post karma has a monetary value?

I would have no reason to be here if I had a gf. I would not be able to relate to anyone here anymore and would have someone better to spend my time with.

You'd come back here eventually. I escaped inceldom and I'm here because I remember what it feels like so I can relate to some degree. Getting a girlfriend doesn't reduce the greatness of the memes and the truth behind them.

literally die thanks.

you know partners/girlfriends start fights with you, get angry and try and embaress you? Especially if you're someone with a history of being a misfit/isolated. You think it's gonna be all sweetness

Hmm that's interesting. I'm going to have to look into that. I am a great deal more physically attractive than my husband but I love and value him so much I couldn't imagine life without him after 14 years. I never would have thought of such a thing. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I make videos sometimes about the men's rights issues and this may be one I need to research and cover.

The reason you guys don't have a gf is because you're here. Not literally, but because you guys endorse the views expressed by this community. Change the way you think, women are people too, chads and tyrones have just as much right to be with them as the rest of you. Be with, not get, because they are people.

i used to treat women as people and it got me nowhere.

When I stopped treating women like people I stopped being incel. I literally said “no more mr nice guy” and act more on instinct.

Maybe the problem is the way many incels go from the extreme of "spineless nice guy" to "bitter recluse" and never stop at one of the various middle grounds of just "guy".

That's not how it really happens. It's a actually a slow process that hurts because it goes against everything that we were thought was right but whatever

I literally was an incel once

And I was chad once

Woman are not people, they are sub-humans who lack reason.

I would kill 10 incels if that meant that I could have a gf that trully liked me.

i wouldn't be able to trust her, so id still be here getting blackpilled to keep my head level

This is high IQ.

Why even get in a relationship if u wont even be trying to build trust?

It's over

You can build trust and always be on the lookout.

You quite literally cant.

If you say so.

Well I'd say you can. Ain't gotta be that black and white

If youre constantly on the lookout youre not trusting your partner. Its that simple. You cant be both paranoid and trusting, it just doesnt go together.

“Trust” is an excuse used by women to cheat on you.

Guy: “Hey babe, can you stop going out with strange men at 2am in the morning?” Gf: “if you’re constantly on the lookout, you don’t trust me. Guy: ok go ahead

See what I mean?

"Why are you so black and white? Are you 12?" - Quote by you.

Yes you are, and your point is?

Youre the one thinking in black/white. If you cant trust a person and dont want to trust them, dont enter a relationship with them its that simple. Im not saying if a partner is being unfaithful, or is doing what you said in your example that you should continue to trust them no, but if you are constantly on the lookout you will get paranoid over the smallest things and you will become abusive to your partner or controlling. Theres a difference between reasonable worry and distrust, and paranoia and controlling behaviour.

Entering a relationship and trust are two different things in today’s world. I know you’ve been fed a lot of feel good crap and inspirational quotes like “follow your heart” and “if you can’t trust a person, don’t enter a relationship”, but reality does not work according to your feel good quotations. If you are supposed to trust people before entering. Relationship with them, you would be single forever because no one can be trusted, especially women.

And you wonder why you are alone?

Stop avoiding my question: are you a man or a woman?

Youre not doing yourself a favor with this. You work out how boundaries, trust and relationships work through being in one. Not through reading depressing sexistic idealogies up on the internet to give yourself an excuse to isolate.

Both genders cheat, both genders can emotionally scar you.

Also your last points literally contradict the points you previously made, just in the same post.

Did you ever read about "The Hedgehog Dilemma"? I suggest you do that, its not very long. Just look it up. Relationships are like that, its a lot of figuring out what works and what doesnt, and how to make it comfortable for the two people in it, but in the process of that youre meant to sometimes end up hurting each other.

Stop avoiding my question: ARE you a man or a woman?

I give up on you. Maybe in a few years you'll grow out of it.

It all makes sense now. Of course you would believe everything you say: because you are a woman. Women are PRIVILEGED in the world of romance and relationships, so you believe in a wonderful life because your life is actually wonderful. Here is how women like you are privileged:

1. Women have lots of options, the average man has almost none. That is why you can trust that your bf won’t cheat on you, because average guys know they haven’t got a lot of options so they aren’t more grateful for their relationships. Secondly, they also CANT cheat even if they wanted to because there are NO options to cheat.

Unfortunately, this doesn’t not apply to men because women on the other hand, have tons of options, and at every second of every day they can trade up for a better looking man.

Man, I wish half of the shit you people say was true, but sadly it isnt.

Of course you won’t belive it, your life is so privileged as a woman.

Hey, not_good_looking, just a quick heads-up:
belive is actually spelled believe. You can remember it by i before e.
Have a nice day!

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^why do low tier soyboys like you always push this line so hard?

Why cant you use logical thinking?

Why are you so black and white? Are you 12?

How would you build trust to a person while constantly doubting them?

So you don’t doubt human beings at all? LOL

Where did I say that?

“How do you bust trust to a person while constantly doubting them”

Trust and doubt are not mutually exclusive. You seem to think that you require 100% trust to be counted as trusting

Yes overread the word "constantly" in my sentence and re-interpret what I said totally differently, cause thats helpful.

I’m sorry if I hurt your idealised and naive view of how the world works, but it just doesn’t work like that. Question, are you a man or a woman?

I am in a relationship since several years and I have a lot of sex, I am pretty sure I know more about how relationships work than you do.

Stop avoiding my question: are you a man or woman?

Learn to read what a sentence is saying exactly, please.

The trick is trusting and being strong enough to deal with betrayal

of course a woman like you could trust your bf. The average man has no options to cheat even if they want to. But unfoturnately, that’s not true for women. Women can cheat on a better looking man at any te of the day.

My bf fucks enough other girls lol

You cannot build trust if you don't have the looks. Women will cheat on you, no matter how nice and trustworthy you act. You already lost before the game even began.

Why do you think that? Im asking about your personal experience now, not of stories you heard of.

Yes, i'm talking about personal experience. I had 2 gf's in the past. They abused me and treated me like shit when i looked bad. When i looked better, the mental abuse stopped. It's about power you know. People tend to dominate and abuse others who have less power. When you look good, you have more power, people will respect you. When you look bad, people won't respect you. Women don't respect bad looking guys. They treat them like shit, most of them. It's just pointless having a relationship as a bad looking guy.

Can you provide more details of what the abuse exactly consisted of? How did you improve your looks? Also, if you had two relationships already, youre not really incel?

Yes but i relate to the philosophy behind it. A lot of incels think that when you have a gf, the problems are gone. In fact, that's when the real problems begin. It comes down to the fact that there's no real love for a man without good looks. A woman needs to look up to her man. My ex gf cheated on me, and she tried to emotionally abuse me by saying bad things. She took and took and gave nothing in return. You see, a lot of women in their 20s are abused by Chad. Sometimes they need an ugly or average man for a temporary relationship, to regain their confidence and powers. When they're ready, they go back fucking Chad. Meanwhile, they have sucked all the validation from their boyfriend. The theories of incels are rocksolid. These are the building blocks of human nature. It's not only about relationships. All women treat average or bad looking men way worse than good looking men. It goes from sisters to mothers to your local cashier.

When i read normies saying 'you need to treat a woman good' i just laugh. They really don't understand how things work in practice. It's not incels who treat them bad, nor the creepy looking neighbour, it's actually chad who treats them like dirt. It's all about looks.

People treat other people badly, thats how humans are, thats not just dictated by gender. Theres boys who abuse other boys, girls who abuse girls, men who abuse women, women who abuse men. I am sorry that you got cheated on though.

Did you hear me say that it was dictated by gender? But we're talking about relationships with women here, right? In my opinion it's really pointless to enter a relationship with a woman when you're average or below. Maybe to get some bad life experience and know how things really are, but otherwise, it's just not fun.

You do realize that a relationship includes two people, and in our case both a man and a woman? If you limit your thinking like that, wont it act like a cage? Is it.. Fun to just blame everything on women and act like they are the only ones who do shitty things like cheat on their partner?

You're just putting words in my mouth. Besides, it's a pointless remark, cause this forum is about men and relationships with women and their nature. You're asking questions, thinking I might think: 'yeah, you might be right, it's not only women'. As if i don't know that already. Buy i'm not a gay man, so I don't need to talk about how other men treat bad looking guys when it comes to relationships. When it comes to real life, we already know that. That's why we talk about bullying and stuff. Everything in life is about looks.

I think theres four qualifiers, intelligence, personality, money/power, looks. If you dont have any of that youre fucked, if you have just one or two of that youre still gonna find a person whos into you.

Damn, talk about willfully misrepresenting his argument. His point has NOTHING to do with attractive men abusing their partners because it has no relevance to his situation. He's baring a very real anxiety to you, one generated by actual experience, and you're trying to find technicalities to disqualify his experience. Which by the way, you're totally failing at as your arguments aren't logically consistent.

You would have been better off telling him he needs to develop a more dominant personality. It's only about the perception of power, but also the display of it. Typically you wouldn't want a woman who would abuse you anyway but if you show her you aren't going to take any shit, she'll think twice before starting any.

Im not gonna show empathy to ppl who have none for me so stop trying to guilt me. & I wouldnt have been better off telling him to be a dominant asshole who thinks he needs to be in charge as if a relationship works like that and can still be healthy. If you try to dominate in ur relationship then u need someone who genuinly wants to be submissive, otherwise youre just gonna be abusive. If a guy tried to show me how dominant he is in an relationship where I value being equal, i'd just dump his paranoid ass, I want someone who looks eye to eye with me not a dictator who turns something that should bring stability and happiness into a warzone. My arguments are consistent, this logical wreck incels build themself as guidelines however isnt based on anything but hatred, insecurities and excuses not to change their situation. This guy believes he got cheated on by his ex because of his looks, when in fact she just is a cheater, her personality was like that, it doesnt have anything to do with women as a general or with him being ugly or not enough otherwise, theres enough men who cheat on women too, I am pointing that out cause it dismisses this whole narrative of 'Women are evil and can never be trusted' no, people can cheat on u, some have mindsets like that, some dont. My honest advice? Yes, look out for red flags before entering a relationship but if youre gonna get into a relationship you already should know the person well enough to have a foundation of trust and friendship, most romantic relationships lack that basic foundation of genuine friendship, my partner is my ally in life so he is my best friend too, if I dont like him as a friend I cant commit to him romantically. If you cant trust her, and need to constantly doubt your partner, then whats the point? If something happens that makes u insecure in a relationship open honest communication, but dont try to control your partner because of things she didnt even do to you, but someone else did. Thats just meant to ruin everything from the start. But ofc, thats not the kind of advice y'all wanna hear, cause the truth is intimate relationships are trial and error, theres no clear set of rules to follow and each connection is unique.

Who said he, I or other incels don't have empathy for you? I don't know your particular predicament but empathy for others is my default state of being.

Funny that you equate dominant with asshole. Why can't a good man have a dominating presence? I also meant dominant without being domineering. Regardless of the kind of person you're with, you need that unshakable self-assurance or you'll lose yourself whenever you end up in a bad relationship.

We actually agree on most things however, but naturally you assume all incels are alike and lump them together with those who's views are the most radical and incoherent. Our disagreement was mostly centered on the lack of tact you're showing to someone who has obviously been burnt. I highly doubt you would be this callous towards a woman or even a man posting about this problem in another sub. Using this subforum isn't an excuse for you to suddenly deem the other person on the other side of the keyboard as somehow unworthy of the requisite compassion and respect you would afford others. Heed your own advice and remember that everyone here is a complex individual worthy of basic decency until they prove otherwise. Many men here are also not in the right frame of mind, and hostility, no matter how cathartic you may find it, will do nothing to remedy it. It may even entrench their views further. Naturally this is an open forum and you're free to post your opinions wherever you like, but I urge you, if your purpose is to help, that you take an approach that is more to conducive to that end.

He wrote "A woman needs to look up to a man" & I mentally checked out on that one. I think youre alright, hes not.

I don't think that statement is inflammatory or misogynistic. Either way it doesn't impinge on his character in my estimation. It's a sweeping generalization for sure, but on the grand scale, it works. Structurally we've escaped the oppressive gender roles of the near-past but it's still very much embedded within us socially, culturally and even biologically. A vast proportion of women still want men who fit the classical masculine ideal. Implicit power dynamics also exist in every arena. People like you and I disdain them, and for good reason, but you can't deny the choices and experiences of others. Many women want a man that can look up to, just check out PurplePillDebate or RedPillWomen. I concede the latter is something of an aberration but considering it's amassed enough people to form an active subreddit suggests it's certainly not idiosyncratic). Moderate to large sized subreddits can generally be seen as icebergs, there are lot more people who aren't represented by the posters and subscribers.

It doesnt mean he has the right to decide that that as a general is what a woman needs, and thats the statement he made. It is sexism.

And it's your right to interpret it as such. He's simply acting on one paradigm and you another. If you deny that no woman wants to look up to her man, by your definition, that would make you sexist. It's possible he unconsciously omitted some. Generally when anyone makes a statement about men or women, they don't unequivocally mean ALL men or women. They just mean most. And he may very well be right, or he's wrong. We won't know until there's reliable statistical data on this, so until then he'll operate on his subjective experience, as we're all liable to do.

Admittedly his world-view is heavily skewed by an unlucky string of occurrences. More than likely however, in his current state, they may be the only kind of girls he can attract if he's offering nothing else. For me sexism, like racism, requires hostility and disdain or have a pernicious effect in the real-world. From his statement alone, I don't think he's exhibited any of the above. He may very well be a misogynist but the jury is still out on that decision.

I said some women like to be submissive, so no I didnt make the opposite statement, but women dont need a man to look up to, and some prefer to be dominant themself, or to be equal, list goes on. Hes projecting what someone did to him onto women as a general, its like a defective selfsabotaging defense mechanism. He got burned and thinks that justification enough to title all women as generally cheaters & untrustworthy. My dad sexually abused me as a lil girl & I still dont think men as a general are to blame for it, theres women who do the same to children. I dont blame a whole gender & got hurt far worse than being cheated on, I got betrayed in the most severe way there is. If I can tell that this doesnt mean all men are gonna fuck me over & if I in my young age after crashing nd burning in the first two romantic relationships figured out how healthy boundaries work, why cant they? Im sorry if it sounds conceited, but I got betrayed worse and I still am capable to say that is the individuals fault who did it, not an entire genders fault. Why cant they? Thats actually a genuine question. If you know why they cant see clear, enlighten me.

I never know what to say at times like this. Either it's trite and seems insincere or I turn into a maudlin mess. Regardless, I'm so sorry that happened to you. Truly. It enrages me to no end that the man who was supposed to protect you is the one you needed protection from.

Honestly? I don't know. I think we all have different constitutions, some are stronger than others. You're probably one of the strong ones. You were betrayed so viciously, but I imagine you found people who cared about you? Friends, lovers besides those who cheated on you? Correct me if I'm mistakenly presuming. Some incels...never get that. Not even the friends. They feel like aliens walking among a different species. Imagine if you never had that positive contact. If every day only served to reinforce the negative notions you previously held. That's what a lot of these men are competing with. Ultimately your struggle is far more severe, but the two can't be compared directly. Yours are intense traumas that require a long recovery period. Theirs is a never-ending state that only ends one way.

It doesn't pardon them from crimes (though the vast majority don't perpetrate any). It doesn't excuse misogyny, but it's comprehensible how they could have reached that end. Being hateful for a reason doesn't disqualify you from compassion. Retaliating with vitriol is just going to confirm rather than refute those beliefs. We need to be better, because we were afforded the chance to be.

Are you roused to anger when a Flat-Earther calls you ignorant or other names, specifically when you seek them out on their own spaces? You should treat the more incoherent incels in the same way.

I was made into a protector of others through my abuse, the people who were loyal to me and who gave me care and love, where those who from a young age on I shielded myself. As a child, I had nobody, but I had my wish to prevent this from happening to others, and I always put up a fight against my father, do you know about covert incest? This is what happened before he .. went on to actual sexual abuse. I virtually never had a childhood, so I always took responsibility over my own happiness knowing I cant depend on my father or my mother for ANYTHING, and my mother was victimized by my father too in emotional ways, she was suicidal and very scared of him, but instead of standing up for herself or changing her situation she hid, and I had to mend things for her with him. This made me generally from a young age, both independant and stand up for myself, but also confused me, I was stuck between fully depending on myself and rebelling against him, and between playing his ideal child-woman. Seeing this, happening around me in other children too, not just in girls like me, but also in boys who got abused in similar ways by their mothers. I didnt actually have anyone caring for me, I cared about others based on that I acted as the protector I wish I had had. When I saw the little boy who was 10 back then, as was I too back then, turn very devoid of empathy, I was there to pull him back from that, I protected people who were about to commit suicide, I protected my cousin who was bullied for being gay so severely he was about to shoot up his school, I stopped him and held him inside my arms while he cried and put his weapon down, and I made him promise me to be stronger than his bullies and not to let them ruin his life, I held him many times while he cried, and he outgrew them, he managed! He became stronger, he found healthier ways for his anger, for his sadness. I probably, as you say, had people who care about me, but only because I cared about them first. I build a social-circle in which we all could be ourself, we mostly were that - abused kids, kids who werent toally socially acceptable, but atleast we had us. This didnt always end well, because some people develop intense obsession with me, which turns into a similar cage like my father tried to put me into, it is how I learned to cut people out, just how I left my father. Because I too learned that always protecting people isnt the smartest thing to do, but it is how I back then didnt become isolated, but to learn how healthy boundaries work you need to get out there, they seem to not do that. And believe me because of my childhood and that I was taught only the wrong things about relationships I got burned many, many times, I am sure the people I was with, we abused each other equally sometimes, but it is a learning process. Incels they seem to have given up before even trying, and its sad, and then I see some of them spread such hateful and simply wrong mysognistic bullshit and it makes me so confused and angry. They wont ever get someone to care and love about them if they arent willing to risk getting hurt. I know its probably not good that esp. the Incels somehow feel more personal to me, but it simply is that way, I genuinly care for the most part as laughable as it might sound, I do empathize in general, but then the insults, and the sexism starts and obviously for my own mental wellbeing my empathy locks those incels speficially out. Maybe it is even wrong of me to care about them, you know? It is not wanted, I think. Maybe my mistake is caring in the first place about something that doesnt need to concern me.

Im sorry for venting, I didnt even know I had that build up. Im sorry if I appear pathetic right now. Actually, thank you for this conversation regardless of what you think now. I do agree with you for the most part. I am curious about you now honestly, too. How did you reach your conclusions about Incels in general? How did you stumble upon them?

Hey, deadlinetoday, just a quick heads-up:
independant is actually spelled independent. You can remember it by ends with -ent.
Have a nice day!

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You shouldn't be apologizing, I should be thanking you. It's something so tender and personal, so I deeply appreciate you reflecting on and imparting me with your story. Your experience sounds so fascinating and yet haunting, like a Greek tragedy come to life. Sometimes you forget just how dark this world can get. I hate that you had to go through but I love that you were so strong. People overuse this word to the point it's become quite trite but you are quite literally the quintessence of strength. Pathetic? Not even close. It's pathetic in the same way the Spartan last stand could be called pathetic. You're a fucking warrior. I'm so relieved you got through it, so proud that you helped and cared for others, angry and sorrowful that it's happening to other people right now.

Honestly, I understand it. The shutting-off of empathy is something I consciously practice when I deem a person unworthy of it. Mainly it's when they're attacking me virulently and I have to strike back without pulling my punches. It's a temporary state for sure, but I think some level is disdain is necessary to prevent the insults of others to keep from landing. After hearing your story, I'm in no position to criticize or take fault with your moral character. If you had flaws, I'd understand how they may have come about. I would implore you to change them for definite, and help you with that process if we knew each other in real-life (admittedly I somehow feel closer to you after learning your past).

The one thing I'll say about your strength is that it can blind. You're so strong you might wonder how other people can be so weak. I was once weak and then I became strong. I disdain weakness so much and sometimes I forget to be sensitive to those that are, through no fault of their own. You've been strong your whole life, so it might be harder to reign in those emotions.

I reached my conclusions by spending time amongst them. I found them through a stray mention of this subreddit on another, with people claiming they were crazy rapists and shit. I came here to see for myself and while I was initially taken aback, I realized it was a sincere lamentation of a wrong done to them by society. In your case, your father was your abuser. In theirs, it was the rest of the world. Suicide is so alluring to incels because to many, it's the only way "out" of their suffering. You never lost sight of the bigger picture, you knew your father was the enemy and the villain. What if it was everyone? I'm in no way comparing the severity of your respective plights, I'm just highlighting certain structural differences that could lead to divergent paths in life, which obviously turned out to be the case.

I found the humour, when it isn't misogynistic, to be absolutely brilliant. It's true what they say, those who suffered the most make for the funniest of people. They often turn that suffering into something precious, and humour is often the result. Their jokes were so wicked and irreverent, that you'd never find them elsewhere. Nothing is "holy" on this subforum, excepting perhaps the ironic veneration of St.BlackOps2cel. I also found so many incels who are normal guys. Many don't hate women. The ones that do don't believe they should be raped, murdered or whatever. It's a low bar but I'm simply pointing out the discrepancy in the narrative people try to peddle. The vast majority of incels are non-violent, most just want to be loved, and most tragically of all, I think they "hate" women as a coping mechanism. They hate them because they can never be loved by them. It's a way of disparaging something you desire but can never obtain. If it's worthless, it's easier to get on without it. Twisted but true. Overall, I find incels to be walking tragedies. Truecels are not only barred from romance, their appearance actively prevents them from making friends and leads to bullying. Their suffering comes from everyone and everywhere, and they never see otherwise. To them, everyone is the enemy. It's all they've ever known.

I fit the technical definition of an 'incel', as I've yet to have sex or a romantic relationship, but I don't identify as one. I was never bullied and I'm firm in the belief I can achieve both of those ends with certain changes. Even if I can't, I won't define myself or life by the absence of something. The story of mankind is a tapestry of suffering, to expect anything more than that is both unreasonable and naive. If you want anything more than that, you have to fight for it with the knowledge that you can lose.

The world isnt particulary kind to survivors of sexual abuse esp. if its done by your own father, it is something that happens very frequently, and is just as frequently dismissed and erased because it is a ugly truth society does not want to see. The world bullies you, but only if you let it. I disagree, my father isnt the villain, its never that black & white, what he did I will never forgive, and when I cut him out of my life I did so for good, and have since years not allowed him close to me again, but I know where it comes from. He isnt total evil. Sadly, its never this clear. I have a hard time putting people into boxes of evil & good, most of the time it feels like these concepts just dont apply to reality. I operate basically under the concept of non-threatening & harmful. My father was severely abused in his own childhood, I shouldnt know this, but I do cuz covert incest. He was beaten up and punished and shamed a lot, he was neglected, he had a sexual relation to his little sister when he hit puberty - it was consensual, it was experimental, their ages werent far apart. He got "seduced" by an older woman when he was in puberty himself, he calls it seduced, I call it groomed & raped. Not to mention that while my father sure harmed me, he also encouraged my strength, only because he admired it, even when I stood up against him, bumped into his ego, and he threatened to beat the shit out of me or talked about how I would deserve to be punished for not respecting him, or when he shoved me to the ground and stepped on my hair that one time - and I told him to go ahead and beat me up, but so that I would be covered in bruises & could tell everbody about it and show the world what a miserable asshole he is. And midst argument he backed down and looked at me in awe and went "Wow, for such a small little girl you sure think fast. How did I create someone so smart and strong? My daughter is.. the best." Honestly, he was a huge fucking narcisisst and he probably only enjoyed thinking of himself as being the father of such a brave little girl, and in this he allowed that to override even his own bruised ego, until he asked me "What do I need to change? How can I make you love me how I love you?" But he also told me to look out for myself, he didnt teach me good values, but atleast he wanted me to be safe.. well, outside of him, doubt he ever saw himself as a threat to me even if he clearly was, or maybe he realized he was, and tried to hold back, I think he actually tried to hold back a lot - which is why until a final escalation the sexual abuse always was very subtle (I left him when the sexual abuse escalated.) , and the physical instances were rare and he in time learned to distance himself when he felt his ego got hurt. He told me to be self-serving and to not give a fuck about others, and when in spite I started to care a whole lot about others, it fucked him up. What im trying to convey, its blurry, whats good & whats bad, its hella blurry. He supported me a lot in some regards, hes done a lot of good for me as well, he supported my thirst for knowledge and constantly bought me books, he realized partially what he felt for me was abnormal & felt ashamed for it, my therapist who also back then talked with him said my father def. has npd & is most likely a psychopath. Psychopaths do twists those lines. But had my father seriously wanted to make it impossible for me to escape him, and if it had not been him feeling and acting on feeling, had he seriously wanted to put me through hell, he would have started with breaking my ego from day one and isolating me. He didnt, in fact I am sure in many ways he made my ego rather big. He did many, very fucked up things, he encouraged me manipulating others & he praised me for tricking others, he showed me psychological horror movies as young as when I was 6 & I had no scare reaction to any of the gorey and violent imagery at all, I felt curiousity - he saw this and felt we were similar, - he hurt me sexually that one day when everything escalated & before that he frequently molested me and tried to blurr the lines (he tried to seduce me, he wanted me to consent to it, obv a child cannot consent. And I fucking rejected him each time.) he watched me masturbate as a child A LOT, he desired me in a way that just isnt okay, it was love, as much as he was capable of, honestly, it was more love than he ever felt for anybody else on this planet, hes not capable to feel genuine emotional connections, but for his little sister, and for me, he does, somewhat. It is a harmful kind of love, of course. It is a kind of love def. not suited for a child, not for his own daughter. It is still.. somehow, love. Not a kind I will ever accept, something that makes me reject him, something that made me discard him and leave him many years ago. But hes still not the "villain" or "evil". He did however, refuse to take responsibility for his own actions, and let his own trauma, or the denial of accepting that he too has traumata, make him totally cheat any sense of guilt he might have had. It is not acceptable in my eyes, people should take responsibility for their actions, and some actions can never be forgiven. I would argue, that while def. dangerous and toxic, my father is a "coward" rather than "evil", or what else would you call a person who only can allow a emotional connection to people that are born with the same blood as him and therefore are born with "love" for him? What I didnt lose sight of, is that I knew I deserved better, if the decision was between pleasing him and pleasing myself, I choose myself.

The world isnt anybodys enemy, not even that of Incels. They might have made fucked up experiences, but they still could be happy if they fought for it. The world certainly isnt fair, but its not impossible to win.
I think more, Incels are constantly stuck in the Hedgehog Dilemma, though that concept is appliable to most relations in general.

I agree, on the other things you said, some things Incels post here.. are totally delightful. A lot of the stuff did make me laugh too, its enjoyable sometimes. I wish they would cheer each other up more and encourage each other to do better, rather than dragging each other down though. I do believe some Incels might def. be a threat though, and they push each other into it, too. They might be their own worst enemies. I agree, again, their hatred for women def. seems like a misguided defense-mechanism to me, but that way they are robbing themself of the chance of it ever changing, they make themself lonely through giving up like that. They rob themself of any twist of fate the world might have in store for them, rob themself of any possible luck and romance, of friendship even that could develop their social skills, cuz not all Incels lack them, but a lot really seem to do. & Romance def, wouldnt be the cure. A proper support network, friends, would probably do a lot of good for them already. The thing that also bothers me, the ones who internalized all this women-hating crap, even if they managed to get into a relationship, they would probably end up controlling & abusive towards their gf, both hurting her, and sabotaging themself out of the luck they just found. I mean they do program themself to truly believe in this shit. Maybe some arent that way, and maybe some honestly just parade that to get the attention they otherwise wouldnt get, I dont know.

I am glad that you believe in yourself though, you really should. And honestly, life is so full of suprises, I dont doubt youre gonna find love. It makes me happy to read though, that you also see that theres more to life and finding fullfillment in life than just sex and romantic stuff. Theres so much to be curious about in life, outside of just that. So, you basically, well you dont identify as an incel, but you do relate to a degree? Its fascinating to me to find someone else who also "shuts" individuals out from said empathy if they appear to be not worthy of it, or as threat. At this point, if we want to keep talking we might wanna use the chat? I am genuinly curious about you now, this talk isnt something that happens a lot, you know. And I feel a little bad for having talked.. so much about myself. Its all backwards, I might delete my posts later since obv they are on a open plattform, but really they were for you as soon as it got more private. Thinking about how much you flattered me, my sympathy might just be based on a ego rush, but I like to think that I am genuinly curious about you and therefore want to know more about you too.

Hey, deadlinetoday, just a quick heads-up:
curiousity is actually spelled curiosity. You can remember it by -os- in the middle.
Have a nice day!

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Hearing it laid out like that makes it so uncomfortably real. That quote your father said about you was bone-chilling. More and more I'm in awe of you. Your tragedy is hauntingly beautiful, if only for your perseverance and the woman you blossomed into in the dead of winter. I don't think you're a narcissist and if you were I wouldn't blame you. I'm equally intrigued by you, if not more so. I think we should take this to private chat, it certainly became more private than either of us was expecting. I feel bad leaving such a scant reply to such a comprehensive answer but I agree with all of it. Your relations with your father, we can talk through that in PMs if you'd like, or we can avoid it. I don't know how you feel about re-visiting those memories and I don't want you to make you uncomfortable or feel pain. I don't think I'm very interesting, especially alongside you. I'm just an old man who's lived little. Still, I won't turn down a chance to talk to someone who I'm so captivated by.

Women don't respect bad looking guys.

Women don't respect weak guys.

A bad looking guy = a weak guy. You are your looks. See okcupid experiment.

Mentally strong guys even if they're ugly can have hot women.

Go look at Henry Kissinger.

You're giving an example of a famous person? Bad example. Some mentally strong and mostly abusive men can have a gl gf, but they are a small minority

Nah.

Pretty much all mentally strong men have a girlfriend. Even if they're abusive.

There's no such thing as mentally strong. I don't know why you keep believing in these mainstream fairytales. It's not even measurable or visible. It's a construction and people keep believing in these made up words.

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okcupid experiment

I hate when people cite online dating as proof people only care about looks.

Online dating is 100% based on looks, because there's nothing else. Anyone can say whatever they want on their profile, therefore none of it really means anything, so of course they're going to go for the more attractive people. Plus a lot of people on dating sites/apps are just there to hook up. No one cares about your personality in a one night stand.

Like, okay, say you're buying a dog online. All of the descriptions say the exact same shit "well trained, good with kids, 2 years old" etc. In this situation, assuming money doesn't matter here, you're definitely going to pick the dog you like the look of most.

But, if you're at a shelter, this isn't the case. Because that same dog might be off sitting in a corner somewhere or snarling at you, while some other uglier dog has been following you around and trying to play with you all day.

IRL dating is like that. Once you get to know someone, their looks don't matter nearly as much. Like, try to rate all of your closest friends and family members on a scale of physical attractiveness. IDK if you'll be able to, but I can't. Because their personalities shape how I perceive them so much that it ends up being a scale of who I like the most.

U right

certain people are incel despite being good people. Some are incel because they're just as ugly on the inside as they are on the outside.

Why would any mentally sane woman want a relationship with someone like that? Answer: they wouldnt.

That’s dumb. Find a girl who’s obsessed with you. I dated this Asian nerd who dressed conservatively, wasn’t into sex (but gave me her virginity and rode me because she knew it was the social norm), and literally spent every moment trying to make me feel good. She’d buy me food, give me 1-2 handjobs a day, fuck me, give me cards and weird shit all the time. I didn’t even like her, I just thought she was hot (she was... 32C cup, skinny, did squats, and had a nice Vietnam look to her). This botch texted me every ten minutes until I replied or told her I was going to bed. She was literally the most loyal and perfect girlfriend. She caught me cheating and had to break up with me. She was part of the 1% of non slutty bitches.

This reeks of fantasy but if ur not lying ur really fucking dumb lol.

Fantasy lol? Nah, just dumb. I was gaining weight and losing hair and felt insecure at the time so I cheated on her. Now I’ve finally got the weight back off but I’m balding and no longer as attractive as I was, never will be. Makes me wanna die every day.

"Just date bro"

Just be a chad bro

Cool meme bro, but I’m clearly referring to “if” they got a girlfriend... which is literally what the OP is about............. maybe learn to read? All I was saying was that if we’re talking hypotheticals, then hypothetically pick a girlfriend who’s still a virgin and isn’t a slutbag.

Lol at incels, they get so confused that they post irrelevant responses and completely forget the entire context of a thread within seconds. Just lmao.

Yeah, what with the constant cuck paranoia, and the fact that girlfriends often get angry with socially awkward men, I dunno why the incels here think they'd be happy in a relationship

I'd be happy with euthanasia

No incel should date when they have the smv of a wet sponge = guaranteed cuckoldry

You must know this sub is ruining your mind if you realize that you'd still be miserable and insecure with a girlfriend

Lol so men aren't miserable and insecure with a gf?

They are, I never said incel culture creates the mental issues, only that they make them much worse, not to mention, it's a cycle, feeding into incel culture is one of the easiest ways to remain an incel, which sucks considering most incels are likely just late bloomers (pretty sure the average age of an incel is just 22-23).

Honestly, yes. Unless I was like 38 or something, then I would have permanent clout here

I'm 34 going on 35. Never had a gf. Never missed a girl. Not even joking.

I gave up around 27-28. Some things are just not meant to be for certain people. Like I was never meant to be an NFL QB, so I will never get to experience the semblance of love from a woman (because let's face it, men are disposable utilities).

Holy fuck

I am 20, not to discredit my incel status, but I hit puberty 10 years ago and am through my 2nd year in college, no projectory towards having either a robust romantic or social life, which is why I am here. Not to be mean, but I really hope I do not end up like you (sorry man). I would go bonkers at the point and probably have long gotten a castration

It's OK man, I get it. You don't want to end up like me in the same way that I don't want to end up like a quadriplegic.

You're still in late bloomer stage.

Dude, you're 20. Get off this sub.

When you hit 28, 29, 30 come back. But you're 20 fucking years old. Do you know how many people are virgins at 20?

I had a gf from 15-19 (was v lucky) after than thanks to some mental issues I was celibite for about 3 years. Now I do v well for myself.

There's still hope for you, don't let the toxic people on here tell you otherwise. (Lots of decent people on here, but overall this sub is extremely unhelpful and toxic for people like you, and bitter middle-aged guys will do whatever they can to make you believe there's no hope for you)

Holy fuck shut up, how is your comment original or helpful in any way?

It's helpful cos I'm telling him to get off this sub at 20.

You can't be incel at 20, you're just young. That's it.

This sub is funny though

And a little bit terrifying

I mean ... I guess you could say that. Still no where as terrifying as incels.me

Nah or the old /r/incels. Shit was a fucking cesspool.

Thought you were on here turning into one of them when I first replied, guess not so good on ya

I am an associate but not member at this point of time

Alright. Just don't worry bout being a Virgin at 20.

He's obviously a complete outlier but my mate from.my football team was a virgin til the end of his 2nd year of uni, now (2 years later) he's fucked like 75 people.

Don't expect to be like that - and I don't recommend it anyway, sounds like something girls and losers say but ONS's are genuinely shit without that "connection", but it's definitely not too late for you.

Don't let the worst people on this sub let you think otherwise

What if you are a virgin at 20 with very little friends and very little in the way of social connections. My biggest connections this year by far are in lab groups where we have to work outside class, even then, we just talk about the project

I had fuck all uni friends til a joined American football and boxing.

Doesn't.matter if you're shit, join a sport. Most unis have "sports night" which are easy asf to get laid. Youll have shit loads of teammates who will see you as a friend before they even know you.

One kid on my football team would run into my pad and it genuinely felt like someone was lightly blowing on me, then he'd fall back on the floor. Never felt anything so weak, but he kept coming back week after week.

And you know what? Noone gave a fuck, and just rated him for turning up. He made friends, he even got laid sometimes and turned up to training with big hickies on his neck. Literally must've weighed about 40kg at 5"4ish.

That's all you need to do. Find something (preferably sport related. So many people say it doesn't matter what society you join, but the guys in magic:the gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh soc dont get laid funnily enough), and and stick to it.

If you want to sleep with magic:the gathering girls that might be the way to go, but it's definitely not the route I'd take.

Find a sport before it's too late (you're still at uni and I'm assuming not disabled, so it's not too late) Stick to it. It will change your life

I don't know if I'm buying it. I had to quit high basketball after a short stint because of major patellar ligament problems, came back a few years later and it still hurted. Also probably ridiculously out of shape and stiff. Used to be able to dunk at the end of 9th grade , probably could barely the floor now. Also were you just playing on your club team? I thought it would be a little more competitive than some scrawny midget. I'm not aware of sports nights either... but I'll take your word for it

I think we’re experiencing record high levels of brigaders

didn't have sex for 3 years "I totally understand incels"

Fuck off, as a 20 year old virgin I am literally in the bottom 10% of men. Women see men in the bottom 10% as genetic trash, unlovable filth.

I understand the mentality of thinking you're hopeless cos I'd slept with one girl at 16, and one girl at 22, with a 3 year celibacy gap. And I thought I'd never escape it. Now I'm 24 and fucked about 30, things change.

Assuming you're American, the age of consent is 18, so you've had 2 years. Grow the fuck up.

Anyway, my comment wasn't directed at your or anyone like you. It was for the 20 year olds (like the guy I was replying to) who aren't 100% hate and 0% redeeming qualities.

Best of luck to you working through your serious fucking issues that go well beyond your looks

I understand the mentality

slept with one girl at 16

My fucking sides holy shit this is the highest quality bait I've seen in a while. 10/10 for effort to actually post all those comments to lead up to this, would definitely get trolled by again.

Never said I was an incel, just said I can understand thinking you're inadequate, never gonna be loved etc. Cos, yaknow, it was mixed with a bit of casual clinically diagnosed depression and anxiety. But hey cos I got laid at 16 my life must've been amazing right, since that solves everything! When in fact my life was complete shit and I was suicidal until a little over a year ago.

But seriously bro, enjoy living your entire life alone, hateful.and fucking miserable. Just judging from the 2 posts I've seen today that's all you're ever gonna have.

Whereas the guy I was actually talking to before you butted in has hope - he isn't a sub human piece of shit. He spoke to me like a person, asked me for advice on improving his social life, and said he doesn't want to end up so.many of you. I don't think I can help everyone, my situation is completely different to most of you, but a discussion can help some people.

And I really don't like to belittle people, but I think you're a fucking asshole and exactly the reason so many people hate this sub, so:

Enjoy your fucking shitty life, I'll enjoy my awesome one where I have friends who love me (guys and girls, "roasties" can be friends too!), have a sick degree with awesome career options, and I get laid. Oh and I'm a 6'4 boxer/American footballer since height is also so important to you lot.

While you have....what exactly?

So call me a cuck cos I get laid, call me a troll for trying to talk to someone about my 3 years of involuntary celibacy (guess what incel is short for?). But just know I win at life and you do not.

Peace ✌️

Imagine being this triggered by low iq bait, why do Normans make this so easy lol.

Didn't read your wall of text BTW, nobody cares about your story

Ah you chose option B, nice job

Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Sheesh, college is the prime time for many.

Didn’t even come on here until recently, so first 2 years definitely not prime time for me , and nothing has changed. Calling it prime time would only confirm reason to be on here

College is where many people meet one another, but it is impossible if you are always on reddit. Go talk to people and be social. College is prime time for meeting lifelong connections, but only if you are looking.

If you say something about yourself, it most likely ends up becoming true because you don't want it bad enough for you- so don't convince yourself of anything too harsh. The placebo effect is real and honestly mind games matter.

Point was I’ve spent 5 college terms without reddit and 1 with, nothing changed

I am 30 now. I won't be 38.

True. If I had a loving gf I would never visit this sub because I wouldn't be able to relate.

Of course, but it won't happen for me, I am beyond salvation

Yes

Absolutely.

Follow me to incel land my fellows

Hell no. You can't regurgitate the blackpill. It's based on objective reality.

I will never trust a bitch. I will make sure to treat her like as much shit as possible so she will stay with me and keep fucking me because apparently they like that

and this is why you'll always be unhappy

They like that only when chad does it

she will take half your money and your kids.

You know, if you actually helped at a homeless shelter, you might meet a woman and/or gain appreciation for bigger problems

how do you get any motivation to help anyone?

No man, he is saying that you need to volunteer at a homeless shelter specifically to meet desperate adult women. If you are not a total bastard it should work. Just don't be creepy and you're in.

implying homeless aren't incels

I'd still come here for the memes

I have a gf and had previous gfs and ONS, FWBs you name it, but after swallowing the BlackPill you can't go Bluepill again, no matter how much sex you get. The blackpill is like 70% true, if you know how to filter the truth from the lies you can use it for your advantage

The blackpill is like 70% true

More like 90%, redpill 9% and 1% are exceptions

I think the red pill is true for the most part, it’s just that the copers exaggerate how much it actually matters. You first have to pass the looks threshold before you can show any of your “game”.

Exactly

Loool, why dont you ugly cunts go get a fat chick? If you're in the US there's tonnes, quite literally

Nah mate, the real big ones. Get laid first, doesn't matter what, then go from there

Do you cold approach

it's a zombie PUA risen from 2007

What? I was asking if he just sees obese people out in the wild and asks them out. Just curious about what he's doing

180 isn’t really fat.

180.0 lbs = 81.65 kilogram

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Fat chicks feel entitled to high status men

Lol, go to walmart man. Lots of fatass couples there alongside some mismatched ones.

fat ass-couples

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I go to walmart all the time. It's where I do a lot of my food shopping. I don't see dating-age couples where both partners are fat, but I do see plenty with a fat woman and a thin man.

A fat man in any couple at all is about as common a sight as a three-eyed frog.

What state do you live in? Go to south carolina and you'll see.

I used to work as a busboy at a buffet and saw plenty of not good looking fat couples doing their thing together.

Hah, "just move to the other side of the continent, brah." I wouldn't be surprised if most of those "dates" were foodie calls.

If thinking that makes you feel better...

I'm just dumbfounded by this sub thinking that every chick only gets with super high level men. Most people i've seen in relationships are comparable in looks.

Why would I make up a more grim situation to feel better?

Some people find it easier to cope with the idea that women only go for high status dudes.

Why? Because it might be an easier pill to swallow than the notion that girls of similar looks want nothing to do with you.

One is a societal issue that's hard to beat. The other explanation means it's all on you.

How are those two things mutually exclusive? If women only want high status men, then of course they won't be interested in men of equal or lesser status. Pay attention.

No, the second one just means that what you offer outside of your looks is what makes you undesirable.

It's not a hard concept to grasp.

I'm talking about what you actually said, not what you tried to say.

Yeah, my bad. I could've been a little clearer with the wording.

So if you're good looking then why do you think you keep striking out?

Who said I was good looking?

Last part of that comment was supposed to be in a different comment, my bad, I don't reddit often.

Are you ugly though

I wouldn't be here if I wasn't ugly.

That sucks man. Idk, maybe you don't encounter looksmatch couples, but I've seen plenty.

Assuming you're not a piece of shit, i'm gonna assume you'll figure it out.

I’m fat. My boyfriend is fat too. And we’re happy together.

Not having sex if there is no attraction. Fat chicks don't move the needle.

"Involantary Celibacy" yes of course thats true

Yup I’ll delete this account and fuck right off if I ever get a gf.

You can sell karma?

this, wtf?

Probably means donating the amount of karma in dollar, so 1400 karma = $1400 donation.

They're talking about Post Karma, not Comment Karma.

St Blops2cel is my shepherd, I shall not want a roastie.

Because having my first girlfriend at the age of 30 would just barely, BARELY elevate my status about the users of r/braincels, I guess that means I would have to come back here to bully you guys

Just LOL if you believe that incel communities create incels.

If we're talking about incels as a subculture, then yeah of course they do. They lure lonely and frustrated young men as a space to vent and cope and turn them onto the blackpill worldview that infests incel communities.

Men wouldn't be lonely if they were attractive and thus pursued. They are lonely and frustrated because they aren't. This sub doesn't even factor into the issue. It's middle-school logic ffs.

This sub, but really more the incel subculture as a whole beyond just this place, takes advantage of that loneliness to "blackpill" these frustrated young men.

And that does nothing to make their situation any better or worse. In fact, telling them to see escorts is the closest thing to help they will ever get.

In fact, telling them to see escorts is the closest thing to help they will ever get.

I've felt less sad. Granted, I had to pay but I haven't felt suicidal in a long time.

And that does nothing to make their situation any better or worse

I'd say exacerbating the issues of mentally ill people makes their lives worse

The vast majority of mentally ill people have been or are currently in relationships. Incels have not. Utterly irrelevant.

The vast majority of mentally ill people also never harm a soul, should the violent ones not get treatment, however? Not that you really give a fuck, though, this sub doesnt care about its members, that's why you're willing to see them die.

The ULTRA majority of incels never harm a soul either you fucking simpleton. You and yours domore toward steering incels toward violence or suicide than we ever will. Never had an incel tell me I made him wanna kill himself or others, but you fucks who CONSTANTLY have to irritate and attacl the people here are a different story. If you want to "help" the real incels here leave then in peace with their memes and go about your business. I can guarantee you idiots take this shit way more seriously than they do, and that type of idiocy is exactly why you irritate them.

Cya.

Good thing I also didn't say most incels are murderers, so you don't have to snap to the defense so fucking hard. My point was that incels desperately need some form of therapy. And, this sub is basically like an addictive drug, the people here don't realize that this sub is a major part of what's making them miserable and so keep coming here and making their mental issues worse with paranoia, hatred, and being told that they're worthless (and yes, incels constantly remind each other of their perceived worthlessness).

Also, you really should learn how to take a criticism and chill the fuck out, this ain't so deep that you need to immediately lapse into the victim complex the second someone says you're wrong

I guess It would be great if incels just left this sub and returned to the old days of rotting away alone instead of venting here no?

But wait who would make you feel better that you are above incels then?

Lmaoooo you mean how we tell young impressionable kids to get the fuck out of this subreddit because it's bad for them? You call that recruiting?

you mean how we tell young impressionable kids to get the fuck out of this subreddit because it's bad for them? You call that recruiting?

Lmaoooo you don't even really do that though! Whenever someone tries to leave or say they got a girlfriend, they get dogpiled with "She's gonna cheat on you with Chad and Tyrone, you'll be back!" This community has zero redeemable qualities, it's not even a healthy support group.

Women create incels.

Case in point, one of the reasons why this place is toxic.

Lmaoooo you don't even really do that though!

We do it regularly

Whenever someone tries to leave or say they got a girlfriend, they get dogpiled with "She's gonna cheat on you with Chad and Tyrone, you'll be back!"

LOL you've never been here before huh? We don't do that lol

This community has zero redeemable qualities, it's not even a healthy support group.

Well, when you make up this imagine up this nightmare of all of us on your own, of course we're gonna look bad lol

Case in point, one of the reasons why this place is toxic.

Why? Because you don't like that women created us? That makes us toxic?

Lmaoooo you don't even really do that though! Whenever someone tries to leave or say they got a girlfriend, they get dogpiled with "She's gonna cheat on you with Chad and Tyrone, you'll be back!"

So it sounds like you came in and saw two of those things, while ignoring those types of topics where genuine support is showed.

I've seen more users here telling young enough people to leave than not.

You came hear looking for what you wanted to see to confirm your bias.

You aren't looking for discussion. You just want to shame. Fuck you I guess.

I’d give this place up for genuine love with a woman. But my genetics have been screened out.

Well Im not an incel and I have a gf but I still hang around here..

The truecels would leave. And other truecels would want them to.

I have seen former incel and incel-ish friends of mine (I've been on an Asperger forum for 14 years, so I've known many) get into relationships with abusive/toxic women. I think incel men are targets for the type of women the chads are savvy enough to avoid.

This isn't something I've pulled off the top of my head - this is something I've observed for 15 years.

I work with a guy right now - he's 5.2/5.3 ish (hard to tell because he wears big shoes), chubby, soft faced, shy - and he's married to a (taller fatter) women who I think just bullies him. All I see is her yelling at him.

One day he was with his young kids and his wife came in with an angry face, and he smiled and tried to tell her what he and the kids had done, and she just stared snapping at him about how he hadn't done enough chores that day. He follows her around with his head down scared. I know that's just one incident, but she's always like that. He's constantly trying to please her and looking hopeful that he's done enough, and she's always irritated and yelling about some way he let her down.

Even right now it's not just him - there are 2 other shy/beta men in my life with wives/partners like this who I worry about.

Fuck that's grim.

This is a very sad black pill. Thanks for pointing it out here. I felt the same way. I don't know what's terrible, living like an incel or being hated by your own wife for the rest of your life while working hard to provide for her and the kids.

Can confirm. Starts out with showing you some attention. Then they are going to 'help' you improve yourself. Which is actually destroying what little is left of your confidence. She'll start subtly letting you know how happy you should be to have them, after all no one else wants you.... Pretty soon you'll be doing anything to get that confirmation and at the same time she will not want to sleep with you because you're either a push over or she's angry you did not abide her will.

Or maybe not you, but I definitely did. Probably wasn't a loving gf so maybe that doesn't count.

Chubby soft faced shy

Damn reading these words hurt.

There was recently a thread on /r/suomi, the local subreddit for Finland, where a magazine was searching for incels to interview. With the discussion it emerged that the subreddit definitely has readers that have never been intimate with another person and felt incapable of ever losing their virginity. You could describe them as involuntarily celibate, but that's where the similarities end. Most of them blamed a lack of social skills or their emotional state for that fact. The way these men deal with their lack of a romantic or sex life just is very divergent from how incels appear to deal with it.

Also OP, don't ever feel like you need to pre-emptively tell people about how you are charitable, especially if already discussing charity. I know people judge others for how charitable they are, but similar individuals tend to only give resources to charity to keep appearances. You owe such people nothing.

Most of them blamed a lack of social skills or their emotional state for that fact. The way these men deal with their lack of a romantic or sex life just is very divergent from how incels appear to deal with it.

I think that it’s a very toxic to cope by blaming yourself for things that are out of your control. I mean if those men truly had subpar social skills and mental problems and it’s the thing that’s holding them back that’s fine, although these problems probably stem from being below average looking. But if you have made efforts to improve yourself, have average to above average social skills, no mental problems, groom yourself to the best of your ability but your facial bone structure, height or race are holding you back it’s not healthy to blame yourself.

From what I gathered, all were native Finns in Finland so race would not be a factor, and while there are height preferences like everywhere, it hasn't stopped short and average looking men from finding committed relationships. The average male height in Finland is to my knowledge above that of both the world and US average.

Blamed may have been a poor choice of word from me. These guys seemed to have gotten to terms with the fact that intimacy may lack from their lives. Lack of social skills and mental issues were just given as reasons why it's not happened. Also, I think that getting to terms with it and putting such thoughts on the backburner can actually be a good thing.

Interacting with women while under no pressure can help your prospects massively. I actually wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys might end up meeting someone without expecting to, if they get dragged out to social gatherings for example.

Ït's not about a gf, it's about looks. You don't need a gf if you look good. A happy man with good looks doesn't need anything. You need to be independent, and only looks can give you that. If you don't have it, you'll be dependent on the love of a gf, who will abuse you and mentally destroy you sooner or later.

Donating and volunteering is cuckold. Have fun getting a fat incel. Going to the gym and having discipline frees you from the power roasties have over you. If I ever got a girl to fuck guaranteed I would still hate her and all roasties. One exception doesn't excuse the rule.

I see we are starting to talk in hypotheticals...

I dunno about you lot but I'm not here because i want a girlfriend, i honestly cant stand women to be honest. I just need sex and a woman's body. Hookers would suit me if they weren't expensive. So I'm on here with you guys haha.

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No, not reallly tbh

I would also have no reason to be here if I simply wasn't still a virgin at age 34 with a 100% rejection rate on dating sites. Also gay, you see most fagtards won't date brown people, not even other brown fagtards.

I would run faster than light if a have a legit chance at anything remotely resembling a functioning relationship with a foid.

I would ditch it for a better quality forum.

Since loving relationships don't really exist, this will never be an option.

At the end every single online plattform will become a huge circle-jerk. Especially if there's no enemy trying challenge the prevalent ideology.

have you tried lookism.net?

If that girl wouldn't laugh with me at other stupid bithes, i'd stay here

No shit??????????

Of course I would leave this fucking shithole LOL, and if you wouldn't you're a fakecel faggot who deserves to be stretched on the breaking wheel.

incels exist without this sub.

I've also seen a (16ish year old) guy post about finding this sub, suddenly turning really toxic and hateful towards women thanks to all the posts here, and deciding there was no hope for him, women are evil etc.

Then he realised that a HUGE number of 16 year olds are virgins, but YOU PEOPLE led him to believe he was "no hope" and should commit suicide etc. He left the sub and was extremely thankful it wasn't too late for him to realise.

Thats the thing. Incels exist without this sub, obviously. A place to complain, get support etc would be useful.

but the "Advice" given out by people on here is sickening, it's brainwashing, and further toxicity/hate etc is created by the sub. so incels arent created here, a certain breed of incel is, and those are the people that everyone hates on.

I've also seen a (16ish year old) guy post about finding this sub, suddenly turning really toxic and hateful towards women thanks to all the posts here, and deciding there was no hope for him, women are evil etc.

Then he realised that a HUGE number of 16 year olds are virgins, but YOU PEOPLE led him to believe he was "no hope" and should commit suicide etc. He left the sub and was extremely thankful it wasn't too late for him to realise.

Because that totally happened and incels aren't always quick to tell people below a certain age to get the fuck out for their own good.

A place to complain

Yeah that's what this place is.

a certain breed of incel is, and those are the people that everyone hates on.

And yet non-hateful users like shadowcat221, sharkb8master, destiny-draw and all the others get shat on by IT folk pretty much every day. Funny how that works.

It happened, his post history backed up his story. it was the second time I'd ever heard of this sub (after some guy on my football team showed me. Yes, "jocks and chads" do use reddit despite what I've been told on here a hundred times).

And I've said over and over again: Lots of decent people on here, im sure lots of people tell young guys to get out. IncelTears is sometimes funny and sometimes outright bullying, depending on the kinda comment they're screenshotting.

And when I said a "certain breed of incel", i didnt mean everyone on here. But the ones with the loudest voice on here are fucking despicable sub-humans. I dont mean sub-human in the incel way (ugly), I mean they are less than human to me as they are such terrible, disgusting fucking "people".

Those are the guys that make everyone hate on incels, then people on subs like inceltears label all of you like that. And I guess some of them are just bullies that like to make fun of anyone who's different, idk

It happened, and his post history backed up his story.

Because people never bullshit on the internet.

It was the second time I'd ever heard of this sub (after some guy on my football team showed me /r/incels. Yes, "jocks and chads" do use reddit despite what I've been told on here a hundred times).

Good for you, I really don't fucking care. This sub isn't /r/incels, and any type of suicide encouragement is removed so your point is moot in that regard.

And I've said over and over again: Lots of decent people on here, im sure lots of people tell young guys to get out. IncelTears is sometimes funny and sometimes outright bullying, depending on the kinda comment they're screenshotting.

You people.

i didnt mean everyone on here.

YOU PEOPLE

Okay.

Those are the guys that make everyone hate on incels, then people on subs like inceltears label all of you like that.

And that is their lazyness showing since they'd rather judge a whole instead of the individuals, and is only a problem once they waltz in here and start shitting on everyone for the actions of a few, going to the point of defining all incels by the hateful bits and signal boosting that for the rest of reddit to gawk at.

If someone spends a good 8 months posting on incel subs just to later pretend he changed his mind, he's got much more serious issues than anyone on here.

That's 8 months of planning, spending time posting and making up stories, JUST to pretend he changed his mind and post some extremely reasonable stuff about how what he read on /r/incels was harmful to young people etc. Things which any sane person can see, and even you yourself admitted than young people are discouraged from staying on here.

Yeah I said "you people". I'm generalising this sub because even if direct suicide encouragement isn't allowed, I've seen it a lot of times and barely look at this sub. Also seen a lot of.other hateful shit. so wrote "you people" to save time when anyone who's not nitpicking knows what Im talking about the toxic hateful side. Poor choice of words maybe

And yeah it's their laziness. I never defended them.for it did I? I'm merely stating that's where it comes from. Just like I can easily see where the misogyny on here comes from, despite completely disagreeing with it.

When it was still /r/incels I woulda been completely on their side, this sub seems far.more moderate (although still pretty fucking shocking sometimes) so I don't think you should all be judged for it as a whole.

Poor choice of words maybe

Poor choice of overall opinion, absolutely.

Which part exactly?

And don't say "Whole post, Hurr durr I win cos you replied to my obvious troll you stupid cuck" (which is the response I get 98% of the time I reply to someone on here)

lmao at all the cucks who would leave this place and abandon the blackpill if they got laid.

fuck.

If you would leave this place no matter the circumstances, you are not blackpilled.

you can sell post karma??

well yes, they wouldn't be incels anymore so theres no need to be surrounded by all this negativity if you cant even relate to it

Well no shit incels have no lives so they spend most of their time on the internet.

Not so, I still wasted months of my life seeing myself as an incel after I got laid, I still browse Foreveralone now, my advise is to fix the crippling mental problems rather than focus on the getting laid part, I wish I did that.

"Why are you so black and white? Are you 12?" - Quote by you.

Yes you are, and your point is?

It's helpful cos I'm telling him to get off this sub at 20.

You can't be incel at 20, you're just young. That's it.

I think we’re experiencing record high levels of brigaders

The world isnt particulary kind to survivors of sexual abuse esp. if its done by your own father, it is something that happens very frequently, and is just as frequently dismissed and erased because it is a ugly truth society does not want to see. The world bullies you, but only if you let it. I disagree, my father isnt the villain, its never that black & white, what he did I will never forgive, and when I cut him out of my life I did so for good, and have since years not allowed him close to me again, but I know where it comes from. He isnt total evil. Sadly, its never this clear. I have a hard time putting people into boxes of evil & good, most of the time it feels like these concepts just dont apply to reality. I operate basically under the concept of non-threatening & harmful. My father was severely abused in his own childhood, I shouldnt know this, but I do cuz covert incest. He was beaten up and punished and shamed a lot, he was neglected, he had a sexual relation to his little sister when he hit puberty - it was consensual, it was experimental, their ages werent far apart. He got "seduced" by an older woman when he was in puberty himself, he calls it seduced, I call it groomed & raped. Not to mention that while my father sure harmed me, he also encouraged my strength, only because he admired it, even when I stood up against him, bumped into his ego, and he threatened to beat the shit out of me or talked about how I would deserve to be punished for not respecting him, or when he shoved me to the ground and stepped on my hair that one time - and I told him to go ahead and beat me up, but so that I would be covered in bruises & could tell everbody about it and show the world what a miserable asshole he is. And midst argument he backed down and looked at me in awe and went "Wow, for such a small little girl you sure think fast. How did I create someone so smart and strong? My daughter is.. the best." Honestly, he was a huge fucking narcisisst and he probably only enjoyed thinking of himself as being the father of such a brave little girl, and in this he allowed that to override even his own bruised ego, until he asked me "What do I need to change? How can I make you love me how I love you?" But he also told me to look out for myself, he didnt teach me good values, but atleast he wanted me to be safe.. well, outside of him, doubt he ever saw himself as a threat to me even if he clearly was, or maybe he realized he was, and tried to hold back, I think he actually tried to hold back a lot - which is why until a final escalation the sexual abuse always was very subtle (I left him when the sexual abuse escalated.) , and the physical instances were rare and he in time learned to distance himself when he felt his ego got hurt. He told me to be self-serving and to not give a fuck about others, and when in spite I started to care a whole lot about others, it fucked him up. What im trying to convey, its blurry, whats good & whats bad, its hella blurry. He supported me a lot in some regards, hes done a lot of good for me as well, he supported my thirst for knowledge and constantly bought me books, he realized partially what he felt for me was abnormal & felt ashamed for it, my therapist who also back then talked with him said my father def. has npd & is most likely a psychopath. Psychopaths do twists those lines. But had my father seriously wanted to make it impossible for me to escape him, and if it had not been him feeling and acting on feeling, had he seriously wanted to put me through hell, he would have started with breaking my ego from day one and isolating me. He didnt, in fact I am sure in many ways he made my ego rather big. He did many, very fucked up things, he encouraged me manipulating others & he praised me for tricking others, he showed me psychological horror movies as young as when I was 6 & I had no scare reaction to any of the gorey and violent imagery at all, I felt curiousity - he saw this and felt we were similar, - he hurt me sexually that one day when everything escalated & before that he frequently molested me and tried to blurr the lines (he tried to seduce me, he wanted me to consent to it, obv a child cannot consent. And I fucking rejected him each time.) he watched me masturbate as a child A LOT, he desired me in a way that just isnt okay, it was love, as much as he was capable of, honestly, it was more love than he ever felt for anybody else on this planet, hes not capable to feel genuine emotional connections, but for his little sister, and for me, he does, somewhat. It is a harmful kind of love, of course. It is a kind of love def. not suited for a child, not for his own daughter. It is still.. somehow, love. Not a kind I will ever accept, something that makes me reject him, something that made me discard him and leave him many years ago. But hes still not the "villain" or "evil". He did however, refuse to take responsibility for his own actions, and let his own trauma, or the denial of accepting that he too has traumata, make him totally cheat any sense of guilt he might have had. It is not acceptable in my eyes, people should take responsibility for their actions, and some actions can never be forgiven. I would argue, that while def. dangerous and toxic, my father is a "coward" rather than "evil", or what else would you call a person who only can allow a emotional connection to people that are born with the same blood as him and therefore are born with "love" for him? What I didnt lose sight of, is that I knew I deserved better, if the decision was between pleasing him and pleasing myself, I choose myself.

The world isnt anybodys enemy, not even that of Incels. They might have made fucked up experiences, but they still could be happy if they fought for it. The world certainly isnt fair, but its not impossible to win.
I think more, Incels are constantly stuck in the Hedgehog Dilemma, though that concept is appliable to most relations in general.

I agree, on the other things you said, some things Incels post here.. are totally delightful. A lot of the stuff did make me laugh too, its enjoyable sometimes. I wish they would cheer each other up more and encourage each other to do better, rather than dragging each other down though. I do believe some Incels might def. be a threat though, and they push each other into it, too. They might be their own worst enemies. I agree, again, their hatred for women def. seems like a misguided defense-mechanism to me, but that way they are robbing themself of the chance of it ever changing, they make themself lonely through giving up like that. They rob themself of any twist of fate the world might have in store for them, rob themself of any possible luck and romance, of friendship even that could develop their social skills, cuz not all Incels lack them, but a lot really seem to do. & Romance def, wouldnt be the cure. A proper support network, friends, would probably do a lot of good for them already. The thing that also bothers me, the ones who internalized all this women-hating crap, even if they managed to get into a relationship, they would probably end up controlling & abusive towards their gf, both hurting her, and sabotaging themself out of the luck they just found. I mean they do program themself to truly believe in this shit. Maybe some arent that way, and maybe some honestly just parade that to get the attention they otherwise wouldnt get, I dont know.

I am glad that you believe in yourself though, you really should. And honestly, life is so full of suprises, I dont doubt youre gonna find love. It makes me happy to read though, that you also see that theres more to life and finding fullfillment in life than just sex and romantic stuff. Theres so much to be curious about in life, outside of just that. So, you basically, well you dont identify as an incel, but you do relate to a degree? Its fascinating to me to find someone else who also "shuts" individuals out from said empathy if they appear to be not worthy of it, or as threat. At this point, if we want to keep talking we might wanna use the chat? I am genuinly curious about you now, this talk isnt something that happens a lot, you know. And I feel a little bad for having talked.. so much about myself. Its all backwards, I might delete my posts later since obv they are on a open plattform, but really they were for you as soon as it got more private. Thinking about how much you flattered me, my sympathy might just be based on a ego rush, but I like to think that I am genuinly curious about you and therefore want to know more about you too.

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