This is something I noticed before even knowing about the blackpill. They just want you to be the biggest spineless bitch possible. Those MRAGGGANfiance parody posts bbw_gaming keeps removing because she's a dumb cunt are spot on.

Sex is not sacred, its only evil when they use this leverage to suck resources out of you

Idk how many % of capitalist consumerism runs on the femoides desire for validation

And why would the manosphere teach you that particular definition of security? Maybe it has something to do with how they throw the word cuck around like it's punctuation

implying the manosphere is bad

If you didn't emasculate men for these last 50 years the manosphere wouldn't exist dumb women

It hasn't been 50 years otherwise there would have been complaints way longer ago.

And you also wouldn't have all these women slandered as gold diggers when 50 years ago it was the social norm for a woman to be. As and women begin to gain more and more independence, first political then financial, freeing them to choose men based less and less on wealth status you guys attack the very rights they have to NOT have to be gold digger and try to claim that it just then be even more rigged now because "they're all chasing Chad"

Except when they're not you default back to accusing them of being gold diggers some more.

It hasn't been 50 years otherwise there would have been complaints way longer ago.

Boomer had everything, why would these fat sack of shit complain ?

And you also wouldn't have all these women slandered as gold diggers when 50 years ago it was the social norm for a woman to be. As women begin to gain more and more independence, first political then financial, freeing them to choose men based less and less on wealth status

AND MORE AND MORE ON ATTRACTIVENESS ALONE, at least before if you had a normal jobs you had a quite """"loyal""""" women, while now they all want chad.

it just then be even more rigged now because "they're all chasing Chad"

They are chasing either Chad or very rich guy.

It hasn't been 50 years otherwise there would have been complaints way longer ago.

Boomer had everything, why would these fat sack of shit complain ?

They HAD everything. They were in top and now the playing field is leveling off. They were the ones who were hit by women's lib the hardest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/03/27/divorce-is-actually-on-the-rise-and-its-the-baby-boomers-fault/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.831e37cb37ee

See?

Theyre also the ones who were used to lording over women with money and status and are ones who were beta bux and are now getting divorce raped and metood.

And you also wouldn't have all these women slandered as gold diggers when 50 years ago it was the social norm for a woman to be. As women begin to gain more and more independence, first political then financial, freeing them to choose men based less and less on wealth status

AND MORE AND MORE ON ATTRACTIVENESS ALONE, at least before if you had a normal jobs you had a quite """"loyal""""" women, while now they all want chad.

If that were the case the vast majority of men would be having issues.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/science/millennials-sex.html?referer=https://www.bing.com/search?q=millenials+having.sex.&PC=SMSM&FORM=MBDPSB

http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/09/06/men-more-likely-to-marry-up-as-women-become-more-highly-educated.html

Not too shabby.

What's the only way the boomers could convince the next generations that the game is rigged when it's the least rigged it's ever been? Of course they have to claim it's all just looks. They can't admit that they're just scumbags, in fact they are even trying their hardest to convince everyone that women just like assholes, again by cherry picking from the infinite availability of options on the internet. And again if that were true wouldn't most normies know it?

The sad thing is that normies in general are poorer and lower status than ever and were still doing fine. In fact many of us are doing way better than we would have in the past due to the fact that we don't have the pressure to be sole provider anymore.

it just then be even more rigged now because "they're all chasing Chad"

They are chasing either Chad or very rich guy.

Nope. Again if that were true we'd all be struggling but incels are as rare as rich guys and Chad

Hard disagree- being secure in relationship= not worrying about what your partner does because you know they won’t cheat on you. In my opinion it makes no sense to be insecure as if someone going to cheat you’re not going to stop them by being a little bitch about it/ insecure the whole time- if it happens it happens just dump them and move on. From my observations being insecure is definitely a ‘beta’ trait which comes hand in hand with low self esteem etc

Hahaha that does sound quite tragic but I’ve never seen that happen before in real life. Alternative solution- have a girl that cares for and respects you enough that they won’t cheat?

I think you need to get out more then, from first hand experience and others I know this to be true

I think you need to get out more then, from first hand experience and others I know this to be true. Obviously there are people who cheat etc but I don’t think the incidence is as high as you think

Define mentally? If you mean emotional cheating the same thing to what I’ve said above applies- if you mean checking out guys I don’t know maybe- but then I’ve dated girls and told them oh so and so is pretty hot or we’ve agreed certain girls are good looking etc, idc if this is done the other way round as appreciating an attractive person isn’t the same as lusting after them/ wanting to be with them. Again I think this comes down to confidence/security that they aren’t going to leave you/go and bang this person. I.e if my gf found brad Pitt attractive and vocalised it I wouldn’t care because I know that at the end of the day if he asked to fuck her she would say no. Aesthetic appreciation is not the same as cheating as it’s like a straight guy seeing a picture of a muscular guy and thinking he has a good/impressive body: it doesn’t mean he wants to bone him.

No emotional cheating I define as interacting with someone (although not sexually) in such a way where there is obvious feelings between the two whilst in a relationship. So by your logic does this mean you think watching porn is effectively cheating in a relationship?

I mean I think that’s a bit of a leap... Ok so assuming no double standards in definitions of cheating in a relationship, is a man cheating if he watches porn?

Sort of agree with the first bit. Not sure that any girl would cheat on someone because of porn though, more than likely they’d have a discussion about it and work out their boundaries, I know a friend of a friends gf said he wasn’t allowed to watch game of thrones because to similar to porn and that is laughable in my opinion. I do agree porn is bad as it does desensitise people to sex in general. Your replies are making me think you have unreasonably high standards here though in the sense your practically saying in relationships woman aren’t even allowed to look at another male if they are attractive- although blatantly ogling another man, especially when with their partner is definitely disrespectful. There is definitely a disconnect between think someone looks good/ aesthetically pleasing and being attracted to someone, don’t you think? Some examples of this disconnect: A model that is known to be v conceited or Someone of gender you aren’t attracted to who is pretty much objectively good looking, Friend of gender you are attracted to but have no interest further than that.

Would you accept that maybe you don’t experience this disconnect as much as you have less exposure to actually speaking to woman?

Don’t know how to quote on reddit too much of a normie for that so apologies in advance. With the models they are still aesthetically pleasing, would you not acknowledge that? Under standard definitions of a word this would make this at least an attractive feature. I think maybe with this whole argument we fundamentally disagree in the sense that you are saying someone is attractive only if you like them all so looks and personality whereas I’m saying you can appreciate looks as a more detached aspect and just appreciate them as nice or good thereby it is not a form of cheating. Yours, on the other hand, you could argue is a form of cheating as if you are finding them in their entirety attractive you are far more likely to cheat with them?

Opposite sex friendships: disagree with the idea they are a fake concept, what about if both are in relationships but think the other is attractive but have no interest in further pursuing? Or find one another attractive but are not the ‘type’ looks wise or personality wise that they would go for? Again I can provide anecdotal evidence but I feel like that isn’t much good.

In regards to any social interaction- there is no objectivity in observations- at best you will get a vague inter subjective ‘objectivity’ further muddied by the interpreter’s subjective opinion of whatever is being examined. Therefore at least experiencing things first hand rather than anecdotes or stories reduces some part of this subjectivity at least.

What do you define as orbiting? Do you think it is possible to enjoy company of the other gender without wanting to bang them- remember this is 50% of people on earth? Does this mean bisexual people in a relationship can only have ugly friends? Curious about your answer is to that one. Personally I enjoy interacting with people due to particular characteristics they have I.e similar sense of humour. If they are a girl and are attractive this doesn’t mean I am going to want to bang them or make them my gf for a few reasons. 1) just banging a girl would make it awkward with them and someone is probably going to catch feelings and it’ll be messy/ ruin the friendship 2) they might have characteristics I appreciate in a friend but not in a partner 3)might have different/conflicting ambitions in life Also will say as a side note: it is great to have girls as friends as it gives you more of an insight into how they think and can help you with relationship stuff.

Historians have the advantage of hindsight and being able to examine the build up to and after effects of events. In history there is still not a clear answer/consensus on a lot of things anyway. Also the people who do make consensus have had a rigorous undertaking in their subject and are some of the most informed in the world with regards to it- not speculating on a reddit forum. With scientists and mice, mice have far simpler social interactions than human. As human, who have far more sophisticated abilities in this regard it makes them qualified to build a concrete understanding of this. Not to mention in our case you definitely have a particular bias/emotional viewpoint that comes with being an incel (and I have my bias from my experiences as well) Are you saying that YOU have rigorously academically studied human interaction or have some obvious advantage over a typical human I.e social sophistication over then comparable to the difference between a mouse and a typical human? If not, I’m not sure how you can say your view is more objective or superior to others. I take it in this your argument you are considering the ‘normie’ the mouse or peasant. Your observation is not objective it is inherently bias (as is everyone’s). If you and I observed the same event there is no doubt we would not take the same things from it. The closest thing to an objective view would most likely be to collate a very large samples size’s observation (using a questionnaire maybe with multiple choice) on the same event and formulate the median or some kind of mean given social realities are defined by what the majority thinks most of the time. Of course there are other aspects such as evolutionary psychology/biology which I have noticed that incels in general appear to think they are better informed than what they really are at.

I’m going to ignore all the top bits as it’s clear we’re going to disagree on that- although your response to the bisexual bit did make me laugh.

As to your last point, how can you hope to interpret these events if you are not well versed in social interaction? Also I am just going to assume I am socially involved with more people than you, apologies if I am wrong: surely this also exposes me to more secondhand experiences than you for me to observe and form judgements on? Do you not think that spending time in what is effectively an echo chamber of ideas will not affect your views more than someone like me who actively seeks challenging viewpoints? Also I suppose from your perspective I exhibit ‘chad like’ behaviour in the sense I have had multiple sexual partners, have a gf, and friends that are girls etc- so why would I be ignoring information that if anything would probably give me an ego boost? 10/10 think that reading a book like how to win friends and influence people and exposing yourself to larger social circles will help you stop being incel over getting a shower or whatever everyone else recommends

What? I mean this is literally a pseudonym on the Internet- you don’t know who I am and I’m not trying to show off? You’ve got some serious arrogance there- if you are so excellent at analysing social conventions etc why haven’t you used this to your advantage to become popular and get girls? Is it not more reasonable to think you don’t and that is why this is not the case? Surely it would be to your advantage to at least keep an open mind to people who may have this ability and have use it to there advantage?

I find it interesting that you cannot admit that you yourself might have a bias. I agree there is certainly a superficial element to human interaction and an often unconscious bias to more attractive people. However, the resentment, that you hold for woman for example highlights that you do hold a bias. I also think you are confused about what objective means. I would suggest that what you see is a result of your bias, namely half truths, pseudoscience and poor social skills. There is some truth in what you believe but your unwillingness to listen to people who are not also incel means you have a very skewed viewpoint. As a social person I will also have these ‘undertones’ in my head too so if anything I am more qualified to speak on them. Also insecurity doesn’t come from other people, they can think what they want but why should that matter to you? I feel like our debate has pretty much come to an end but thanks I think I understand this subreddit a bit more.

my experiences are valid but yours arent, teehee

He is stating things as if they are always this way implicating it is effectively a ‘law’ of social interaction. ‘Laws’ have no exceptions unless mentioned/accounted for in description of said law. One example of exception breaks law/shows to be incorrect regardless of how many experiences fit this. Your reply= low iq and not constructive ad hominem that does not add to the debate.

he never stated that it is always that way.

he said

I've never seen that happen in real life either

and you said

but I’ve never seen that happen before in real life.

so what are you referring to dumbass?

Alternative solution- have a girl that cares for and respects you enough that they won’t cheat?

"Just be a Chad bro"

Haha sorry don’t mean it like that! What I mean is if you have a strong emotional connection and satisfying relationship with someone odds are both sides are far less likely to cheat. I didn’t mean alternative solution as in ‘this is what you should do’, I meant the alternative to your suggestion that girls convince partner to enter open relationships so they can sleep around as your suggestion is far far less commonplace Also I don’t want you to think I’m attacking you with anything I’m saying- as you’ve seen I’m new to the subreddit and I learn by debating. I’m not part of incel tears or anything like that

Shut the fuck up you fucking idiot.

Incel-to-English Translation: Stop saying things I disagree with

since when did paragraph long platitudes become automatically true? -_-

Since the best rebuttal one could muster is: "Shut the fuck up you fucking idiot."

theres no point in rebutting plattitudes - they've already showcased they arent interested in an honest discussion.

I mean, the poster has much to learn? I agree with that

They aren’t but I don’t think I’m saying anything that’s disagreeable and shut the fuck up isn’t exactly an intelligent response

" I don’t think I’m saying anything that’s disagreeable"

thats the point - we already know what normies are going to say. you're just ruining the quality of the board by stating the same tired platitudes that everyones already heard.

"if you have a strong emotional connection and satisfying relationship with someone odds are both sides are far less likely to cheat"

if you have a lot of money you're far less likely to be poor, its a retarded observation to make. :2

the "strong emotional connection" doesnt come from having a "strong emotional connection" - it comes from having your partner sexually attracted to you.

I’m not on here because I want to change your mind I’m just interested what you guys have to say as only discovered the community recently. I agree your partner has to be sexually attracted to you for an emotional connection to be built but I wasn’t arguing against that. Obviously a superficial attraction is needed at first.

"Obviously a superficial attraction is needed at first."

is it so obvious? :2

regardless, if you agree on at least that point - heres the conclusion: humans are sexually dimorphic as a species, and as with all sexual dimorphic creatures there are certain physical cues that signal high genetic fitness.

in deers you have antlers, in birds you have feathers, in humans you have the jaw :2

theres an objective standard for "beauty" and the proof isnt related to what women say they find attractive - but who they actually sleep with :2

Obviously in the sense that if you are physically repulsed by someone you are not going to want to build an emotional connection with them.

Lol you have quite an obsession with jaws here I must say. But yes some physical traits do show a fitness but human sexual selection is more complicated than that. Realistically long term partners need to be on a similar place in social hierarchy, similar looks level and similar intelligence to be happy. Looks aren’t entirely based on genetics but there are things you can change. As evolution is not really applicable to humans anymore it is more complicated than that though. I would say finding a partner is also a numbers game- approach 10 woman with a 1% chance and you won’t get any, approach 100 and you probably will. Although I agree some women will say they want something and then go for something else I do not think there is an objective beauty standard- the way people perceive attractiveness has a lot to do with upbringing. A 7/10 to one person might be a 10 to others and that is the same with guys opinions of girls too. I don’t really see what that has to do with being incel though? There is basically a 50:50 ratio of girls and guys and there is an equally unattractive girl for every guy out there. You might say they are too unattractive for you but then you are voluntarily celibate not involuntarily.

if it happens it happens just dump them and move on

And that is exactly why as a society we have an 80% divorce rate. If we don't punish and look down on cheating a lot of people will grow to think it is normal. Only a sick, sick society watches on when injustice is done.

Divorce rate is just under 50% in uk which is where I’m from, I don’t think anywhere has a divorce rate of 80% you might want to check your sources there. Cheating tends to come from unaddressed dissatisfaction in a relationship and an inability to address this issue or poor communication skills of what this is. To reduce cheating people need to address underlying issues before it gets to that stage imo. There are already punitive measures in the sense that if someone cheats they are often ostracised, I don’t think anyone does not realise cheating is wrong- unless very socially underdeveloped/immature. I think it would be a massive waste of a country’s resources to introduce punitive laws though and I also don’t think that would stop cheating- people still steal and murder don’t they? People have boundaries in their relationship and for me being cheated on is a line crossed as that is a severe breach of trust so it is understandable why people get divorced or break up in my opinion

Cheating tends to come from unaddressed dissatisfaction in a relationship and an inability to address this issue or poor communication skills of what this is.

JUST COMMUNICATE MORE WITH YOUR WIFE BRO

The moment you have to "communicate with your wife" the relationship is already over.

As TRP succintly put it, you can't negotiate desire.

U wot m8? In relationships little things can build up into big stressors and they’re often avoidable if you talk about it rather than just get angry and don’t tell them- totally unrelated to desire. There are times when there are fundamental differences and break ups are inevitable but if good communication at least this will be realised and won’t be drawn out with cheating etc

Women always cheat, they arent satisfied. They will long for chad, and when they find him, they will look for giga chad.

If you are not a bull in 2018, it is over.

U wot m8? In relationships little things can build up into big stressors and they’re often avoidable if you talk about it rather than just get angry and don’t tell them- totally unrelated to desire. There are times when there are fundamental differences and break ups are inevitable but if good communication at least this will be realised and won’t be drawn out with cheating etc