Heh all the feminists got that baby mama drama goin' on.

This is what they don't realize lol. If unimposing soyboys with no backbone suddenly started getting laid en masse, that's what guys would try to emulate.

High school bullying is mostly instigated by women. They reward the bullies with attention and intimacy. If they didn't reward this kind of behaviour, there would be no reason to do it.

No they do not. Bullying is multi-faceted so pretending there is one singular cause is quite ignorant.

It's not entirely caused by women, but they definitely play a role.

Toxic masculinity ya snitching to do with physique it’s about abusive misogynistic behaviour with a lot of angry men exhibit regardless of looks/physique

You have no idea about women's preferences. Stop imagining you do

Address the points then, instead of being this butthurt.

There are no points to address. Ignorance only

Nice repartee!

I am a pretty feminine man who has no problem getting along with women or getting laid. What's my secret?

You’re gay!

You’re gay!

6 foot, and yes, hetero or bi women, I mean I'd think that was fairly obvious. Although my current girlfriend is taller than I am.

I'm tall, it doesn't matter. Height doesn't fix autism

6’ point proven.

I’m not even close to 6’ and not a masculine man. Occasionally asked if I’m gay. I’m thin. Also, I Haven’t had a problem getting laid since I was 16. Gone through droughts like anybody but I’ve always been punching above my weight class and occasionally KO some.

My brother in law is 5' 6" weighs like 130 lbs and has no trouble getting laid. He's not particularly good looking either. He does have it going for him that he's not a little bitch though. That probably helps.

I got banned on MensLib for suggesting this exact same thing.

This is what they don't realize lol.

No, this is a misconception.

They do realize this, but they can't say it so they instaban, insult, or shout down.

They realize women's sexual choices create winners and losers and that those arbitrary, selfish, shallow choices have ripple effects on society and social groups, but they don't want to either lose that power, nor have it seen as it is. THAT is what "girl power" is.

This can not be stressed enough:

women act on plausible deniability

That's how women "get rejected" by looking at someone once. What, exactly, was rejected? What proposal was rejected? Women make men go through the motions so she can, at any point, pretend the situation isn't what "she wanted." It gives her a subversive control over social situations. That's why their insults are often veiled.

Women will only admit a selfish shallow truth if they can simultaneously insult you (same with numales and "normies" [there are no normies on reddit]).

This should be it's own post.

Then why do guys keep imitating the thick-rimmed glasses with a beard look? Are they all getting laid in secret?

It signals shared values and it also looks better than the alternative (weak chin, bad eye area).

Try Kirkland minoxidil, it does wonders to the beard

My chin is covered in acne scars thanks to my cucked genetics. Minoxidil ages the skin anyway.

Roacutan First then minoxidil

People everywhere get paid, some more often than others. Deal with it and stop whining

Thank you for your immense contribution to this thread.

"It's literally OVER for 6'4 Chads with hunter eyes and pronounced chins"

Attractivecels on suicide watch

I have nothing against women's sexual preferences but I've always found that part real hypocritical. What I do not understand is Feminists are suddenly silent on the issue when anyone points out that women are part of the problem too who perpetuate and reinforce these standards. In their books, it's bad to tell men to "toughen up" or "man up" whenever they feel down about their problems, that they should learn to love and accept themselves for who they are yet they tell incels the opposite. I honestly do not get it.

You should love and accept yourself. Except for when you have a destructive mindset and are being misogynistic and/or racist etc. Self-reflection is incredibly sexy and it's part of learning to love yourself. Look at yourself and at your flaws (something everyone has) and try to work on yourself for the sake of yourself. Not tolerating intolerance isn't being intolerant.

Women have never tolerated incels, and have discriminated against them since childhood. It’s in their nature to do so

I guess. I don't consider incels as "ugly people" because I know "ugly people" and they're doing well. They make up for their looks by being able to offer something else, which is being kind and gentle, or being fun to be around, being empathetic and smart.
I consider incels to be mostly rude, immature, un-self-reflecting, misogynistic etc. and usually, if people show that kind of behavior, others will have problems with them and will avoid them.
Not all "ugly" people are incels, most are doing fine. It's just a really few of the "ugly" people who turn into incels and that's most likely not because of the way they look.

I consider

Great, no one cares. You arrived at a conclusion based on what you want to be true, which is incredibly intellectually dishonest, and then you find outlier examples in order to prove your point, which you didn't, because you put the cart before the horse and never arrived at a point you didn't journey toward but instead started at and never left.

You seem to think believing something makes it true.

That's ironic because that's all what your subreddit consists of. And I didn't try to sell my opinion as the ultimate truth, not as you are doing it here, I merely explained to you that I yes, maybe believe you when you say that "incels" weren't treated nicely from early on. I also told you, that in my experience "incels" and "ugly" people aren't synonyms because most "ugly" people are doing just fine.

Incels wanted to believe the lie that women are decent, see beyond appearance, and are of a higher level of virtue.

EVERYONE wants to believe that lie. That's why everyone gets so angry when after years-decades they realize they've been sold a lie and women are closer to animals than people. Most men kill themselves at that point.

All your posts scream "Incels want to believe the lie that women are closer to animals than people." That's all your posts talk about. And you're off both of times. Women are neither animals nor "of a higher level of virtue". They're just people like you and me, and there will be assholes and there will be nice ones and there will be those who are more into sex, or more into appearance, and there will be those who are more into specific character traits and couldn't care less about your jaw. You act as if women were a different species but they aren't. They're just like men, with all the blacks and whites and greys in between.

You act as if women were a different species but they aren't.

Objective observation and measurement of data shows that men have much higher levels of empathy and view the appearance of the average woman with much less disdain than the opposite.

Men are from mars and women are from venus.

They're just like men, with all the blacks and whites and greys in between.

They aren't, and that's the problem. Saying they are just disappoints people when they realize your wishful thinking was akin to a white lie on her behalf and a betrayal toward him.

You arrive at the idea that women are just as men, but reality doesn't come to the same conclusion. You're guilty of intellectual deception of the self because you need women to be equal to men to keep your worldview intact.

Mate, you are getting ridiculed and obliterated. Let it go.

If you mean by "obliterated" that I'm getting downvoted then yeah, you guys sure as hell show me. Honestly, I'm not all surprised at all by the responses I got, it's the same shit it usually is :)

Honestly, I'm not all surprised at all by the responses I got, it's the same shit it usually is

Address the points by /u/AggravatingStop or you're full of shit.

Their point is that women ARE a different species. I don't know how to address that. They're set their mind on something ridiculous and there won't be anything I can say on the internet to change their mind. All that helps there are real life experiences, and I do hope they'll get them soon. Such blunt sexism makes me speechless, honestly.

No, the point that the experiences of women are significantly different to experiences of men in areas that matter. Where exactly is sexism in that?

I know "ugly people" and they're doing well. They make up for their looks by being able to offer something else

Aka Beta BuX. Below Average looking Normans will always be 2nd to Chad.

ok so let me get that straight. So there's "Chad" who's just handsome. End of the story. And there's below average looking Normans who are "2nd to Chad" and those might not be good looking but they've got other things going for themselves and...exactly why is that something you guys can't be? Sure, not being able to offer ANYTHING isn't really inviting but who could you blame? You don't want women either who are neither attractive nor have a good personality. Why should someone be interested in you if you don't have anything to offer and if you don't make any efforts to improve on yourself?

Normies only receive residual sex. Chads cant be fucking all of the pussies all of the time so once in a while the roasties will offer trickle down sex to Norman if he "proves" himself worthy like taking her out on a nice date.

I am even below a Norman. Whamen will not even allow me the opportunity to take them out because they wouldn't want to be seen in public with me

So why are foreveralones and incelswithouthate alone then? See, here is the funny part. Whenever someone tries to paint the picture that incels are alone only because they are bad people you invalidate the experience of every other virgin in the world.

well, it's probably something? Single people exist but they don't need another label for that, they've already got one. They're just single. Foreveralones aren't forever alone, that mindset shows they're probably bathing in self-pity. And that probably shows.

So if incels are a subset of virgins, then why do people think they can diagnose the problems of incels but admit that they don't know what the problem is for virgins?

Hey, go tell foreveralones that. I want to see that thread.

what do you mean with "that the problem for virgins is"? What problem are we talking about here, being a virgin? The fuck?

If you take the words I said and rearrange them, then I didn't say that.

I mean the problem where they are alone without romantic relationships.

What! It could be endless things! That it's just about the looks is super unlikely except for maybe if we're talking about socially awkward 14 year olds. Not finding someone you can be close to romantically and/or sexually can have endless reasons. And especially if we're talking about romantic relationships the looks are even less of a problem.
But it's always better to focus on the things you can do, the things you can work on than focusing on the things you have no influence on. I'm not saying that to educate anyone, this is something I personally live by and without it I'd be fucking unhappy. I think I have some physical flaws I can't change but if I'd focus on purely that I'd never be happy in my life. Instead I try to focus on the things I'm lacking in and that I CAN influence. I've learned that being able to have romantic relationships has nothing to do with my physical appearance. People will appreciate me for the things I hate about myself and they will look past the things I like about myself. There are attractive people in unhappy relationships because they maybe thing their looks is all that matters but they're wrong.

Right, because people are always looking to start relationships with people that they think are hideous looking.

is that the only thing you got from this? Really? Attractiveness is subjective, yes it is, and deep relationships form only when you get to know someone. Really get to know them. You probably won't come very far if you start a relationship with someone you know nothing about except for that you find them attractive.
If people find you attractive or not is their choice and it's nothing you can take away from them by saying you are unattractive. Maybe you think that, that doesn't mean everyone else who you'll meet will agree on that. And people also aren't averse to start talking to people no matter how appealing their appearance is to them. And if you're a decent human being nothing speaks against people being attracted to you. It happens all the time. "Unattractive" (subjective matter) people are in relationships just like "attractive" (subjective matter) ones are.
If your response is another one liner or an insult please don't bother, I've heard it before.

People say that looks open the door and personality keeps it open. All I'm saying is that people who lack relationships lack both.

I have no doubt you've heard it before. You probably closed your ears to it though because you want to believe the world is a good and just place and that virgins deserve their fate.

Self-reflection is incredibly sexy

Who says women aren't funny

You probably haven't done much self-reflection in your life, huh

Houuu show me that self reflexion baby vmmmm yesss i am all wet hmmml self reflect baby hmmmmm yeaavhh mooooar moaar

Not tolerating intolerance isn't being intolerant.

LMAO...you said that sincerely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbduLLatolw

Self-reflection is incredibly sexy

It's actually repulsive to see the way women manipulate betas.

Well said. I wholeheartedly agree.

They are not silent on the issue! Fat from it. And anyways, just keep blaming women for shit that's honestly our. Party if feminism is that women should be better for themselves and not men, be healthy for themselves, be their own person. Perhaps men should follow their example.

Nope. No rewards for feminine 'men'. Just step to the back of the line and pretend you have a chance.

huh, that's weird. I'm not conventionally attractive and feminine, and I don't have issues with that. Being fun and not being toxic seem to work just fine for me :)

teehee

Lmao just be fun around people bro

It's almost like being interesting is an attractive quality in a person that counteracts a lot of unattractive qualities.

I was making fun of the fact that you seem to be implying that it's easy to just be fun around other people.

Some people struggle with it, but its something that can be worked on unlike height for example. It seems like people here just want to hold a pity party about how little sex they get rather than try to be introspective and analyze what they are doing.

On the uni bus, I saw this shy looking feminist girl eyefuck this Chad who didn't give her any attention. She looked like she would sacrifice her body for a guy that never even noticed her.

You have no idea about her or what she is thinking.

you deny u/ harambeazn his ability to emphasize and make intelligent observations about behavior? how rude!! "that woman was thinking X", "oh, how dare you assume you can tell what she was thinking, she is above it all"

oh my fucking god, you guys are fucking great.
"There was this girl who I think was a feminist because I'm incredibly prejudging and there's only one type of way how feminists look and dress and so, she was definitely eyefucking this dude who was reaaallyyy attractive but only in a way incels think attractive men look like" and that's why ALL feminists DEFINITELY want men with fucked up jaws and you all should definitely believe me because this really happened.
And then you guys actually do believe it. Oh this is just great. So much hate based on nothing but lies, exaggerations and assumptions, oh wow.

Hate is a strong word kiddo..

What does it mean to "prejudge?" To judge before you judge?

Also, if she's wearing thick-framed glasses and has purple hair, she's a feminist.

If it walks like a duck. I use that with people on the internet as well. That's how I know that you're a moron.

Feminists look like feminists, lesbians look like lesbians, gay people look like gay people, the list goes on man.

I think you're triggered because you are also a feminist that looks like a typical feminist and you feel as though you are being personally attacked. That or you're a cucked soyboy that feels the need to defend women online.

one time this girl at the cafeteria was sitting so i askef her if the seat was free so i can seat and ead and she saw me like a big poop talking to her then later after few weeks she was eying this guy and smiling alone like a donkey fuck her

I think you should read up on what is meant by the term "toxic masculinity" before you try making arguments like this. It has nothing to do with physical appearance like you seem to think. It's more related to the way men act, and how they perceive their relationships with women (for example, believing that sex is something that women use to "reward" men).

If men who aren't naturally dominant are treated the same by women, then toxic masculinity would go away.

Everything women do, everything, parallels the way they say things like "masculinity is toxic" while simultaneously rewarding the "toxic masculinity" because the guy was attractive to her and that is what her feelings told her to do. She wants to be able to have human conversations and be viewed socially as having human values, then chase her animal feelings regardless of consequence but not be seen as she is. Incels are the consequence, so they must be lied to and shouted down.

Women can't admit their choice to reward that behavior with sex increased the behavior like any incentive would. THAT is what "girl power" IS. It's the ability to say they want a decent guy, but then chase their feelings the opposite direction and not be seen that way.

Women are never accountable for their choices. THAT is what girl power is. Power without responsibility. Choice with consequence. Result without action.

Women can't admit their choice to reward that behavior with sex increased the behavior like any incentive would. THAT is what "girl power" IS. It's the ability to say they want a decent guy, but then chase their feelings the opposite direction and not be seen that way.

Women are never accountable for their choices. THAT is what girl power is. Power without responsibility. Choice without consequence. Result without action.

^QFT

Very High IQ post

So it's women's fault you are an asshole?

Good start

What is masculine? Do you mean body type and facial features?

No, but everytime an asshole wins romantically it is.

Women shouldn't be surprised that so many men beat them.

always blaming woman. Take responsibility for yourself. I fucking hate this take, as if men were only machines that think about getting laid constantly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gha3kEECqUk

give this a watch.

8====D

give this a lick

I'd rather not to, but thanks.

Are you seriously suggesting for someone to watch McIntosh? Really?

masculinity" before you try making arguments like this. It has nothing to do with physical appearance like you seem to think. It's more related to the way men act, and how they perceive their relationships with women (for example, believing that sex is something that women use to "reward" men).

the point remains though. women fuck with toxic guys(https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&ei=pAPuWp2zG4TdgAbw-bmIDQ&q=i+have+sex+with+fuckboys&oq=i+have+sex+with+fuckboys&gs_l=psy-ab.3...139778.140662.0.140816.8.7.0.0.0.0.138.662.2j4.6.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.0.0....0.8dcm6cGLw1Y) and then wonder why toxic guys exist in the first place

every women who ever slept with a toxic guy is at fault too, since shes rewarding said behaviour

The site is always brigaged on weekends. The cuckolds, numales, and loser women that inhabit this place have to make everyone else feel bad since they don't have a good weekend going on.

Good idea. You clearly need some exercise and fresh air

You're not even putting effort into it.

What kind of a loser life do you have that you waste your time here and don't even put effort into it?

You don't get this time back, life flunkie.

You're pathetic, dude

Those are things you can't change probably, but you definitely can change that bad attitude

meanwhile “i like bad boys teehee”

Girls don't say that, bruh

even assuming you have never heard a women say anything ever, that is very low iq

a lot of articles from sites targeted towards a female audience, often written by women if you take even less than a minute to look

not to mention many attractive murderers getting fucktons of love letters

So you're into the type of girl that sends love letters to murderers?

woah, where did that goalpost go? It seems you’ve moved it quite a bit.

Well obviously those ones are not into you, so why not try and appeal to the less crazy ones, the level headed ones? It's your own fault you haven't actually tried with them.

As for taking what you can get, you should probably set your own goalposts in a realistic spot. One step at a time.

Nice strawman baseless assumptions you've got there m8.

"Women want bad boys" is a strawman argument as well

I’ve already responded to you on this. There are indeed a notable amount of women who are attracted to “bad boys”. Not all women, possibly not even a majority, and they aren’t exclusively attracted to them, but there are women that do like bad boys.

So “women want bad boys” is indeed a strawman argument, but as a strawman of what I had said in an effort to discredit it.

What happened to women not wanting bad boys?

Maybe some, sure, just like there are some guys who legitimately believe it's everyone else's fault they can't get laid

So you admit that you were wrong about women not saying that they want bad boys?

No I don't. I've never seen a woman say that. Women's preferences vary greatly, but not once have I (in my experience) heard any woman declare they want a "bad boy", which is a super dated concept, by the way. Maybe some bad boy characteristics are attractive to some. Something I can guarantee is NOT attractive is being a whiny cunt that thinks all women have the same preferences.

No I don't. I've never seen a woman say that. Women's preferences vary greatly, but not once have I (in my experience) heard any woman declare they want a "bad boy", which is a super dated concept, by the way. Maybe some bad boy characteristics are attractive to some.

Well, the women who write love letters to murderers in prison are enough proof that there are women who want bad boys.

Something I can guarantee is NOT attractive is being a whiny cunt that thinks all women have the same preferences.

Doesn't stop women from fucking big burly misogynists, and I'd describe them as whiny cunts who think all women have the same preferences.

The reason they don't fuck us is because we're ugly, not because of what we say on anonymous internet forums lolol

Ugly dudes get laid all the time. I'm willing to bet the reason you don't is because your attitude on women causes you to say this stuff on "anonymous internet forums", and your terrible attitude is pretty unattractive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2236635/Taylor-Swift-reveals-looking-bad-boy--willing-change-ways.html

She's an entertainer, and one single person

Yeah, but now you have seen a woman say that.

Never stick your dick in crazy!

How do you define a "bad boy"?

I like a man who treats me kindly, doesn't assign me to the role of "manager of household tasks", and is willing to own a dog (or 3).

Can he also ride a motorcycle, have tattoos, and long hair? Sure.

Can he cuss me out, hit me, and spend every other weekend in jail for getting into drunken fights? Absolutely not.

I appreciate you coming in here with a female perspective, these guys just don't get it lol

>willing to own a dog (or 3)

so you're fine with polygamy?

This is why you're single.

took longer for the generic roastie response than i expected tbh

Well you're in the right subreddit.

Enh, I laughed. I have a pretty immature sense of humour though.

I do know girls who go for the “bad boys”, but I also know men who go for girls that they know are no good/cheaters/disrespectful. Sometimes, (not always) it comes down to how the person feels he/she DESERVES to be treated. Personally, I enjoy coming home to the same man every night, being respected as an equal partner in our relationship and being financially stable together so that we can build the rest of our lives and stay a boring vanilla couple.

good for you then

Thanks :)

The problem with what you suggest is that you're focusing on the masculinity part, when its the toxicity that matters. Just as you would be upset about a boss who outwardly fosters a cooperative workplace but secretly undermines the credibility of you and your coworkers, the problem isn't in the feminine trait of cooperation and community seeking behavior. The problem is the toxicity.

The majority of straight women like masculine men. The majority of straight men like feminine women. This doesn't mean every one of them. If you're a 5' 3" soyboy who is not inherently masculine, maybe you should try being yourself instead of attempting to emulate something you don't understand.

If they are inherently masculine, then act masculine. If they are inherently androgynous, then act androgynous. If they are inherently feminine, then act feminine. I reiterate, the problem is in the toxicity, not in fem/masc/androgyny.

You're misunderstanding. You're talking about a 5'3" soyboy, i.e. a feminine man whose femininity is caused in part by excessive estrogen from overconsumption of soy. I'm not saying that short people are inherently feminine and tall people are inherently masculine. A person's ideology and behavior are primarily what show them as feminine or masculine. There are hormones that push or pull in different directions accordingly, but unless you have low T that shouldn't be an issue as a man. Genetics don't have as much to do with masculine behavior, see the gentle giant trope and the small man syndrome trope.

Ultimately, you are conflating being tall as having masculine behavior, when instead its having a physical trait that is considered attractive by women more than it is by men.

What is masculine for you?

So not about behavior? Just physique?

Not even kind of true.

Nobody takes you seriously, you delusional faggot. You’re a grown man who plays video games.

Like a mexican gang member ? Those guys seem tough.

A 5’3” Mexican would be raped by 6’6” Tyrone in prison

Not sure about that.

I'm pretty sure a low intelligence tyrone wouldn't stand up against a mexican gain.

Mexican/LATAM gangs are resourceful. Its no small feat to run some of the most brutal drug gangs. They have been shaped by evolution.

Tyrone on the other hand is known for probably being stupid and high and probably trying to punch a cop or something.

Those blood and crips SOBs probably have nothing on real violent organized drug gangs.

Humans are super-predators . We have dominated over every other predator.

We are slower and weaker than than all of them (lions , wolves , bears) but our hive war strategy is unmatched. That is our only strength.

As an individual you aint shit.

La eMe wouldn't allow that.

feminists only complain about incels never about gang members.

A good person.

Whatever they like as long as they can deal with the consequences

Like himself and not care about his height. My extended family is good example of this with well over 100 dudes with heights as low as 5/2 and as tall as 6/8 and not one has romance troubles.

I'm 5/4 and have been married for 15 years.

Feminists just go for Tyrone to resolve any internal conflict.

From my personal experience, it kind of seems like the guys complaining here haven't actually had too much hands on experience with women. Either that or they're much older. Those within and around my age often prefer a more effeminate man. Sure, they may like/prefer a taller, more socially 'manly man', but they're not super picky. A lot of interest is usually based around similar likes and dislikes. I've noticed women closer to my sister's age range (around 35) are a lot more like that due to antiquated ideals.

nice projecting. go to any party/club and see the interactions. Hint: it is not the nice gentlemen whos going to be popular with the girls xD

Ugh. Clubrats in general (male and female) tend to be a rather odd subset of society. The club scene in itself, in my opinion, is pretty superficial and toxic.

90% of women I know go to clubs.

Ugh. I pity you then. I can barely stand going to bars anymore, let alone night clubs. That also may be why I only have a few friends. Still prefer it that way though.

noooooooo! didn't you hear the lesson? People who go to bars and clubs are a tiny, obscure, sub-culture that normal people nickname "clubrats". Definitley not the norm /s

Let’s face it: you’re not going to a club to find a soulmate or serious relationship, you’re going there to have a superficial hook-up or just dance with friends. The club scene is not where you will find the people looking for or acting like gentlemen or classy ladies. It’s the atmosphere in general. Local hobby/language classes, laid-back sports or video/board game bars and social gatherings tend to be where most people (in my experience) go to meet or have met serious relationship partners.

nds. The club scene is not where you will find the people looking for or acting like gentlemen or classy ladies. It’s the atmosphere in general. Local hobby/language classes, laid-back sports or video/board game bars and social gatherings tend to be where most people (in my experience) go to meet or have met serious relationship partners.

and most girls i know LOVE the club. So the point remains: femaloids reward toxic masculanity with free sex, and feminist man with pay-2sex .

You should meet some other girls then. I haven’t been clubbing since I was 19 because I hate the environment so much.

Easy fix: don't go looking for girls at a club! Clubs are mostly for single people looking for superficial one-night-only hookups. The entire basis of most of what goes on is based upon how you look, not your gentleman-like factor. There are just certain places where, based upon the demographic, you won't find someone with interest in you, and vice versa.

except you can totaly find girls at club if youre good looking

Yeah, I said that. As previously stated, people go to clubs to find someone that they're physically attracted to, not much else. You don't exactly go there to find the possible love of your life. Of which requires a much deeper connection than skin deep.

I think there is this same thing for me. I claim to want a good girl who will take care of me, then I date bad hoes who could suck a golf ball through a straw.

i would take feminism way more serious if females dated short, feminine looking and acting guys and not 6'4 football chads

Go say that on a feminist sub LOL.

men only act in the way that attracts women

I don't know if this comment is awful because, once again, we are blaming women for everything; or because that's way hard on men. The fuck, we have our own shit going on, not everything we do is to fuck more, talk for yourself.

I've never actually dated a guy over 5'9 and I've turned down plenty of guys taller than 6'.

The trick is to treat us like we're human beings. Here are some tips, be kind. Be polite. Don't tell us we're not worthy of "masculine" hobbies or careers. Don't call us sluts if we wear too much make-up, don't call us ugly is we don't wear any.

Additionally, Be self-aware, don't be afraid to apologize when you make a mistake. Don't let something not looking "manly" stop you from trying. Don't try to impress everyone with how much of a bro you are.

That's fair advice but I don't think it's the underlying points this sub is trying to convey. If you look past all the ugliness, you can boil it down to that females on average are physiologically programmed to be hypergamous (much more than men on average) and attraction is far more physical and looks-based rather than personality as some may claim. It results in the 80/20 rule shown in the deleted okcupid articles, and that the bottom % of men in terms of physical looks will basically never have a chance no matter how great their personality is.

you can boil it down to that females on average are physiologically programmed to be hypergamous (much more than men on average)

What? Are you kidding me? Women have traditionally been urged to "find a husband before it's too late" and told that it's better to be married to a horrible person than be a spinster. Heck look at the media trope of "fat, ugly, rude man with 'hot' wife".

attraction is far more physical and looks-based rather than personality as some may claim.

There are plenty of shallow people in this world, men and women. Is that the kind of person you want for a partner?

the bottom % of men in terms of physical looks will basically never have a chance no matter how great their personality is.

If all they have is attractiveness, they're going to get a women who values attractiveness too highly. When that man starts to age and not look so attractive, that relationship is going to be miserable as fuck. If he becomes chronically ill and can't maintain a perfect physique that relationship's going to fall to shit.

There are women who want a man with a good personality. They themselves might not be the Instagram model. You'd probably look past them in a crowd. The trick is to meet people. Go to clubs, community events, the park... get to know people. If there are women there, over time you'll get to know one and eventually, if your personalities match, that click can happen.

PSA: in this context, attractiveness and hygiene habits are two different things.

What? Are you kidding me?

No, I am not. There is genetic evidence that the vast females in human history have reproduced while a much smaller % of men have. Woman being more hypergamous than men is an evolutionary trait developed over tens of thousands of years that's been overridden by what you call traditional "find a husband before it's too late. That is actually a recent, cultural development within the past thousand or so years or so. It overrides the base physiological behaviors of humans to an extent.

What's happening now due to the sexual liberation is that this cultural behavior of monogamy is taken away, leaving the natural behavior of men and women. Humans have an inherent polygamous nature where men at the top are fine with having multiple partners and "date down" the gene pool while women are hypergamous and "date up".

The "physiological basis" of humanity seems to grouping ourselves into tribes and going to war with each other. I don't condone that behavior either.

I won't deny that people tend to have groups as "ups" and "downs", but I will say that personality is a bigger up for most women than you give it credit for. A partner who will take time to help his neighbors out, not for reward but because it's what good people do is an "up" for most women. Being rude to a waiter is a "down" for most women.

And of course there are women who would put up with horrible behavior. They themselves would belong in the "down" category.

There are women who want different things but the incels have a point that in modern western culture it's much harder to find such a person because hypergamy has been exacerbated by technology and culture

Or technology has made those people more visible.

Doubt it. Some of the data incels present is compelling and also objective.

It does make a good case that hypergamy is facilitated.

You're implying women are the keepers of sex who "reward" men. That isn't exactly treating us with fairness and kindness.

Do you want a partner who's so shallow they only value attractiveness? Or value it too highly? There are a multitude of women out there for whom attractiveness isn't a major factor.

You literally said " Well if you are rewarding toxic masculinity by rewarding those men with sex, love and affection, then you are contributing to the reason why all men want to be as masculine and dominant as possible."

You're implying women are the keepers of sex who "reward" men.

That's literally how human relationships work.

What if you do all those things and women still don't care about you because you are ugly with anxiety?

Some people don't think they can handle a partner with uncontrolled anxiety. Seek a therapist or a psychiatrist and try to get that handled.

I've been seeing a psychologist for 3 years. Still the same me.

How about a support group in your area for anxiety? Can your psychiatrist recommend one?

In three years, it has never come up. Apparently, he doesn't feel it's necessary.

Also a group for people with social anxiety? That sounds like a mistake except for people who like to watch other people self-destruct.

It's a safe place for people with the same anxieties to meet. IT's easier to talk knowing everyone's been through what you have and won't be judging.

Yeah, but this isn't like an AA meeting. You can't just stop having social anxiety. How would meeting with other people with social anxiety help? I've been on the social anxiety subreddit. Most of those people are in relationships. They still wouldn't understand.

Something about hearing how other people cope helps. Also it's a place to go.

I don't care how other people pretend that having a relationship doesn't matter.

I have places to go. I could grab a book and go to Narnia, MiddleEarth, the Marvel Universe or Hogwarts.

Then why do you care if you don't have a girlfriend?

Why does anybody care about anything?

My point is you seem to think you're too good for most people, and now you're wondering why you can't get a girlfriend. Most women aren't into that attitude.

this isnt true my friend is a hard femme man getting puss and dick from all over the tristate area. meanwhile im a hot chick and im a virgin. but he wont give it to me and i asked

Yeah, stereotypical masculinity is not necessarily toxic masculinity, though elements of it can certainly be identified as toxic. Things "such as risk-taking, violence, dominance, primacy of work, disdain for homosexuality, need for emotional control, desire to win, and pursuit of social status" are referred to as toxic because the people who hold them or are subject to them " tend to be more likely to experience psychological problems such as depression, stress, body image problems, substance abuse, and poor social functioning."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

lol none of that is "toxic" whoever wrote that wiki page sounds like a typical sjw. also lmao at "boys will be boys" is also "toxic"? wtf. men are supposed to be men, not soy as fuck. also lmao at trying to pressure the average men into accepting gay by claiming a man is "toxic" is he doesnt like homo's.

All those traits are statistically associated with a lower standard of living for their holders. Do you think "depression, stress, body image problems, substance abuse, and poor social functioning" are not "very bad, unpleasant, or harmful"? 'cuz that's a definition of toxic.

Kinda sounds like you hold some of these beliefs. Would you consider yourself not depressed, without body image problems, or poor social functioning? Or is this a case of "Am I out of touch with reality? No, it must be the professional scientists performing actual empirical research and gathering volumes of data on the question that are out of touch with reality."?

no they arent. you can make any stat make something seem "associated" with anything. especially if its trying to push a anti male, pro feminist ideology. let boys be boys. men and women are different.

Ah, spoken like a true amateur science denier! Sure, if you're either a shitty or unscrupulous statistician, you can make any stat seem "associated" with anything. That's why journals such as "Journal of Counseling Psychology" where this finding was published are peer reviewed by many other professional scientists with a variety of backgrounds and interests. To maintain the credibility of their work, reviewers spend weeks vetting the claims and the statistics of other people trying to publish in their same journal to ensure that their journal is not discredited. I'm not sure what your credentials are for denying the validity of their findings, but I am sure that multiple people with years of experience analyzing statistics and psychological papers would disagree with you.

lmao stop trying to deny the blackpill and legit truth. nobody cares about study's that dont help in the real world, thats meaningless.

Gee, sure seems like the people that reviewed the study, the journal that published the findings, the scientists engaged in the study, the 35 other studies that cite this one within the last year, the 290 institutions that subscribe to the journal, the American Psychological Association, and the dude that put this up on the wikipedia care.

You haven't demonstrated any reason we should believe this study "dont [sic] help in the real world", or any reason why "CaligulaWasRight" is a better source of "legit truth" than a meta-analysis of 79 other peer-reviewed studies. While you're certainly demonstrating your capability of spouting blind conjectures, you're not the best at formulating arguments, are you? Maybe it's hard to do when your hands are occupied covering your eyes and ears. Oh, but do tell me that I'm the one trying to deny the truth. s/ That's certainly not textbook projection /s XD

wtf. dude stop spamming studies and shit. the real world trumps and kind of studies. masculinity is good for men, and so is femininity for women. the issue is women are going full retard and trying to take masculinity from men. thats the issue.

"The real world trumps any kind of studies", says person who is apparently unaware that empirical data could be derived from no source other than the world. Do you think scientists have access to someplace other than the world? Are you serious? XD

Real world lol

Lol desire to win is toxic. You soyboy sjws better hope there's never another large war. If that happens you'll be praying there are "toxic" males left to save you.

Maybe, that's yet to be determined. I'm not familiar with any soy-based restrictions on military participation or firearm usage. Or research to show that belief doesn't adjust during wartime threat. However what has been determined is that within a country dominated by peace, holding one's "desire to win" in high regard is associated with a shittier life.

Ah it's no big deal.

Just learn to speak mandarin.

If females stopped doing this, I'd stop hating them but they never will and for that reason I will always hate them.

women never started doing this and you apparently base all your "real life" experience on porn.

What the fuck does porn have to do with anything retard. How can you honestly sit here and say that women don't do this? Dishonest dipshit.

Porn has everything to do with this because not all people are attractive in real life, but they still manage to have functioning relationships. You sound as if you'd believe women would want only one type of men when this in fact just statistically doesn't make any damn sense and which would also be nothing you'd say if you'd go out once in a while and experience real human interactions. It seems as if you wouldn't have any friends, or, if you do have them in real life, non who have boyfriends or girlfriends.
Also, calling people "retard", how damn nice of you. You're really showing your appealing colors here.

What are you even talking about? Who said anything about "relationships" here? Keep strawmanning bro

I was and you were.

If females stopped doing this

About women wanting only one type of man. People are in relationships, all the time. There are endless types of relationships, mate.

Betabux and post wall roasties settling with you after ignoring you in your youth is not a relationship. They worship tall, white men who are the embodiment of "toxic masculinity" during their youth, they have one night stands with them, they have threesomes with them etc. etc. and if anyone calls them out on it they respond with shit like "aww, who hurt you?". It's very very clear and only a numale feminist faggot like you would defend them.

and that's why I think all your real life experience is based on porn. Who the fuck talks like this and who the fuck genuinely thinks this is how real life works lol.

What part of this sounds like porn to you? Genuinely curious.

Are you one of those naive male feminists like the only guy in this post?

If females stopped doing this

In response to

those feminists only want guys who are 6 ft + and goodlooking.

this

They worship tall, white men who are the embodiment of "toxic masculinity" during their youth

this

they have one night stands with them, they have threesomes with them etc

Yes. People have threesomes. But not everyone all the time. Not all attractive women or all attractive men. Also not all people who had a threesome are attractive. You guys are making it yourselves too fucking simple and it's fucking frustrating. I DON'T understand how it is possible that I have people around me you wouldn't consider attractive and who are still happy and in relationships and who never had problems with something like this like you apparently have. HOW is it possible for you to see everything so black and white if you DON'T base all that on porn? Because it simply isn't and IN just don't understand with what kind of people you surround yourself with who'd prove any of your silly points when so many experience the complete opposite.

Do you think your idiotic exceptions mean anything? I mean your entire argument is "not ALL of them".

Actually my point is "most of them not". But yeah, if the argument of your whole community is "all of them", shouldn't you be open to people who say "not all of them"? After all that's what you say when people suggest you're a hateful, misogynistic and potentionally dangerous group of people.
And again you ignored most of my comment, as you always did. You definitely don't make a satisfying interlocutor.

I ignored most of your comment because all of it basically consists of "not ALL of them". Relationships don't really mean shit since they can be based on so much more than sexual attraction and they usually are. My experiences with women, with how they lie about their past, my knowledge of what feminism pushes and what the most empowered by feminism women act like is enough proof for me.

women never started doing this.

Stop lying. Many women are guilty of doing exactly that.

Even you say "many". While I'd argue it's "some", we can both agree on that it's not "all". So why the fuck do you focus so much on those who do?

Fucking bitter moron

White knight faggot

Ouch

Odds are you can identify with one or more of the following:

-Painfully unattractive physical self with a matching mind

-Radiating insecurity with no motivation beyond whom you will vigorously masturbate to since an actual partner makes far fetched seem laughable

-Living vicariously through the armor/weapons upgrades of whichever platform you inevitably waste much of your life on

All being the fuel behind your hatred for anyone, male or female, who decides to empower one another for self improvement rather than self loathing.

Get the fuck off this ridiculous sub. It promotes cyclical negativity and radicalization to the point where your subs are being banned and society is beginning to learn more about this sick sub culture for the first time.

Stop hating women, focus on improving yourself. Blaming others will amount in a life more lonely than the one you are experiencing. There’s always time to change if you’re willing.

Oh shit fam you changed my life! Revolutionary advice! Eat shit.

Glad I could offer some valuable insight my man

Oh and enjoy a miserable life of eternal virginity bitch

Say hello to your wife's boyfriend for me :*

How are 6ft tall, white, broad shouldered, good looking males toxic? I don't understand the "rewarding" thing either.

Sorry guys your 2 inch dicks will never be what a woman wants

2.0 inches = 5.08 centimetres.

^{I'm a bot. Downvote to 0 to delete this comment. Info}

where are you taking this crap from? No, seriously, what makes you think that most/all feminists (the female ones I'm guessing) want "guys who are 6 ft + and goodlooking." Are you basing this on anything else than pure assumptions?
I doubt you've ever met an actual feminist in real life before. I really really doubt it.

This is such an insane comment. People wanna fuck who they wanna fuck. That is of course influenced by society, fashions, images, media and the way all these things work on our individual and collective imagination. Toxic masculinity is not about any physical traits

Women are attracted to dark triad traits in men. Nevermind the masculinity, they are attracted to toxic behavior, period. Female sexuality inherently rewards antisocial men.

https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/The-Dark-Triad-Personality.pdf

Toxic femininity doesn't exist, bro. now take some soy supplements and try being less masculine, i find it toxic in this environment.

They enjoy the toxic masculinity of the attractive guys, then blame the unattractive guys for it.

“toxic masculinity” literally ONLY exists because of female behavior. Women blame men for creating it while cumming to the chads that beat up incels and male feminist soy types.

To talk about toxic masculinity, you must first define it.

The worst-case ideal type for men is usually too aggressive, selfish, and not caring enough. The worst-case ideal type for women is usually coddling and manipulative.

The best-case archetype for a man is usually strong, protecting, and generous. The ideal woman is usually beautiful, caring, and generous.

There is an old American story that fathers used to tell their boys. The story describes three types of men: wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs. Wolves are lonely and strong, and they prey on sheep and weak wolves alike. Sheep are naïve and weak, and get eaten by wolves. Sheepdogs are strong and reliable, and they protect the sheep against the wolves. Strong mind, strong body, strong heart.

• Be strong and caring; protect the weak.

• Respect your elders and hierarchies; question them when you are led to be weak or selfish.

• Offer your services to women, elders, and the weak (carry heavy things, offer your coat, offer your bed and sleep on the floor, feed others first, hold the door open for everyone).

• As a rule, your needs always come last. But if you don’t take care of yourself well, you won’t be able to take care of others.

• Never be a victim; when bad things happen to you, the onus is on you to create the right mindset to recover and thrive.

• Never blame others for your own feelings.

• Do not encourage victimhood in others.

• It is good to cry for the joys and pains of others. Never cry out of pity for yourself.

• Always be kind and generous. Be firm and know your boundaries. No one respects a man without boundaries. Women do not like weak men.

• Rights and obligations are given; privileges are earned.

• Try new things, learn new skills; learn skills that will make you a good protector.

• The simplest stories are often the best ones; the simplest solutions are not always best; choose stairs over elevators.

• Be open to changing your mind; don't change your mind too much.

• Go on a walkabout at least twice in your life.

• When about to give up, try just a little longer; try a little longer next time.

• Have women friends you won’t seduce; spend time with aunties and grandmothers.

• Observe and study the mysteries and beauties of femininity.

source

Toxic masculinity is a dumb phrase how it is used. It is however important to be open to the fact that sometimes you may need help. Don't be afraid of getting help and being kind.

OK FUCK THIS WHOOOOLE THING. This has got to be the most pathetic excuse for a take I've seen here. Men, let's stop this bullshit, take responsibility for yourself. This makes it look as if everymen is just a sexual maniac that does everything with the only objective of getting laid. You are just shifting the blame to women AGAIN, which is why feminism exists. Say what you want, but at least feminists try to raise women up, you guys and the rest of "the manosphere" -you may or may not be part of, don't care- just project your own inability to think beyond your insecurities and anxiousness over social status to everyone else. "Normies", "Chad" and "Stacies" have their own shit going on, they are not trying to get laid constantly. There, swallow that black pill.

This makes it look as if everymen is just a sexual maniac that does everything with the only objective of getting laid.

Women don't live to look good for other people either, regardless there is a standard of beauty pushed onto women that make them do drastic things just so they can look and feel beautiful the way society wants them to be. That standard of beauty is bullshit and so is the standard of masculinity, but that doesn't change the fact that ugly plain women and emasculated men get eaten up and spit back out by society.

"Normies", "Chad" and "Stacies" have their own shit going on, they are not trying to get laid constantly. There, swallow that black pill.

You mean the people born with money don't constantly worry about where their next meal is coming from? Shocker.

white men are less toxic than streetshitters, sorry to break it to you

Toxic masculinity is about mindset & moral values, not abt how tall a guy is.

My boyfriend is 5'7 and 130 lbs.

Maybe, that's yet to be determined. I'm not familiar with any soy-based restrictions on military participation or firearm usage. Or research to show that belief doesn't adjust during wartime threat. However what has been determined is that within a country dominated by peace, holding one's "desire to win" in high regard is associated with a shittier life.

Ah it's no big deal.

Just learn to speak mandarin.

If you mean by "obliterated" that I'm getting downvoted then yeah, you guys sure as hell show me. Honestly, I'm not all surprised at all by the responses I got, it's the same shit it usually is :)

In three years, it has never come up. Apparently, he doesn't feel it's necessary.

Also a group for people with social anxiety? That sounds like a mistake except for people who like to watch other people self-destruct.

No, the point that the experiences of women are significantly different to experiences of men in areas that matter. Where exactly is sexism in that?