like needy guys. Some women like fat guys. Yes most girls are attracted to certain “hot” guys but that doesn’t mean all of them are going to sleep with said guys. Also tinder is for hookups. No girl is going to care about personality for a hookup. They care about personality for a relationship.
The person you're describing barely even exists, and when he does women love him. The asshole with a heart of gold is a massively popular trope. On the other hand any man who dares to wonder out loud why women often date jerks or complains at all about their lack of dating success is immediately shouted down as a nice guy. Guaranteed near 100% of those guys can barely even talk to a girl let alone randomly grope her.
You claim that women choose mates solely on appearance is wrong. How do rich men get banged?
If anything manipulation is applied reality... Pushup bras = applied physics. Make the breast look larger with structural support.
Your idea of feminism is off. For most of history women, like many other groups were legally and socially marginalized. It is true that in today's climate that women are equal and surpassing male's in many criteria, but that doesn't diminish the history of marginalization.
First off I don't agree with your assertion that their sexuality is not moral (depends on how you to choose to define those things I suppose) based on anadotical and empirical evidence. I'm constly observing couples where I am wondering how she ended up with him and how he end up with her. Plus there is evidence to support that males and females end up with people that are generally within their same ascetic bracket (give or take a point). So by sexual morality I assume that you perceive women's promiscuity as "immoral." However, the same criteria can be said of men. Attractive men or female want to bang as many people as they can. Men with money or looks target women the most attractive woman they can and try to bang as much as possible. If this wasn't so, the concept of a chad wouldn't be in existence. As for the argument women want bad guys, I see this fault in the same reasoning as stated before. No women don't want bad guys, they want the most attractive mate possible; which holds true for men as well.
The women say they want nice guys, but then they choose men solely based on appearance.
But they don’t even say they want nice guys anymore. I think that’s what u/dumb_intj was marveling at. Although there’s something to be said for women becoming a little bit more honest. But that might be because their depravity is increasing to such a degree that they can’t hide all of it anymore.
Because "nice" is all ugly and poor guys have to offer.
It's of the utmost imperative that men stop being nice to women. As you can see, they feel entitled to your niceness. They think you being nice is "default." Show them their entitlement.
I appreciate your writing: well-crafted and formed. I stopped showing courtesy and respect to winners, manipulators, and whores a long time ago. Elderly people and the disabled - throwaways like us - I treat like royalty whenever possible.
Definition of nice:
adj
1. pleasing; agreeable; delightful
2. amiably pleasant; kind
[other definitions omitted as they don't pertain to personality]
YOU SHOULD NEVER BE NICE BY DEFAULT
Being nice means that you're a wuss. That's it.
Incidentally, masculinity is negatively correlated with agreeableness (along with being negatively correlated with neuroticism, which is an independent factor but explains why all the really "nice" girls I know never have their shit together).
Your job, as a man, is to treat others with respect, and demand respect for yourself.
How does that work?
If the acquaintance is brief, and the slight given is inconsequential, ignore both the insult and the person and move on. This includes all interactions with women that have spurned you but the result of which doesn't threaten your standing at your job, with your family or your community (see below for those). If a guy bumps into you while you're walking down the sidewalk, move on.
If the offense given is great, then you need to retaliate. By retaliate, I mean exercise your powers within the constraints of the system (whether that system is the law for society at large, your family, or your job). You can't do this if you're "nice".
In other words, a man's job is to set and enforce boundaries for acceptable behavior. Women can do this job, but men are generally much better suited for it.
A man, then, must be the opposite of nice: he can be graceful, but always resolute.
B) Be a "wuss" and ignore disrespect with this set of step-by-step instruction manuals I, internet stranger, say to do with no rationale behind it other than "do."
C) Here is your "job" that I assigned you, as your boss.
A) Agreeing to everything means you don't have a spine
B) It's a fucking guideline. If you don't have your shit together and you don't want to listen to my advice, go figure your own shit out and stop being miserable
C) Jesus what a beta faggot. Nowhere did I decide I was anyone's boss, I simply was advancing my own thoughts on a subject given how poorly the conversation was going. Make a counter-fucking argument and stop being a fucking spineless troll.
Here's the actual fucking truth: this incel ideology is a cancer that will either be cured (by YOUR proactive efforts, not mine), or else destroyed completely.
Why?
Because incels are nothing other than men at the bottom of the pecking order. And, while the system definitely has its flaws (see: feminism), it happens to work for a great deal of people. So if you don't want to listen to some well-intended advice, sort your shit out before we sort you out. You've had far too much time engaged in your fucking conspiracy theories, you lot are just about as beneficial to society as the unabomber was at this point
Being nice or bad doesn't have little to do with it. Men and women want the most attractive/best mate as possible. Men and women tend to date people within the same aesthetic bracket, give or take a point. The acceptation occurs when women who date ugly people when they are rich and men who date poor people when they are attractive.
For men, the 'best mate' is most generally the most physically attractive/nicest mate (since a hot woman without a soul is just going to bleed you dry).
For women, the 'best mate' is the one who is best able to give her viable offspring, and then help to care for those offspring. So it's important to a woman that her mate is attractive, because that's important for the reproductive success of her offspring, but its more important that she has a guy who can provide for her and her children financially, and who has the constitution to fend off physical threats.
No, we no longer live in a world where saber tooth tigers show up at the entrance of our caves looking for a quick snack. We DO, however, live in a world where those in power exploit those without (which is how it's always been). So a woman benefits from having a man who can stand up for her in a social setting, while a man generally benefits from a woman's softer touch in interpersonal matters
Yes, these are generalizations, but I think you'll find that they hold across cultures and time periods. And there is some variance; I'm discussing means here, not what the tail ends of the distributions do.
On paper your propitiation is sound but in reality it's a little weak. As I mentioned there is a lot of evidence that supports that people date others who are at the same level of attractiveness. Men and women would like super attractive people but more often than not they only receive what they themselves have. You assert that men want the most attractive/nicest partner. Considering that, I'd argue that out of these two qualities attractiveness plays the biggest role (and if not there wouldn't be any market for "bad bitches"). And that women want the male who is most attractive and able to provide the most. But what science shows us differently. In your first post you made the case that being good guys get shit and aggressive males dominate with men and further imply that in your second post with being able to defend against physical threats. Sameness is what is essential. By rule of thumb couples tend to be more similar in many respects — including their genetics, physical attractiveness and cultural characteristics such as religion, politics and socioeconomic status. We may want all this other shit but more often than not we get what we put out.
I've read the literature, and I find the evidence compelling, save for one crucial dilemma:
similarity implies, on some level, shared genetic traits. And opting for the maximal degree of genetic similarity DOES NOT improve reproductive success, but as a strategy ultimately leads to critical failure.
Dissimilarity is crucial on some level, but I need to think further about how the constraints affect the system (because again, there seems to be a definite constraint on the other end as well).
I thinking you "zooming in" to close. By sameness I think it implies with fucking the dude down the street rather a girl in a small village in Poland falling in love with the concept of the "oriental male" across the known world, who travels there and who gets raped and murder along her travels. I'm not 100%, but the genetic variation isn't to drastic as a species. Plus as I like to think of myself as scientifically minded, I support empirical data over theory. Our theories should fit the evidence not the other way around.
Falling in love with a concept is pretty stupid to begin with.
There is something to be said though, about a male from outside your clan who has the means (intelligence + money) to travel to your area, and it could be worthwhile to mate with him instead of the pool of men that your GFs have access to. I ran into this situation in Colombia: a number of expats made some disparaging remarks about the native women being "gold diggers" but I think there's more going on besides being after the gringo's money (On a related note: I found out after I started travelling more regularly that travel stories were a win with the ladies at home)
Also there's a lot of weird things that you would think not offer "evolutionary value." Suicide, celibacy, and martyrdom come to hand. But people so often consider them in a vacuum. Perhaps the the traits that could lead to suicide or martyrdom are overall trait that lend to survival, hence they propagate, but on occasion they lead to death.
Agreed. There's also the complication that while suicide, celibacy, and martyrdom offer no value from an individual's perspective, evolution doesn't necessarily benefit the individual- it benefits the gene.
There are cases where one's self-sacrifice means that a kinsman lives (or, several kinsmen). So, if all kin share the same "martyrdom" gene, the gene stays in the population even as it causes some fraction of individuals carry that gene to remove themselves from the gene pool.
Exactly. It benefits the population or species. Also, it's important to consider that genes act together that offer evolutionary befits most of the time. And on occasion, these gene permutations, coupled with environmental factors and stress, result in negative evolutionary consequences for a subsection of the population.
Evolutionary speaking, even homosexuality can be observed this way, even though it is observed in many species.
There's a reason why "nice guy" is in scare quotes. Other variations include Nice Guy™. They're clearly differentiating Nice Guys from guys that are nice, yet you people insist on being willfully ignorant and wailing, "Why do they hate us because we're nice!!" Hint: It has nothing to do with you being nice.
Yeah I read his post but I don't think you did, hence why I am asking you to clarify where you saw him say anything remotely like "Why do they hate us because we're nice"
you are willfully ignorant by changing the meaning of "nice guy" in a way that fits your agenda: that nice guys have no problem getting laid, while assholes never get laid
The meaning of nice guy never changed, if we're talking about men that are kind. "Nice Guy™" is used to differentiate them from "guys who are nice people".
No, this person is correct. The proper rebuttal is "The "nice guy" thing is mostly a feminist strawman, an easy and socially-acceptable way to shrug off the advances of ugly, awkward males and feel righteous about it"
Historically, men were never nice to women. Women have always been physically and mentally inferior. Its not a bad thing, its just how things are. Gender equality is a modern concept that may or may not survive
The "nice guy" thing is mostly a feminist strawman, an easy and socially-acceptable way to shrug off the advances of ugly, awkward males and feel righteous about it
Most “nice guys” aren’t ugly, it’s that they lose their shit when a woman doesn’t give them attention 24/7. Even if you were to politely reject them they’ll still go crazy.
Yeah but women only choose the guy because they want him to betabux. It was a poor example I do admit, a better example would be a guy who spends his time volunteering at a homeless shelter.
I've written an in-depth explanation elsewhere in this thread on why you don't actually want to be "nice".
Volunteering at a homeless shelter is nice. The problem is that isn't what women want in their lives, they need a man who is good but sets and maintains effective boundaries. Women are nice themselves. They aren't very good though at being disagreeable, even when being agreeable (submissive) is bad for themselves and those around them.
The truth is that you don't even need to be a rockstar to get laid. Just be somewhat competent at something (eg, a job that pays well or even a hobby like woodworking that demonstrates potential to provide the things for a woman's family that she can't provide herself).
Males are more violent and aggressive, but we idealize feminine traits. Females are the opposite, they consider stereotypically male traits as ideal and “higher” while we tend to see them as more animalistic. Everythijtnmakes much more sense when you understand women this way.
You're like 95% of the way there, with the caveat that an overly "masculine" guy will scare away more women than he will attract.
And what do I mean by "overly masculine"? Think gym bro who constantly obsesses about how big he's gotten, or how "hard" he looks. That's probably not the problem most incels face, since getting to that stage will mean you've passed through your optimal masculinity (ie, the sweet spot where you're attractive but not threatening).
Other than that, I think there's a great deal of insight in your comment... there's a great deal of tension between men and women (especially when they're younger) regarding their intrinsic natures vs what they find appealing in the opposite sex vs how they imagine the opposite sex views them.
Hey, i am not the one going arround and chaning the meaning of words just to hold up my just forld fallacy. r/niceguy dicksucker like you are the lowest of the low in my view, why dont you just accept the fact that women dont like "niceness" as a traith xD?
Women like guys who are nice but along with that they like guys with personalities. If all you have to offer is niceness then that’s pretty boring. Also we can tell when a guy is being nice with ulterior motives and we avoid them.
We do value niceness but if it’s the only thing you can offer then that’s boring. We value other personality traits along with niceness. Secondly ‘nice guys’ treat being nice as if it’s some godly act that makes them deserving of sex when really it’s just called being a decent human being and is expected from every one. If you have to tell me that you’re nice then I probably won’t believe you because if you really are nice then you would be able to show it through your actions.
Also we can tell when a guy is being nice with ulterior motives and we avoid them.
no you cant
Yes we can, how do you think we avoid them?
I would say more but I’m too lazy to type it all out.
Women don't like timid guys. They don't like being raped either.
Somewhere in the wide fucking chasm that exists between those extremes is where you need to be in order to actually get laid
What I don't fucking get about any of you is how thousands of generations of your ancestors managed to reproduce, and yet you fucking imbeciles act as though you're completely incapable of doing the same.
raits. Females are the opposite, they consider stereotypically male traits as ideal and “higher” while we tend to see them as more animalistic. Everythijtnmakes much more sense when you understand women this way.
I used to wonder about this too. After reading the sub for awhile I realised it's not strictly about getting laid, but being desired. Getting laid is usually brought up as shorthand as it relates to desire. Women can marry, fuck, and even reproduce with men they don't truly desire. Modern day sexual freedom combined with tinder reveals what women truly desire by showing who they end up choosing to fuck when unrestrained by social barriers and given a digital menu of infinite dick: the tallest, best looking, meanest men. Not the types of mild mannered stable men their mothers and grandmothers were stuck with due to various limiting circumstances
I really like the first part of your comment about the difference between getting laid and being desired. But this:
Modern day sexual freedom combined with tinder reveals what women truly desire by showing who they end up choosing to fuck when unrestrained by social barriers and given a digital menu of infinite dick: the tallest, best looking, meanest men
would mean that porn/the internet/dating sites prevent women from getting laid, because statistically speaking none of them are models with perfect tits and asses who suck your dick to wake you up in the morning and dress up nice enough to take home to meet mom on Thanksgiving.
We all have fantasies. And then there's reality. You have to make a choice, and any woman that actually succeeds in finding a partner these days has to settle just like any guy who realizes that anal ain't all that easy to come by in the real world.
That conclusion presumes that men and women have the same sexual selective power. They clearly don't. the average Women can easily live out her sexual fantasies irl. The average man can't. He has only porn, because getting even one woman to consider him sexually requires monumental effort and time, while a typical woman can order a Chad on tinder in minutes. Not even an exaggeration.
I think it’s to do with the technological era we live in...I’m not an incel but I’ve pondered this question you’ve raised and I think yeah back in the day, the dating pool wasn’t so big (tinder) and chicks weren’t so focused on looks (Instagram)
Are you really so dense you thought that post was talking about genuinely nice men? No, it's talking about the guys that claim to be "nice guys" right up to the point of rejection, then go on a tirade berating and threatening the woman they just asked out. That's what we mean when we reference "nice guys"; genuinely kind men are the kind of men many women like.
I smell bullshit. It's either a handsome or an ugly creep. Ain't no such thing as a nice guy. I have been pretty nice to one of my kindergarten female friend, after 20 years now when I thought she might wanna go on a date with me , I found out she has one of those nice looking drug addicts as her boyfriend. Recently it was her birthday and I wished her the right at the midnight, still waiting for her to say thanks after 5 days. That's yall dumb thots be rolling
I dislike nice guys just like the next Red Pilled/Black Pilled dude for inflating women's egos further, but honestly, the way women (and the men regurgitating women's crap) hate on them is ridiculous.
If you took them serious, there is an epidemic of guys out there who act nice and then become rapists and killers when rejected. It's such a pile of bullshit. Women only hate on nice guys this much because they're unattractive men and drag women's true nature into the light. And if there is one fucking thing that women hate, it's being seen as the shallow, instinct-driven primates we all are. Women literally see themselves as too deep and virtuous to be shallow. Instead, they convinced everyone that shallowness is an exclusively male characteristic. So, in order to resolve this huge contradiction and cognitive dissonance of not being attracted to men who ought to be a perfect match, those men must be painted as evil by building strawmen of epic proportions. The clearest indicator of their strawmanning is how women always accuse nice guys of only wanting "to get in their pants", because desiring casual sex makes men, especially unattractive ones, extra disgusting. A dumb notion in itself, but it's also simply a lie. Nice guys base their behavior on a romantic fantasy dictated by media and female propaganda. And they also project their standards onto women, many men would be extremely flattered to have the female equivalent of a nice guy pining for them. Women literally say it themselves in their tirades: "nice is the baseline!", but that's untrue from men's point of view. The vast majority of nice guys want normal, loving relationships, not casual sex.
I do not have that much sympathy for nice guys, but I can exactly understand where they're coming from. And this sheer, unfiltered hatred against them really reveals women's utter lack of humility and gratefulness, plus the seething scorn for unattractive men. Nice guy shaming is toxic feminity in purity.
This is obviously making fun of “nice guys” who are notorious shitheads and creepy sexists, the fact that this offends you is making it even more obvious that this is who you are. Self awareness could save your life my dudes.
But “nice guy” - as it’s used here, in quotation marks - means one of those assholes who goes on and on constantly about themselves and what nice guys they are, only to turn around and grab your thigh or try to stick their hand up your skirt or grab your boobs when you least expect it and definitely didn’t consent to it - so basically the opposite of a nice guy.
You claim that women choose mates solely on appearance is wrong. How do rich men get banged?
If anything manipulation is applied reality... Pushup bras = applied physics. Make the breast look larger with structural support.
Your idea of feminism is off. For most of history women, like many other groups were legally and socially marginalized. It is true that in today's climate that women are equal and surpassing male's in many criteria, but that doesn't diminish the history of marginalization.
First off I don't agree with your assertion that their sexuality is not moral (depends on how you to choose to define those things I suppose) based on anadotical and empirical evidence. I'm constly observing couples where I am wondering how she ended up with him and how he end up with her. Plus there is evidence to support that males and females end up with people that are generally within their same ascetic bracket (give or take a point). So by sexual morality I assume that you perceive women's promiscuity as "immoral." However, the same criteria can be said of men. Attractive men or female want to bang as many people as they can. Men with money or looks target women the most attractive woman they can and try to bang as much as possible. If this wasn't so, the concept of a chad wouldn't be in existence. As for the argument women want bad guys, I see this fault in the same reasoning as stated before. No women don't want bad guys, they want the most attractive mate possible; which holds true for men as well.
I thinking you "zooming in" to close. By sameness I think it implies with fucking the dude down the street rather a girl in a small village in Poland falling in love with the concept of the "oriental male" across the known world, who travels there and who gets raped and murder along her travels. I'm not 100%, but the genetic variation isn't to drastic as a species. Plus as I like to think of myself as scientifically minded, I support empirical data over theory. Our theories should fit the evidence not the other way around.
No, I won't reread what I wrote because you're too lazy or strictly incapable of responding. And yes, I managed to piece that together - your extreme arrogance gave it away.
The women say they want nice guys, but then they choose men solely based on appearance.
But they don’t even say they want nice guys anymore. I think that’s what u/dumb_intj was marveling at. Although there’s something to be said for women becoming a little bit more honest. But that might be because their depravity is increasing to such a degree that they can’t hide all of it anymore.
Why don't you just say "rapist" instead of "nice guy", if what you mean is rapist?
The problem is women also say things like "you're a nice guy, but.." and "you're such a nice guy I'm sure there's someone out there for you" to unsuccessful men. So when men hear "nice guy", we think the types of ugly/nerdy/shy men women call "nice guys" while letting them down gently, the types of men women don't want to date.
If you mean a completely different type of guy (some entitled player who goes on about how he's a decent guy and then assaults girls), why don't you use a less ambiguous term?
143 comments
1 Samuel_Sniper123 2018-05-21
This is ragefuel tbh.
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
Check r/niceguys for the definition of "nice guy" here
1 realmonkeycel 2018-05-21
That sub is losers making fun of losers one step below them in the pecking order. Reminds me another sub
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
So you are already aware of the "nice guy" phenomenon, which is distinctly different from guys who are nice?
1 realmonkeycel 2018-05-21
You mean the guys that go "you fucking piece of shit bitch i cant believe you rejected me im such a nice guy?" How often does that actually happen? Because the screenshots on /r/niceguys lead me to believe theyre mainly making fun of poor beta guys who misinterpreted their crushes interest levels. Obviously socially awkward losers but they'll learn given time. It seems like the definition of a "nice guy" is quite distorted.
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
It happens a lot more than is healthy, and usually happens in real life rather than over the internet.
1 mary1j 2018-05-21
It happens all the time actually. I never see it coming either, all happy and chatty then bam! They explode and I'm the devil.
1 Grand_boy 2018-05-21
Honestly I don't condone the behaviour, but the whole thing is so pathetic. Is getting a mean text from a guy in an emotionally compromised state after months of trying really that horrible . What they do is not wise or right but its such a minor offence. The fact that people even give a shit shows how much low SMV guys are hated. Also I like that some of this woman were "friends" with the guys for years and many times the guy saved them from real shit. Yet the second he sends her a mean text he is suddenly the devil and should be publicly shamed. Fucking harpies.
1 ctech_n 2018-05-21
yes "nice guys" are distinct from blackpill. Nice guys usually move from beta to bluepill to redpill over time, whereas we have literally just given up.
1 ButtholeEmoji 2018-05-21
This image takes the negative personality stereotype of the "nice guy" and portrays them as physically unattractive, which is emblematic of the "beautiful is good" effect embedded in our culture. In turn, this makes people quicker to label ugly men as "nice guys".
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
"Nice guys" are people who put women on pedestals, then get angry when rejected, to the point of stalking, assault and even killing.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
fuck of this sub already magratmfatty
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
You first, sweetiepie.
1 Detoxification- 2018-05-21
The implication here is that being a "nice guy" means that you're physically unattractive, which is consistent with what we're saying: women only mock "nice guys" if they're unattractive to begin with.
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
Being a "nice guy" is not dependent on looks, although the bulk of them do tend to being overweight, living in basements, wearing fedoras, polishing katanas and referring to women as "Ma'am" or "Milady" a lot.
1 Detoxification- 2018-05-21
No, that's not actually true. It's just what Reddit wants you to think, and you believe it because of the Halo effect. You're just proving our point.
1 MagratM 2018-05-21
You don't believe there are people out there that get irrationally angry because someone smiled at them politely once, then turned down their advances?
1 lonely_suicidal_cel 2018-05-21
You didn't answer his first point
1 joemo555 2018-05-21
They constantly tell you that being nice isn't attractive. If you are still nice to girls it's just you bring an idiot
1 dumb_intj 2018-05-21
How did we get to a society where being nice to women is unambiguously a bad thing?
1 trevmon 2018-05-21
who made up chivalry. some cuck from medieval times
1 MadaIine 2018-05-21
The most praticed medieval chivalry is a form that says it's followers must obey god, have respect fot higher ups, and respecting women came last.
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
It's REALLY simple dude.
The numale cuckolds "listen" to what women say and run with it.
The women say they want nice guys, but then they choose men solely based on appearance. Now, women have a special status in our society in pretty much every facet possible. We all know this. Everyone knows this. Women especially know this which is why they damsel and pretend "the incels" hiding in the shadows and under the bed are out to get them.
If women admitted they only care about appearance, they would lose their special position in society and would be seen as they are: catty, deceitful (down to their makeup), rapidly depreciating sluts.
Instead, they made this massive caricature of "nice" in order to not admit they don't actually have sexual morality (because the entirety of feminism is implied to based on sexual morality but is actually about power), because otherwise they lose their privledges.
Thankfully, with the internet, women's lies coincide with "empowerment" to show us they are lying via their actions, and mass information which shows their lies.
Thus, "nice" is bad because otherwise who is she? Don't you see?
1 namerson 2018-05-21
What do you choose women based on?
1 rileymils 2018-05-21
We can’t choose any women, lol
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
very low iq comment
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
1 banana_lumpia 2018-05-21
Whatever the fuck do you mean? Have you never heard of a guy dating a girl only cause she's cute? Get your head outta your ass
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
men dont go arround saying that they want nice and sensible women just to then date asshole women. women do.
like, i didnt even say that men dont go arround dating a girl only cause shes cute. But women dont either. The difference is that the minium looks Treshhold for a women to be passable is very very low (she doesnt even have to be not fat), and if you pass the looks treshhold then yes being cute can def. get you laid(not that women even need to be cute)
And yes, i heard of guys dating girls just because theyre cute. its very common.a sweet feminine personality makes a women attraktive. it doesnt however work the other way arround.
1 namerson 2018-05-21
Sucks to be you.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
keep yourself save
1 namerson 2018-05-21
you alright?
1 banana_lumpia 2018-05-21
Yes we do, your gender bias and blindness is what keeps you incel. Sucks to see the world in such a hostile and bleak glasses
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
But “nice guy” - as it’s used here, in quotation marks - means one of those assholes who goes on and on constantly about themselves and what nice guys they are, only to turn around and grab your thigh or try to stick their hand up your skirt or grab your boobs when you least expect it and definitely didn’t consent to it - so basically the opposite of a nice guy.
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
Those assholes who go on about how amazing they are in your presence before being compelled to feel you up because you're just that amazing and men are just that creepy, right?
Are you talking about the men you meet on your shift and the strip club?
Nah, it's ugly eunuchs who have to know their place. Be real, we're all sick of your feminine bullshit. Not everyone was born yesterday.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
Lol are you serious right now? I was giving a general description of what it actually means, stop being so defensive.
Oh, wait, I forgot. I’m a girl so I’m like so privileged because I’ve been sexually assaulted. 🙄 Grow up.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-21
Why don't you just say "rapist" instead of "nice guy", if what you mean is rapist?
The problem is women also say things like "you're a nice guy, but.." and "you're such a nice guy I'm sure there's someone out there for you" to unsuccessful men. So when men hear "nice guy", we think the types of ugly/nerdy/shy men women call "nice guys" while letting them down gently, the types of men women don't want to date.
If you mean a completely different type of guy (some entitled player who goes on about how he's a decent guy and then assaults girls), why don't you use a less ambiguous term?
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
I didn’t make the PWW. Direct your anger where it belongs.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-21
There's no anger in my comment. It's a logical argument and a question.
Which of those types of guys do you (personally, not anyone else) mean when you use the term "nice guy"? Why do you use that term, instea
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
When I refer to a jerk that is referenced in the PWW, I just generally call them creeps. Rapist is a strong term, considering grabbing a titty is sexual assault, but not rape. I was merely trying to explain why this PWW was referring to creeps and not men like you guys.
Sorry for the delay in response. I’ve been downvoted so much that I get locked out from commenting for several minutes, so I get frustrated and give up for a while.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-21
Ok. What are your thoughts on saying "jerk" or "assualter" then? What's a PWW?
Men like us are also called creepy (or at least we feel women see us as creepy because of the constant rejections), so we get confused with the words.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
Jerk and assaulter are good words for guys like that. I call the guy that did it to me my assaulter.
I understand that guys like you are called creepy. I just wish you wouldn’t paint all women with the same brush.
I’m not the type of person to dismiss people based on their looks and I don’t deserve to be hated for it. I don’t even know why I come here, tbh. I guess I hope to show some of the men here a different perspective.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-21
What makes you think I'm painting ALL women with the same brush?
What makes you think we're all hating you for it? Are you perhaps painting us all with the same brush, instead of seeing we don't all think the same?
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
You specifically, maybe not. Our conversation leads me to believe that maybe not. But I have received a lot of vitriol in this thread when I’m just trying to clear up what seems to be a misunderstanding about the meaning of the terms in the PWW. Maybe that means I am painting everyone here with the same brush, and for that I apologize.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-21
Thanks. Your explanation was also helpful.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
Thanks. And thank you for showing me kindness here.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
Also, way to completely project your insecurities on to me while also entirely ignoring what I said.
I know I’m in the he-man woman hater’s club here and all, but you should understand what it means to scream so loud that you can’t hear your own voice.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
jfl if you fall for that next level bait.
Men wake up and realize that women go for assholes instead of nice guys even though they allways say they only like nice and caring guys
women and numales counter with changing the definition of nice guys so that nice guys now means "asshole".
and you fall for it ...smh
1 SkankHunter1488 2018-05-21
That's only bad when the man doing it isn't hot. This is independent of whether he "goes on and on constantly about himself and what a nice guy he is." A hot guy who does both of those things would turn you on, and receive your retroactive consent. An ugly guy who does the same would creep you out. The independent variable here is what he looks like.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
You’re assuming facts not in evidence.
Attractiveness is subjective. I’ve seen dudes who look like they just walked off the pages of a magazine turn into completely ugly motherfuckers because of the way they act and/or treat women.
And I’ve met guys that probably don’t even register on the average person’s 10 scale become 10,000x more attractive because they don’t act like douchebags.
Obviously I don’t speak for all women, but I am not, nor have I ever been, someone who thinks looks mean everything. Looks fade, my dude, and quickly at that, man or woman.
1 gufestus2 2018-05-21
Bullshit. Looks are the first thing anyone notices. If you don't have looks you're pretty much done for.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
I never said no one notices people’s looks, I said they don’t mean everything.
Let’s say you and I meet in a bar. Obviously we don’t know what each other look like; but to each other, neither of us are attractive at first glance. We wouldn’t give each other a second glance if asked. But later we just do happen to be next to each other while ordering drinks and a commercial comes on for something we both think is stupid, and one of us comments about it, so the other replies and a conversation is struck up. And later on, as we realize we have more and more things in common, we are suddenly more attracted to each other.
I would rather have a relationship based on that, on something that’s real, than just be with some random asshole just because he’s hot according to some arbitrary scale somebody made up.
1 gufestus2 2018-05-21
Most likely what happens. We both go into bar. I'm attractive and get girls easily. So I approach you. Since I'm attractive you think everything I say and do is funny. We talk and then go to my home and fuck.
A different scenario. I'm super ugly. We both walk into bar. Im ugly so I'm used to not getting attention. So I sit alone. You, somehow, sit next to me. Some commercial comes on that I find stupid. Me being the autist I am try to strike up a conversation with you. You notice my face and are instantly repulsed by me. You think I'm a creep who just hits on random girls at bars.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
Nah.
I have pretty gnarly social anxiety so if I was at a bar I’d most likely be off by myself or at least where there were less people, too. As I said in an earlier comment, I’ve never been a “looks are everything” person. I’m definitely not a supermodel by any [super loose] definition of the word myself. And I’d only think you were a creep if you said something creepy.
1 gufestus2 2018-05-21
Ahh. But you won't. Because that's how most encounters like this go. "Good looking guy" - Fuck him. "Ugly guy" - What a creep!
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-21
Brutal
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-21
How naive can you be?
No one cares what you would rather have, we are trying to characterize what generally happens between the sexes. And you honestly don't have the sophistication in thought to realize that hot guys are not defined by an arbitrary scale but by how physically attractive they are to a given woman and women at large.
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
Lol. Okay, buddy. Reread what you just wrote and then get back to me.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-21
No, I won't reread what I wrote because you're too lazy or strictly incapable of responding. And yes, I managed to piece that together - your extreme arrogance gave it away.
1 SkankHunter1488 2018-05-21
I'm citing well known facts that are often omitted when women try to claim that it all boils down to personality. Women don't want those facts to be considered because it ruins the attempt at deceit.
We've all seen those Tinder experiments where Chad can say literally anything and still get females' personal info. If you're a hot guy, you can't offend a woman no matter how hard you try.
1 Katiemarie993 2018-05-21
That’s because women are all different. Some women like assholes. Some women like needy guys. Some women like fat guys. Yes most girls are attracted to certain “hot” guys but that doesn’t mean all of them are going to sleep with said guys. Also tinder is for hookups. No girl is going to care about personality for a hookup. They care about personality for a relationship.
1 SkankHunter1488 2018-05-21
AFBB
1 El_dar_ 2018-05-21
The person you're describing barely even exists, and when he does women love him. The asshole with a heart of gold is a massively popular trope. On the other hand any man who dares to wonder out loud why women often date jerks or complains at all about their lack of dating success is immediately shouted down as a nice guy. Guaranteed near 100% of those guys can barely even talk to a girl let alone randomly grope her.
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
You claim that women choose mates solely on appearance is wrong. How do rich men get banged?
If anything manipulation is applied reality... Pushup bras = applied physics. Make the breast look larger with structural support.
Your idea of feminism is off. For most of history women, like many other groups were legally and socially marginalized. It is true that in today's climate that women are equal and surpassing male's in many criteria, but that doesn't diminish the history of marginalization.
First off I don't agree with your assertion that their sexuality is not moral (depends on how you to choose to define those things I suppose) based on anadotical and empirical evidence. I'm constly observing couples where I am wondering how she ended up with him and how he end up with her. Plus there is evidence to support that males and females end up with people that are generally within their same ascetic bracket (give or take a point). So by sexual morality I assume that you perceive women's promiscuity as "immoral." However, the same criteria can be said of men. Attractive men or female want to bang as many people as they can. Men with money or looks target women the most attractive woman they can and try to bang as much as possible. If this wasn't so, the concept of a chad wouldn't be in existence. As for the argument women want bad guys, I see this fault in the same reasoning as stated before. No women don't want bad guys, they want the most attractive mate possible; which holds true for men as well.
1 AyeThatsAGoodNagger 2018-05-21
But they don’t even say they want nice guys anymore. I think that’s what u/dumb_intj was marveling at. Although there’s something to be said for women becoming a little bit more honest. But that might be because their depravity is increasing to such a degree that they can’t hide all of it anymore.
1 LooksMatterToWomen 2018-05-21
Because "nice" is all ugly and poor guys have to offer. He isn't even "good enough" for a settler with ulterior motives.
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
It's of the utmost imperative that men stop being nice to women. As you can see, they feel entitled to your niceness. They think you being nice is "default." Show them their entitlement.
1 MidnightManatee 2018-05-21
I appreciate your writing: well-crafted and formed. I stopped showing courtesy and respect to winners, manipulators, and whores a long time ago. Elderly people and the disabled - throwaways like us - I treat like royalty whenever possible.
1 Namaha 2018-05-21
Personally I think you should be nice to everyone (men and women) by default, and only revoke it of they prove to not be worthy of that niceness
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Definition of nice: adj 1. pleasing; agreeable; delightful 2. amiably pleasant; kind [other definitions omitted as they don't pertain to personality]
YOU SHOULD NEVER BE NICE BY DEFAULT
Being nice means that you're a wuss. That's it.
Incidentally, masculinity is negatively correlated with agreeableness (along with being negatively correlated with neuroticism, which is an independent factor but explains why all the really "nice" girls I know never have their shit together).
Your job, as a man, is to treat others with respect, and demand respect for yourself.
How does that work?
If the acquaintance is brief, and the slight given is inconsequential, ignore both the insult and the person and move on. This includes all interactions with women that have spurned you but the result of which doesn't threaten your standing at your job, with your family or your community (see below for those). If a guy bumps into you while you're walking down the sidewalk, move on.
If the offense given is great, then you need to retaliate. By retaliate, I mean exercise your powers within the constraints of the system (whether that system is the law for society at large, your family, or your job). You can't do this if you're "nice".
In other words, a man's job is to set and enforce boundaries for acceptable behavior. Women can do this job, but men are generally much better suited for it.
A man, then, must be the opposite of nice: he can be graceful, but always resolute.
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
Let's break down your post --
A) being nice is "wussy"
B) Be a "wuss" and ignore disrespect with this set of step-by-step instruction manuals I, internet stranger, say to do with no rationale behind it other than "do."
C) Here is your "job" that I assigned you, as your boss.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
A) Agreeing to everything means you don't have a spine
B) It's a fucking guideline. If you don't have your shit together and you don't want to listen to my advice, go figure your own shit out and stop being miserable
C) Jesus what a beta faggot. Nowhere did I decide I was anyone's boss, I simply was advancing my own thoughts on a subject given how poorly the conversation was going. Make a counter-fucking argument and stop being a fucking spineless troll.
Here's the actual fucking truth: this incel ideology is a cancer that will either be cured (by YOUR proactive efforts, not mine), or else destroyed completely.
Why?
Because incels are nothing other than men at the bottom of the pecking order. And, while the system definitely has its flaws (see: feminism), it happens to work for a great deal of people. So if you don't want to listen to some well-intended advice, sort your shit out before we sort you out. You've had far too much time engaged in your fucking conspiracy theories, you lot are just about as beneficial to society as the unabomber was at this point
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
THERE IT IS.
THERE IT IS.
Could smell you a mile away with your pep talk wannabedad bullshit.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Good job Sherlock.
You can tell how clearly society is sick of your whiny bullshit.
Grow the fuck up and deal with your issues. Get with the program or get run over by it.
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
Being nice or bad doesn't have little to do with it. Men and women want the most attractive/best mate as possible. Men and women tend to date people within the same aesthetic bracket, give or take a point. The acceptation occurs when women who date ugly people when they are rich and men who date poor people when they are attractive.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
For men, the 'best mate' is most generally the most physically attractive/nicest mate (since a hot woman without a soul is just going to bleed you dry).
For women, the 'best mate' is the one who is best able to give her viable offspring, and then help to care for those offspring. So it's important to a woman that her mate is attractive, because that's important for the reproductive success of her offspring, but its more important that she has a guy who can provide for her and her children financially, and who has the constitution to fend off physical threats.
No, we no longer live in a world where saber tooth tigers show up at the entrance of our caves looking for a quick snack. We DO, however, live in a world where those in power exploit those without (which is how it's always been). So a woman benefits from having a man who can stand up for her in a social setting, while a man generally benefits from a woman's softer touch in interpersonal matters
Yes, these are generalizations, but I think you'll find that they hold across cultures and time periods. And there is some variance; I'm discussing means here, not what the tail ends of the distributions do.
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
On paper your propitiation is sound but in reality it's a little weak. As I mentioned there is a lot of evidence that supports that people date others who are at the same level of attractiveness. Men and women would like super attractive people but more often than not they only receive what they themselves have. You assert that men want the most attractive/nicest partner. Considering that, I'd argue that out of these two qualities attractiveness plays the biggest role (and if not there wouldn't be any market for "bad bitches"). And that women want the male who is most attractive and able to provide the most. But what science shows us differently. In your first post you made the case that being good guys get shit and aggressive males dominate with men and further imply that in your second post with being able to defend against physical threats. Sameness is what is essential. By rule of thumb couples tend to be more similar in many respects — including their genetics, physical attractiveness and cultural characteristics such as religion, politics and socioeconomic status. We may want all this other shit but more often than not we get what we put out.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/does-our-own-attractiveness-affect-our-dating-preferences/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/03/the-real-reason-some-people-end-up-with-partners-who-are-way-more-attractive/?utm_term=.1e187b00c189 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3506598/Birds-feather-flock-especially-attractive-Good-looking-people-tend-seek-equally-beautiful-people-social-situations.html https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201505/are-we-attracted-people-who-look-us
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
I've read the literature, and I find the evidence compelling, save for one crucial dilemma:
similarity implies, on some level, shared genetic traits. And opting for the maximal degree of genetic similarity DOES NOT improve reproductive success, but as a strategy ultimately leads to critical failure.
Dissimilarity is crucial on some level, but I need to think further about how the constraints affect the system (because again, there seems to be a definite constraint on the other end as well).
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
I thinking you "zooming in" to close. By sameness I think it implies with fucking the dude down the street rather a girl in a small village in Poland falling in love with the concept of the "oriental male" across the known world, who travels there and who gets raped and murder along her travels. I'm not 100%, but the genetic variation isn't to drastic as a species. Plus as I like to think of myself as scientifically minded, I support empirical data over theory. Our theories should fit the evidence not the other way around.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Falling in love with a concept is pretty stupid to begin with.
There is something to be said though, about a male from outside your clan who has the means (intelligence + money) to travel to your area, and it could be worthwhile to mate with him instead of the pool of men that your GFs have access to. I ran into this situation in Colombia: a number of expats made some disparaging remarks about the native women being "gold diggers" but I think there's more going on besides being after the gringo's money (On a related note: I found out after I started travelling more regularly that travel stories were a win with the ladies at home)
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
Also there's a lot of weird things that you would think not offer "evolutionary value." Suicide, celibacy, and martyrdom come to hand. But people so often consider them in a vacuum. Perhaps the the traits that could lead to suicide or martyrdom are overall trait that lend to survival, hence they propagate, but on occasion they lead to death.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Agreed. There's also the complication that while suicide, celibacy, and martyrdom offer no value from an individual's perspective, evolution doesn't necessarily benefit the individual- it benefits the gene.
There are cases where one's self-sacrifice means that a kinsman lives (or, several kinsmen). So, if all kin share the same "martyrdom" gene, the gene stays in the population even as it causes some fraction of individuals carry that gene to remove themselves from the gene pool.
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
Exactly. It benefits the population or species. Also, it's important to consider that genes act together that offer evolutionary befits most of the time. And on occasion, these gene permutations, coupled with environmental factors and stress, result in negative evolutionary consequences for a subsection of the population.
Evolutionary speaking, even homosexuality can be observed this way, even though it is observed in many species.
1 Madeon929 2018-05-21
Exactly!!!!! Holy fuck!
1 BravoEchoEchoRomeo 2018-05-21
There's a reason why "nice guy" is in scare quotes. Other variations include Nice Guy™. They're clearly differentiating Nice Guys from guys that are nice, yet you people insist on being willfully ignorant and wailing, "Why do they hate us because we're nice!!" Hint: It has nothing to do with you being nice.
1 NewLoadsOfFun 2018-05-21
Find me a quote where he said that
1 BravoEchoEchoRomeo 2018-05-21
Did you misread his post or is this your sad attempt at a gotcha, because you think I was quoting him literally instead of paraphrasing?
1 NewLoadsOfFun 2018-05-21
Yeah I read his post but I don't think you did, hence why I am asking you to clarify where you saw him say anything remotely like "Why do they hate us because we're nice"
1 BravoEchoEchoRomeo 2018-05-21
I'm interested to hear how else you'd interpret "How did we get to a society where being nice to women is unambiguously a bad thing?"
1 NewLoadsOfFun 2018-05-21
By it's literal wording
as in how did we get to a point where being nice to women is seen as a negative?
Why are you looking for hidden meaning where there is none?
1 BravoEchoEchoRomeo 2018-05-21
How did I even imply a hidden meaning? In either case, the OP is under the impression that they're being ridiculed for being nice.
1 NewLoadsOfFun 2018-05-21
Because you seem to be putting words in the person you replied to mouth that he never said
Or that being nice is seen as a bad thing
1 BravoEchoEchoRomeo 2018-05-21
I've never had an echo disagree with me before.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
you are willfully ignorant by changing the meaning of "nice guy" in a way that fits your agenda: that nice guys have no problem getting laid, while assholes never get laid
1 BravoEchoEchoRomeo 2018-05-21
The meaning of nice guy never changed, if we're talking about men that are kind. "Nice Guy™" is used to differentiate them from "guys who are nice people".
1 balloonanusanimals 2018-05-21
No, this person is correct. The proper rebuttal is "The "nice guy" thing is mostly a feminist strawman, an easy and socially-acceptable way to shrug off the advances of ugly, awkward males and feel righteous about it"
like someone else said
1 qwerty8008135 2018-05-21
Historically, men were never nice to women. Women have always been physically and mentally inferior. Its not a bad thing, its just how things are. Gender equality is a modern concept that may or may not survive
1 noodlewhores 2018-05-21
"I want a nice guy" = "I want a chad that will actually text back"
1 bigantennaemay1 2018-05-21
Fixed it for the roastie.
1 BuildAChad 2018-05-21
Ugly guys have even less of a reason to be nice to foids, and Chad doesn't even pretend to think about being nice.
You're nice, she doesn't appreciate it. You're not nice, she doesn't appreciate it. Just spare yourself the effort and stop being nice.
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
It's beautiful in a tragic fashion.
Women have effectively demonized civil behavior. Normally I wouldn't but here, it's so appropriate...
enjoy the decline
1 NoNefariousness6 2018-05-21
The "nice guy" thing is mostly a feminist strawman, an easy and socially-acceptable way to shrug off the advances of ugly, awkward males and feel righteous about it
1 Grand_boy 2018-05-21
Reality right here.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
high iq comment.
1 ShrekSouffle 2018-05-21
Most “nice guys” aren’t ugly, it’s that they lose their shit when a woman doesn’t give them attention 24/7. Even if you were to politely reject them they’ll still go crazy.
1 vladimirlenincel 2018-05-21
Women are emotional creatures driven by biological impulses, a nice guy doesn’t give them the emotions they desire while the so-called “bad boy” do.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Horseshit. A guy who cures cancer is a rockstar. Women will evaluate accordingly.
Show me one example of an accomplished male who can't get laid
1 vladimirlenincel 2018-05-21
Yeah but women only choose the guy because they want him to betabux. It was a poor example I do admit, a better example would be a guy who spends his time volunteering at a homeless shelter.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
I've written an in-depth explanation elsewhere in this thread on why you don't actually want to be "nice".
Volunteering at a homeless shelter is nice. The problem is that isn't what women want in their lives, they need a man who is good but sets and maintains effective boundaries. Women are nice themselves. They aren't very good though at being disagreeable, even when being agreeable (submissive) is bad for themselves and those around them.
The truth is that you don't even need to be a rockstar to get laid. Just be somewhat competent at something (eg, a job that pays well or even a hobby like woodworking that demonstrates potential to provide the things for a woman's family that she can't provide herself).
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
elon musk.
he can get laid but only because they want to get his money
1 Ultramegasaurus 2018-05-21
And he still surgery maxxed
1 mikepencetheincel 2018-05-21
Males are more violent and aggressive, but we idealize feminine traits. Females are the opposite, they consider stereotypically male traits as ideal and “higher” while we tend to see them as more animalistic. Everythijtnmakes much more sense when you understand women this way.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
You're like 95% of the way there, with the caveat that an overly "masculine" guy will scare away more women than he will attract.
And what do I mean by "overly masculine"? Think gym bro who constantly obsesses about how big he's gotten, or how "hard" he looks. That's probably not the problem most incels face, since getting to that stage will mean you've passed through your optimal masculinity (ie, the sweet spot where you're attractive but not threatening).
Other than that, I think there's a great deal of insight in your comment... there's a great deal of tension between men and women (especially when they're younger) regarding their intrinsic natures vs what they find appealing in the opposite sex vs how they imagine the opposite sex views them.
1 Galagion 2018-05-21
FTFY
1 DixonCheese 2018-05-21
Just stop it with this NiceGuy misogyny.
Women are attracted to guys who are GENUINELY nice and respectful, like the awesomely feminist Christian Grey from 50 Shades.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Shhh they're going to shoot you too
lol
1 Sharp_Journalist 2018-05-21
The comment you're replying to is sarcasm.
God damn you're dense.
1 LORD-THUNDERCUNT 2018-05-21
“Nice Guys” is just another excuse for women to mock ugly guys. Seriously, if you’re ugly and nice it just comes across as creepy.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
dont forget: it's also a way to justify their love to chads who happen to be assholes
1 aliteralfuckingdick 2018-05-21
By ‘nice guy’ she means those guys that are only nice because they want sex and as soon as they get turned down they reveal the asshole within them.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
the good old not a true niceguy fallacy
1 aliteralfuckingdick 2018-05-21
Do I smell denial?
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
Hey, i am not the one going arround and chaning the meaning of words just to hold up my just forld fallacy. r/niceguy dicksucker like you are the lowest of the low in my view, why dont you just accept the fact that women dont like "niceness" as a traith xD?
1 aliteralfuckingdick 2018-05-21
Women like guys who are nice but along with that they like guys with personalities. If all you have to offer is niceness then that’s pretty boring. Also we can tell when a guy is being nice with ulterior motives and we avoid them.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
you just admitted that women dont value niceness very high
no you cant
1 aliteralfuckingdick 2018-05-21
We do value niceness but if it’s the only thing you can offer then that’s boring. We value other personality traits along with niceness. Secondly ‘nice guys’ treat being nice as if it’s some godly act that makes them deserving of sex when really it’s just called being a decent human being and is expected from every one. If you have to tell me that you’re nice then I probably won’t believe you because if you really are nice then you would be able to show it through your actions.
Yes we can, how do you think we avoid them?
I would say more but I’m too lazy to type it all out.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Women don't like timid guys. They don't like being raped either.
Somewhere in the wide fucking chasm that exists between those extremes is where you need to be in order to actually get laid
What I don't fucking get about any of you is how thousands of generations of your ancestors managed to reproduce, and yet you fucking imbeciles act as though you're completely incapable of doing the same.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
very very low iq comment.
1 bonusfruit 2018-05-21
I used to wonder about this too. After reading the sub for awhile I realised it's not strictly about getting laid, but being desired. Getting laid is usually brought up as shorthand as it relates to desire. Women can marry, fuck, and even reproduce with men they don't truly desire. Modern day sexual freedom combined with tinder reveals what women truly desire by showing who they end up choosing to fuck when unrestrained by social barriers and given a digital menu of infinite dick: the tallest, best looking, meanest men. Not the types of mild mannered stable men their mothers and grandmothers were stuck with due to various limiting circumstances
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
I really like the first part of your comment about the difference between getting laid and being desired. But this:
would mean that porn/the internet/dating sites prevent women from getting laid, because statistically speaking none of them are models with perfect tits and asses who suck your dick to wake you up in the morning and dress up nice enough to take home to meet mom on Thanksgiving.
We all have fantasies. And then there's reality. You have to make a choice, and any woman that actually succeeds in finding a partner these days has to settle just like any guy who realizes that anal ain't all that easy to come by in the real world.
1 bonusfruit 2018-05-21
That conclusion presumes that men and women have the same sexual selective power. They clearly don't. the average Women can easily live out her sexual fantasies irl. The average man can't. He has only porn, because getting even one woman to consider him sexually requires monumental effort and time, while a typical woman can order a Chad on tinder in minutes. Not even an exaggeration.
1 tattedupgymdude420 2018-05-21
I think it’s to do with the technological era we live in...I’m not an incel but I’ve pondered this question you’ve raised and I think yeah back in the day, the dating pool wasn’t so big (tinder) and chicks weren’t so focused on looks (Instagram)
1 UltraMegaGigaNigger 2018-05-21
Rape is the #1 female sexual fantasy.
1 puneet_grizzly97 2018-05-21
F**k outta here with that bullshit
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Are you telling me that your ancestors didn't reproduce?
You got your shitty genes from your parents. And they got them from theirs. and so on and so forth.
Yet, despite how "shitty" your genes are, they've been passed on for millennia without a problem. Until now. Because YOU decided it's hopeless to try.
Stop fucking watching porn and go do something with your miserable life
1 puneet_grizzly97 2018-05-21
Speak for your miserable life lady. I drive a mercedes , my life aint so miserable after all. Try harder next time.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
"Stfu Elliott Rodger is my prophet I adore him"
Yeah, you sound real happy in life. Try fucking your mercedes, cuz I guess that's the only tail pipe you can get
1 zippygraham 2018-05-21
The only person here with a miserable life is the faggot spending hours of his life insulting lonely virgin men on an online forum.
Stop projecting. You think someone with a healthy and successful life would be doing what you're doing? Lmao.
1 internetPatriot 2018-05-21
Hey I'm at the office getting paid to screw off. I'm ahead of budget on my project and nobody is going to give me shit, so yeah, I'm on Reddit
Nothing I've said was the least bit insulting. Try not being a sensitive little prick
1 hankmoodybruh 2018-05-21
Handmogs me
1 i-t-s-o-v-e-r 2018-05-21
Me too man. It's over.
1 Ub2w 2018-05-21
Say Ugly you fucking coward Roast Flapper.
1 grizzzzzzle 2018-05-21
it’s a “nice guy” because they’re just creeping up to the girl have any of y’all even been on reddit 🤦🏻♀️😑
1 Mediocre-banana 2018-05-21
Are you really so dense you thought that post was talking about genuinely nice men? No, it's talking about the guys that claim to be "nice guys" right up to the point of rejection, then go on a tirade berating and threatening the woman they just asked out. That's what we mean when we reference "nice guys"; genuinely kind men are the kind of men many women like.
1 puneet_grizzly97 2018-05-21
I smell bullshit. It's either a handsome or an ugly creep. Ain't no such thing as a nice guy. I have been pretty nice to one of my kindergarten female friend, after 20 years now when I thought she might wanna go on a date with me , I found out she has one of those nice looking drug addicts as her boyfriend. Recently it was her birthday and I wished her the right at the midnight, still waiting for her to say thanks after 5 days. That's yall dumb thots be rolling
1 quarkbotver1 2018-05-21
Feeemales
1 Westcoastincel 2018-05-21
theyre just proving that incels are right
1 hugodean44 2018-05-21
ROFL.
1 Ultramegasaurus 2018-05-21
I dislike nice guys just like the next Red Pilled/Black Pilled dude for inflating women's egos further, but honestly, the way women (and the men regurgitating women's crap) hate on them is ridiculous.
If you took them serious, there is an epidemic of guys out there who act nice and then become rapists and killers when rejected. It's such a pile of bullshit. Women only hate on nice guys this much because they're unattractive men and drag women's true nature into the light. And if there is one fucking thing that women hate, it's being seen as the shallow, instinct-driven primates we all are. Women literally see themselves as too deep and virtuous to be shallow. Instead, they convinced everyone that shallowness is an exclusively male characteristic. So, in order to resolve this huge contradiction and cognitive dissonance of not being attracted to men who ought to be a perfect match, those men must be painted as evil by building strawmen of epic proportions. The clearest indicator of their strawmanning is how women always accuse nice guys of only wanting "to get in their pants", because desiring casual sex makes men, especially unattractive ones, extra disgusting. A dumb notion in itself, but it's also simply a lie. Nice guys base their behavior on a romantic fantasy dictated by media and female propaganda. And they also project their standards onto women, many men would be extremely flattered to have the female equivalent of a nice guy pining for them. Women literally say it themselves in their tirades: "nice is the baseline!", but that's untrue from men's point of view. The vast majority of nice guys want normal, loving relationships, not casual sex.
I do not have that much sympathy for nice guys, but I can exactly understand where they're coming from. And this sheer, unfiltered hatred against them really reveals women's utter lack of humility and gratefulness, plus the seething scorn for unattractive men. Nice guy shaming is toxic feminity in purity.
1 reanimatedjimjones 2018-05-21
nice guy is just code for ugly
1 futmut 2018-05-21
Nice guy means an ugly guy, remember this basic rules my friends...
If your ugly you can never do something right, if your good looking they will always love you no matter how much of a piece of shit you are.
1 thelittlemermaider 2018-05-21
This is obviously making fun of “nice guys” who are notorious shitheads and creepy sexists, the fact that this offends you is making it even more obvious that this is who you are. Self awareness could save your life my dudes.
1 SnowMan878 2018-05-21
wait wait nice guys are shitheads and creepy sexists ?? just tell me
1 thelittlemermaider 2018-05-21
r/niceguys this is what she’s referencing, are you honestly saying you want to be considered to be in the same pool as these guys?
1 Hal_Inceldenza 2018-05-21
Not one comment pointing out how goddamn fat this slut is.
1 namerson 2018-05-21
What do you choose women based on?
1 valeristark 2018-05-21
But “nice guy” - as it’s used here, in quotation marks - means one of those assholes who goes on and on constantly about themselves and what nice guys they are, only to turn around and grab your thigh or try to stick their hand up your skirt or grab your boobs when you least expect it and definitely didn’t consent to it - so basically the opposite of a nice guy.
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
You claim that women choose mates solely on appearance is wrong. How do rich men get banged?
If anything manipulation is applied reality... Pushup bras = applied physics. Make the breast look larger with structural support.
Your idea of feminism is off. For most of history women, like many other groups were legally and socially marginalized. It is true that in today's climate that women are equal and surpassing male's in many criteria, but that doesn't diminish the history of marginalization.
First off I don't agree with your assertion that their sexuality is not moral (depends on how you to choose to define those things I suppose) based on anadotical and empirical evidence. I'm constly observing couples where I am wondering how she ended up with him and how he end up with her. Plus there is evidence to support that males and females end up with people that are generally within their same ascetic bracket (give or take a point). So by sexual morality I assume that you perceive women's promiscuity as "immoral." However, the same criteria can be said of men. Attractive men or female want to bang as many people as they can. Men with money or looks target women the most attractive woman they can and try to bang as much as possible. If this wasn't so, the concept of a chad wouldn't be in existence. As for the argument women want bad guys, I see this fault in the same reasoning as stated before. No women don't want bad guys, they want the most attractive mate possible; which holds true for men as well.
1 xxxrivenmainxxx 2018-05-21
fuck of this sub already magratmfatty
1 LightBringer777 2018-05-21
I thinking you "zooming in" to close. By sameness I think it implies with fucking the dude down the street rather a girl in a small village in Poland falling in love with the concept of the "oriental male" across the known world, who travels there and who gets raped and murder along her travels. I'm not 100%, but the genetic variation isn't to drastic as a species. Plus as I like to think of myself as scientifically minded, I support empirical data over theory. Our theories should fit the evidence not the other way around.
1 youjustabattlerapper 2018-05-21
No, I won't reread what I wrote because you're too lazy or strictly incapable of responding. And yes, I managed to piece that together - your extreme arrogance gave it away.
1 AyeThatsAGoodNagger 2018-05-21
But they don’t even say they want nice guys anymore. I think that’s what u/dumb_intj was marveling at. Although there’s something to be said for women becoming a little bit more honest. But that might be because their depravity is increasing to such a degree that they can’t hide all of it anymore.
1 PhucCheet 2018-05-21
Why don't you just say "rapist" instead of "nice guy", if what you mean is rapist?
The problem is women also say things like "you're a nice guy, but.." and "you're such a nice guy I'm sure there's someone out there for you" to unsuccessful men. So when men hear "nice guy", we think the types of ugly/nerdy/shy men women call "nice guys" while letting them down gently, the types of men women don't want to date.
If you mean a completely different type of guy (some entitled player who goes on about how he's a decent guy and then assaults girls), why don't you use a less ambiguous term?