We solved this pretty conclusively.

Personality is pretty important. Way more important than looks..

But only if you're above 8/10 in looks.

Ie; an 8.5/10 with a good personality >>> a 9.5/10 with a shit personality.

I've always found personality to be really important, but never dated above a 6. I think the whole "personality is important" has been left behind in the rush for matches online.

yes but you're a mature woman.

The details of reproduction, or finding the best mate for your kids and the biomechanics behind that are over.

Now I suppose you're free to live life and enjoy the subtler possibly sweeter things.

Even before my reproductive life was over (which was actually a long time past, and never really happened, since I'm childless) I dated people that I liked instead of just choosing for looks. There's no good going around with someone who looks good if they can't string a sentence together or hold a conversation even with the aid of a bucket to hold it in.

It's like cake- you could have a perfectly decorated, absolutely beautiful outside, but the cake inside is dry, overbaked, and tasting horrible, or you could have the other cake that looks like the kids had a field day with the icing, but the cake is gorgeously moist, perfectly baked and just melt-in-the-mouth dreamy...

Well there are wiser women out there but they are definitely the minority.

Suffice to say if every wise woman paired with every ugly but wonderful 'personality' guy.. there would be still a majority of ugly but wonderful personality guys that are incels.

On a statistical level your anecdotes are almost irreverent.

I use them to basically illustrate that I think the current generation are as thick as mince for wanting the dry, overbaked cake just because it looks prettier. It's a kind of "I do sympathise with you guys because things used to be different, and now they're bloody awful"

I think the whole "personality is important" has been left behind in the rush for matches online.

Like that.

5/10 with a good personality > 10/10 with a shit personality, from my experience. If you can't even keep a conversation, then it doesn't matter how attractive or unattractive you are.

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Change the doubt to rope and I’ll be happy.

Personality keeps you around, but looks is what gets you in the door in the first place.

Personality can get you through the door as well if you're a guy, but that's not exactly the case for guys. If you've ever tried to form a romantic relationship, it immediately becomes obvious that the guy is the one who does most of the initiating or approaching, and if anyone thinks personality isn't a factor in that then I'd go as far as to say they're so socially clueless that there's almost no hope for them.

I fixed my looks and the change in my romantic life was dramatic. Like rags to riches. Before then, I tried all the self-help material out there for 15+ years and was still single. Sure, people generally liked me and I had no shortage of female friends, but that's as far as things went. After the makeover, several women who were previously only interested in being friends changed their tune. I ended up in a 3 year relationship with one and a 2 year relationship with another.

Did you consider that perhaps when you were less attractive, you were less secure and self-assured?

I used to believe looks didn't matter and that it was all about confidence.

For some people who aren't ugly but they're just socially anxious, then I can see how "just be confident" can seem like a useful piece of advice, even though it obviously isn't. But I've found that its a much better course of action to have gone on adventures or accomplished things or being principled and reliable and trustworthy as a source of confidence rather than being confident for no reason.

Going along with this. I think nowadays, mostly what I see are women who say that won't date a guy who doesn't know the difference between your and you're, and I think this is totally silly. I've never had a woman break up with me in the past over grammar. My grammar is decent I guess, but it's not something I personally really obsess about. The other common thing I see on Tinder is "swipe left if you voted for Trump." Again, I've never had a woman break up with me over politics. It just bothers me because I see it very frequently.

I think its adorable how you based your opinion on what women want based on what they think they want, and its especially adorable that you've also based your opinion of what women want based exclusively on what they said they want on their social media profiles.

I’d choose personality, as long as the looks are ok

ok?

So not a 0/10 like me?

Women's attraction to a man is partially visual, obviously. But it's also very psychological. I wasn't a good looking guy by any stretch of the imagination. I I wasn't fit, nor was I handsome, nor was I tall, nor was I wealthy, but I could still get girls because they didn't care (and some of them were WAY out of my league). They were attracted to me because I was clever, I was blunt, I was playful, and I was funny.

If you're funny, then women will just sort of fall in your lap no matter how ugly you think you are. And being funny isn't the only desirable trait, women also like guys who are NOTEWORTHY, who do interesting things, who have interesting things to say, who have a interesting friends, and a few interesting interests. Being good at something! How can anyone forget being good at something?!

Women will assess your desirability with your looks as a factor. You might have to try harder to get a girlfriend than a better looking guy, and that's unfortunate. You can sit around and brood all you want about how ugly you are, in fact, you should, means less competition for me. So keep brooding, I don't even know why I bother.

Oh lookie here someone with access to women and is around them in social situations

I know, its almost as if I actually know what women are like.

Same here

While its obviously the case that women prefer a man who has those qualities, it isn't immediately obvious why women wouldn't also be attracted to the combination of elements of a man's character that speak volumes about his capacity for success and fitness in the future, and I think thats what women actually mean by a "personality".

From an evolutionary perspective, the potential for success is much more attactive to women than success itself because a man can be successful ONCE and then fail after that because he can't maintain it. Or an alternative and much more intelligent strategy would be to seek a man who has the combination of traits that will make him successful, which means he will continue to be successful into the future in the face of setbacks and will consistently be able to raise her offspring.

You could even go as far as saying women have evolved a very well-tuned 6th sense for men's potential. So if you're educated, ambitious, sociable, and bold then that will instantly make you magnetic, and magnetic to women in particular, especially women who want a long-term relationship. And if you have any shred of life experience then thats exactly the kind of woman you want.

Only people with both shitty looks and a shit personality will complain like this sub does. Men know if they aren't physically attractive to women then they need to work on their personality. If you are complaining that women still don't want to be with you and that all that matters to them is looks, then it's a guarantee you do not have either looks or a good persona. Real men know the difference and we all get that you are complaining about something you can't change past a degree-looks, because you are too lazy to work on your inner selves. Idk who you all think you are fooling, except each other.

Define what a good personality is

I would say my definition consists of several elements.

The first one is being unique and interesting, being distinct and memorable, inspiring curiosity. Having a novel opinion to say about a large number of varying topics.

I would say my definition consists of several elements.

The first is being straightforward about your intentions, and honest with yourself and about yourself, and have your word be reliable and carry weight. People can take your word, whether its something big or small. This might not seem like much, but the fact is if people can't trust you that also means they can't rely on you or respect you, nor can they form any meaningful relationship with you into the future either. If you're trustworthy that means people are willing to entrust you with responsibilities, and there is no difference between responsibility and power. Also have principles, a set of perimeters that nobody can ever persuade you into violating, you might have to develop your own moral philosophy.

The second one is being unique and interesting, attracting attention to yourself, speaking up, being distinct and memorable, inspiring curiosity, but not so much so that people find you annoying, try being distinct in a harmless or even a useful way like having a creative hobby. You can also have novel opinions and interesting comments about a large number of varying topics. But it cannot be stressed enough the importance of remaining authentic in that you're not saying anything that you don't actually believe because people can tell. And also not saying them too frequently or in an irrelevant way because then you'll seem pretentious.

The third is being endearing and relatable. We are all human beings after all, and it is universal among us that we suffer, but the kind of man who spills his pains and sorrows into the world doesn't seem like he'd be would be the most popular guy in the room, and you would be correct in that assumption. The trick is letting people know you're a human being just like them, that you're not an invincible superman, that you bleed just like everyone else, but here's the kicker, you're not letting that stop you! Man, oh man! Tell the whole room of strangers how nervous you are, but do it with a smile and then engage with them in conversation anyway! This is a common feeling, some of them felt it too, instantly humanizing and endearing yourself and making yourself vulnerable, but also demonstrating your resilience by talking to them anyway! And you might have inspired a few of the shyer bystanders in the process. (This is just an example, you can apply this to many other situations. Being extremely honest even when you think you shouldn't is a good way to do this). Having fears and telling people about them is fine as long as you conquer those fears and get stronger and braver and allowing them to a window into that can really make them like you instantly.

The fourth component in my opinion is just being fun-loving and enthusiastic. That doesn't mean not taking anything seriously, but it does mean having the willingness to laugh and make fun of even the things and people you like or respect most. Being able to laugh at yourself and laugh when other people make fun of you without getting embarrassed or angry. The ability to crack jokes and make people laugh before anyone else gets the chance to, humming, whistling, being silly, or just simply doing things that you find honestly amusing. It means not letting petty things get you down and being able to stay optimistic, and you can even get away with being a bit cocky.

And the final component, this one isn't nearly as straightforward as the others because it can get quite complicated and it depends on your preference which of the two you would rather be. Being intimidating and blunt vs. caring and polite. I might be mistaken in my assumption that these two are necessarily contradictory, but it seems to me they are. The former seems to work better for men, its the ability to be forceful, to look people in the eye and disagree with them, the ability to say no, to disrespect authority, to stand up for yourself and your own interests and not letting people take advantage of you, or even being the one who takes advantage of others, generally being competitive. The latter opposing trait works better for women and it involves being supportive and encouraging, being soft and hospitable, using kind words and generous gestures, generally being compliant and cooperative.

Press triangle because it's a lie and we have proof