You either born to lose or born to win. You can’t escape either.

Explains why both outcasts & normies are crushed under the weight of this subconscious truth.

Win what though?

Read OP’s post, those traits allow you to ‘win’ at virtually every aspect of life.

Being hyper social, healthy, getting that promotion, getting the girl etc.

Yes, but who defines what "winning" is?

It’s based on general societal notions of winning.

As subjective as it may be, having a large group of supportive friends, being naturally charismatic/loved, being more inclined to receive promotions & by extension pay raises, not being subject to mental issues, having a diverse range of active hobbies from involved parents, all of these will make you happy or at the very least provide a solid foundation for you to be happy & fulfilled.

We’re social creatures & the modern world is only making our social presentation more important. Winning the genetic lottery & parental lottery is playing the game of life with the godmode cheat active.

Ironically, the best way to acquire these things is to not intentionally seek them out.

What?

These traits of normies are instilled in them during early childhood, there is no true seeking them out or acquiring them. You are right about not seeking them out though, to an extent.

As much as outcasts love to fantasise about overcoming their flaws & becoming normies, the truth is that they can only emulate their traits & cannot take advantage. It’s never totally natural & normies pick up on that. You’ll always see a pseudo-normie in any decently sized normie clique, most of the time a Male, who fits in just enough to be accepted, but not enough to take advantage of those traits. Because they’re copied.

Normies possess underlying social information to pull from & apply to numerous situations. They can apply their subconscious knowledge.

Outcasts can, at best, copy the base information, the quintessential normie traits, but can’t apply them to any social situations which don’t have clearly defined responses. It’s like trying to open a file on your PC that relies on various other files, but some of those other files are missing.

These traits of normies are instilled in them during early childhood, there is no true seeking them out or acquiring them.

Not true. I am living proof that this is not true.

As much as outcasts love to fantasise about overcoming their flaws & becoming normies, the truth is that they can only emulate their traits & cannot take advantage. It’s never totally natural & normies pick up on that. You’ll always see a pseudo-normie in any decently sized normie clique, most of the time a Male, who fits in just enough to be accepted, but not enough to take advantage of those traits. Because they’re copied.

100% agree. You will always stand out. But you can use this to your advantage as well. Standing out can be better than blending in.

Normies possess underlying social information to pull from & apply to numerous situations. They can apply their subconscious knowledge

I have 0 conscious knowledge of how to act socially and just had to learn it all.

Normies are, generally, rigorously socially conditioned by parents brought being pushed into hobbies & dragged around to their friends’ houses/forced to interact with frequent visitors. Normies are also taken on lots of vacations or general trips out. All of this is subconscious training & grants them inherent social skills. Outcasts, due to the genetic lottery, don’t respond the same way even if exposed to similar circumstances. Like I said, the best they could do is emulate.

It’s not fully unconscious, there is learning required, but that learning is done at such an early age that it becomes part of their social DNA. If you had to learn later in life, then you lost the parental lottery & as such aren’t a true normie.

Hey, genetically_cursed, just a quick heads-up:
untill is actually spelled until. You can remember it by one l at the end.
Have a nice day!

^{The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.}

I actually think you are in a toxic mindset and your misery is not permanent.

You don't know anything about me.

He wasn’t talking about you.

If you can’t discern the use of ‘you’ when speaking generally at, what I presume is a postpubescent, age, then you probably shouldn’t be using the internet.

Same old 'lower your standards' from normal people who will never really understand this feeling of utter frustration for wasted and miserable life.

How is that not directed at me?

Because his specific comment that you replied to Last was speaking generally.

I’m not disputing your point about ‘lower your standards’ normie BS, I’m just saying you read his comment wrong on a grammatical basis. The ‘you’ was general.

born to lose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOmizjm0Xw

I don't deny this. I fully accept and embrace it. Read my comment below.

I AM NOT A LOSER! BECAUSE I REDEFINED WHAT LOSING AND WINNING IS!

Holy mother of Cope

This is actually true, and realizing it is what helped me out of depression.

Once you realize this, you can stop trying to define your satisfaction based on other peoples' ideas of success. You can stop labelling yourself as a failure for not measuring up to standards set by other people. You can just do whatever the fuck you think you should do, and not feel guilty for it.

That’s pretty much the case, I think a lot of outcasts would be surprised at the number of normies who would subconsciously love to stop caring about social standards & notions of success. They’re essentially, as you put it, slaves. The tragedy is that they’ve been plugged into a Matrix style hivemind of collective expectations & standards, but they’re totally self aware & can only (poorly) delude themselves that this isn’t the case.

That may even be a reason why a lot of unassuming outcasts, ones who aren’t stand outs, get bullied by Chads & Stacies. Jealousy. I’m sure a lot of them are resentful of their vapid, false lifestyles where they have to constantly wear a mask to please empty people purely to get ahead. Outcasts may be unfulfilled, but at least they have some sort of choice. Their lives aren’t dictated for them & they weren’t brainwashed into blind adherence to a particular set of standards as children.

Ironically, the successful people who normies try to emulate are typically people who have unplugged.

That’s just it, it’s the root of their desires. They’re conditioned to want success, but really they want it because it promises freedom through being unplugged. Once you reach your pinnacle, fuck social expectations. I guess it’s why a lot of normies become much more mouthy & give less fucks once they hit middle age, by then they’ve usually reached top positions & peaked. Why stay plugged in when it no longer benefits you?

Love your comment bro

id rather be a normie with a family and kids instead of being a wandering angry soul

lol @ actively wanting cuckoldry.

I AGREEE!!!!

you can escape this if you go the illegal incel career path. drug cartel, pimp, hitman, debt collector, bank robber, dictator etc.

You’ll make money & go on a power trip, but that’s just a flimsy barricade against the inner emptiness of being an outcast. There’s a void there that normies fill using their superior traits, a void that outcasts, regardless of which path they take in life, can never fill.

TV and movies are lying to you. There is no easy money in crime. It's impossible to succeed as a criminal if you are not cut for the job (genetics+upbringing+luck)

I love Kylie but he isn't the best PG

this is very true. Like all things in life, wealth congregates to the top. The wealthy are more likely to be good looking, sociable, come from good family homes. For example Warren Buffett's dad was wealthy and taught him investing, kinda like Kyle Irving's dad taught him how to be a good basketball player. Tony Robbins was a loser in high school until he had a growth spurt and grew to fucking 6'7 and then he started getting girls, jobs, and became super confident.

This guy gets it. Nothing has changed. Life is like Gattaca.

I'll get the rope...

Cope

If your parents are broke, uneducated, silly, alcoholics, having terrible marriage, having constant problems

Something something 30% of children in US live with single parent LOL

Regardless at least in all this what you have left is your morals (atheist or religious). The last bastion of a great man is not whether he died known to history but whether he died true to himself. Take it or leave it I am not here to start a comment war.

The rope store is calling me..

I remember hearing something said of "happiness" that really made me think. I with I could remember how it was stated because I may not be able to describe it. But the gist of it was that in the US, in particular (and I guess The West in general to some degree), the common view is that you are somehow responsible for being happy. Sounds somewhat benign but if you are not happy (and I posit that it is really not that common a state for anyone - the "human condition") then you actually BLAME YOURSELF because it is a failure and the unhappiness is the proof. Seemed a little self-fulfilling.

This, btw, is one of my favorite little scenes in a show. Slartibartfast :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGcBmlDTcHo

Great post. Thanks for this.

Looks is a lot of it, but not all of it.

Example: Patrick Warbuton. We all know this actor to be a very confident, funny, sort of cocky jackass, and most would regard him to be good looking (if you don't know his name, just Google it and you'll recognize him instantly). That's his persona and he delivers on it, and is a successful person.

With a different upbringing or some changes in his personality based on upbringing / negative experiences / brain chemistry, he might be some dour, alcoholic a-hole working at a Jiffy Lube in Dayton, who no one cares about, but at least some of the sluts around town find handsome enough to fuck.

A few different experiences and slight changes in brain chemistry results is a totally different "life" for this guy -- but his height and looks can help at least carry him with the ladies to a certain extent, but the rest of the course of his life falls into a category outside of looks, to a large extent.

This is a good post because it emphasizes how looks is NOT 'everything'

It's a lot of it, but def not all of it.

Successful Normans have Type A personalities, for one thing.

I AGREE!!!!

So desperate to avoid the fact you're alone because of choices that you make

Who said I did?

How?

You said that a person is perhaps alone because of their choices. I would infer from your hauty tone that you fancy yourself someone who makes good choices. You have ppl. You have support. All because you made good decisions. It's more an inference that your comment indicates a belief on your part that you do deserve companionship bc you have carved this path with conscientious chisel. You chose not to be lame, self pitying, even though you could have at times, and this attitude and behavior led you to your current non desperate glory. you did kind of imply that a favorable reality is self determined by choice and thus, deserved or earned. Quit being so pleased with yourself arguing semantics over substance.

The op countered that perhaps chance or luck played so large a role in your reality that your perception of having created your own destiny is a delusion. Or maybe the op is more concerned with the concept of merit.

Isn't it difficult to challenge the concept of pre determination if it's true that either there's an omniscient God as all the assholes ruining the planet for thousands of centuries claim OR if Time is a one directional linear progression ruled by causal law? Philo101, yeah I took it. This debate is about whether ppl make their own destinies or not. The thinkers haven't exactly cracked this one yet. The bible contradicts itself asserting that God knows all AND ppl have free will. If you believe that everything has a cause (hard to disprove), then that too indicates predetermination as each cause is theoretically knowable and so too are the effects.

I agree with OP in that someone who undergoes FGM in Ethiopia is not more deserving of this fate than Blair from Gossip Girl. For some, earth is heaven and for others it is hell, in spite of an individual's behavior or choices. two students study the same but only one gets to fancy college, I defy any presumption that one deserved it more. Arbitrary, subjective, random chance, luck. Some how the lucky student gets to snap his suspenders proudly holding a cigar in the company of his high potential comrades while the other student finds himself in a less advantageous school and flounders with self doubt and rage?

In the end, I see your point and agree that the loser here should make the best of his deck and make a go at playing his hand best he can. it makes more sense to behave in a hopeful way, assuming that one can effect positive change in their life, even if life is predetermined, even if free will and control are technically delusions. But if true that everything is predetermined, how absurd that the winners feel so entitled? The winner blames the loser for his bad decisions, makes no effort to guide or equalize. If we all helped each other, loved each other, that would be the ONLY good decision ever made.

nope. none of what you said is inferring from the statements i made. they're guesses.

you still havent explained the connection between my sole statement of 'So desperate to avoid the fact you're alone because of choices that you make' to the statement that u/genetically_cursed made, inferring that i believe i deserve what i have. neither he (?) nor you have answered that.

that being said, i admire the effort you've gone to on this post.

Lol yeah it took me some time and i did some hard thinkin. The connection isn't that obtuse here. If someone is alone because of choices they make (op is desperate to avoid this Fact), then the choices a person makes determine whether a person will be alone or not. being alone is contingent on choices. if you make the wrong choices, you will be alone. If you make correct choices, you will not be alone.

Reasonable Connection: if you are alone, you made choices and therefore deserve to be alone.

Let me ask you this and then no connection need be made bc you could establish your position clearly. Are ppl responsible for their choices? Do ppl deserve what they get?

Where is the link? You are avoiding answering my question

The link is in the word choice. Answer my questions, or are you avoiding them

Bravo. That's some lovely dodging there.

Answer my question specifically and I'll answer yours specifically

again, how?

you didn't say that.

you said that i implied that i deserve what i had. i'd like to know how i implied that

come on. still waiting

Life is not fair and if I wouldn't believe in God I would believe in determinism but I think we have free will and should aspire to make the best out of our situation. Sure some people are born in very shitty situations for some reason.

Damn. If there is a god then he is fundamentally unjust.

this is mostly true, but i'd still carve out a small sliver (like 2%) to personal choice. for big life decisions, even though most doors are shut due to circumstances OP outlined, we still have a choice in what to do with our lives and how to use our free time. being an incel doesn't automatically exclude us from being productive members of society and extracting a bit of joy from our distractions.

You honestly need to take responsibility for yourself. You can’t just give up and blame externalities. Literally everyone on this planet has something to give and something to repair. You are just giving up by viewing this in a really skewed way, even if you have pieces of objective thoughts in your post.

I grew up in a broke, uneducated, divorced household. My mom worked nights too, so I spent my childhood basically only seeing family on the weekends. Still ended up "normie" and being the first person ever in my family to go to college.

Having a good upbringing helps, but I don't see a poor upbringing as much of an excuse either. It's definitely not something that's "inescapable".

That’s because it was determined moron

I'm not sure what you're referring to as being determined. Plenty of people succeed with no support, and plenty of people underachieve with great support. To act like someone has no influence on their own life is just cope for failure.

You people have a big problem with rigidity of mind. I'm sure many of you have bigger problems too, but I see very young people on here, 17 and 18 year olds. There is no way many of you are 'incels' yet.

Everything the OP says here is true. Kind of. So fucking what?

1. Work out if you have depression. If you do, then you have to see your life through that lense. It's not (necesarily) going away and antidepressants don't work. You are going to have to live with it. Try reading Lost Connections for a different perspective on depression.
2. There are no Chads, Stacies, normies or outcasts. There is just you, and 6 billion other poor fuckers living in their own delusion. No one has a number. You don't have a number.
3. Work out what you want. Work out if it's realistic. If it's not, discard it, you can't have it unlucky for you. Work out something else you want. Repeat process til you find something obtainable that you want. Think about what the consequences will be if you get it. Can you deal with them? Try and get it.

If you hate life, the world and society, well duh. You want a fuvking cookie?! Society fucks a lot of people over in a lot of ways women are just people, and men who have or have had or a confidentish that they will again have sex are just people too. Get over yourself.

No cheating. Get what you can.

Your comment about Real Madrid is telling. Stop dreaming about the unobtainable shit society sells us. You like playing football play football, you are never going to play for Real Madrid- that really is a genetic (And other kinds of ) lottery. Get what you can get or stop moaning. It's the same for everybody