Seeing a therapist doesn't give you a new personality. And is it someone's fault that they don't have a good personality any more than them being ugly? This whole argument is a cheap shot to make incels look like they have some great moral defect.

Yall just need some confidence showers

Who knew that acknowledging that women don't like short/ugly women is having a bad personality.

There are plenty of short women for short men, but one wants to date ugly people though, male or female. That’s life, get over it. It’s no ones fault our ugly, and it’s not the fault of women that they can’t find you attractive. Nature works like that.

I'm aware, that doesn't mean we can't be upset about it.

Also, it goes to show how clueless you see if you think short women automatically match with short guys. Ask all of the girls who rejected me.

I tried asking out a chick who's about one inch above midget status; got lead on, then rejected.

There is always a chad into her idiosyncracies. We can never compete

Don't be so upset. Bide your time. If they reject you for thst, even if you guys do go out they'll betray you the moment they find someone better. If somebody loves you, they do so deeply

Hollow, hollow words, even if they mean well.

I had a bf once. He was not Chad thundercock. He's so much shorter than me, like 5.4, look like a kid (this is hs btws I'm not a pedophile), not in a cutish way, ugly as hell. But I loved him because he was nice to me and acted like my friend. But it was all a ruse and he left me to die when I needed help the most. So yes, it is better not to love at all than be betrayed by someone you cherish so much.

To come to that conclusion once must have love in your life.

Yes, and i would do anything to not have experienced it, since it caused me everything I've worked my whole life for. He did it just to feed his cruelty, as entertainment. Not all good looking people are bad, and not all ugly people are good. And thank you for being so kind to me. Everybody here had been so angry. You seem like a good guy.

Lmao high school relationships.

So yeah, relationships are not what it's cracked up to be. It's better to focus on yourself than somebody who would watch to fail for fun. Don't be so sex obsessed.

I'll repeat myself again, to understand that one must experience relationships and sex. Your words ring hollow yet again.

Ok. Smart people learn from history, but I guess sometimes making the mistake yourself helps you remember it better. Well if you ever get onto a relationship, remember to watch your back. It sucks to get stabbed there

There are variations of the proverb, one of the variations says that wise people learn from their own mistakes.

Let's just agree to disagree in this regard. And yeah, I know how it is to get backstabbed.

Yeah sorry. I was hoping to let you see how relationships aren't really the be all end all. Thanks for being so nice

We're biologically programmed not to be alone?

We're supposed to be with others as we're social creatures and we're meant to reproduce as we're living beings, it's what we do to sustain life.

It really gets annoying when people say "it's better to be by yourself" or "you don't need relationships" but I understand the sentiment, just don't bs us.

I'm saying that it's better to be alone than with somebody who back stabs you. Being with someone loving is much better, but if they're going to betray you just don't bother.

I am glad that 5'4 guy took advantage of you and then left you to die. I hope this is how you get treated every fucking time.

All the girls who rejected you? How many was that? A real man will get rejected hundreds of times and brush it off. Keep trying, or give up. Your choice, your life.

Well instead of giving in on your dumb exaggerations, I've been rejected about 5 times. .

"KEEP TRYING, COLD SHOWERS, ALPHA MALE,"

Stop please, stop trying to sell me bullshit. Mindlessly running into women and trying to get their numbers is going to fuck up what little confidence I have.

5 times? That's absolutely pathetic. When you have tried 200 times, rethink your strategy, and keep trying. At no point should you give up. Some guys are lucky. You are not one. That's life.

200 times? What?

Yes. If you are as ugly and short as you say...

I used to work for a guy named Sonny. He was an uglier, fatter version of Ron Jeremy (the famous porn star) without the dick.

He always dated hot girls- I mean hot- I never got it. Then he told me it was sheer numbers. He said (literally he told me this, not an anecdote) "I ask out every hot chick I see. Most say no, but if one in a hundred says yes I'm in".

Dude owned a magazine, a porn website, and phone sex line. Came from literally nothing and built his gross little empire. I was head of graphic design if your'e wondering.

Be that dude. Fucking own it.

He was rich, that's why he got the ladies. They didn't care about him as a person, and only dated him to aquire money. It isn't genuine.

This has nothing to do with your awful "try 200 times" argument.

This is so cringe.

Holy shit, you don't get anything.

He wasn't rich and then suddenly got woman. He got rich and laid because the dude wouldn't give up. I hate to say "wouldn't take no for an answer" because of the rapey vibes on this subreddit, but that's the gist.

Look man, the only thing cringe here is you being so fucking pathetic. Why do you even post? Do you want help, or just affirmation you should kill yourself? I'm trying to give you hope and you're acting like a jerk.

Well I find that part about a fat dude getting women without being rich unbelievable, so I'll just assume you're lying to support your argument. Just approching women many times over = getting all of the females.

Ask FAs and Incels who have been rejected 10-40 times. Did "keep trying" help them? No.

"Rapey vibes"

Wtf

I think I'm sick of hearing your stupid "JUZKEEPTRYING" banter. Because it sure as hell ain't gonna work all smoothly.

Fuck off, retard.

Of course you'd find it unbelievable. You wouldn't be here if you actually went out trying to get laid instead of bitching about it on the internet.

10-40 times? Haha, if you give up after that you're doomed to your fate. I'm 6'3", good looking, and married to a fitness model. I've literally been rejected hundreds of times, if not more. Some chicks aren't into me. That's cool. I'm not into all women either. But you don't just give up.

Well I'm 5.'4", a 6/10 and I'm black.

Why don't I just give up? I've talked to women on various occasions, none of them even vaguely showed any interest. Continuously trying just seem like a waste of fucking time. Because believe it or not, girls don't dig short guys.

I'm not a pussy for not trying enough, I'm smart enough to not waste my fucking time with girl after girl, knowing that most if not all of them will reject me.

So you didn't know the guy before he was rich. Got it.

They didn't care about him as a person

ROFL. Hahahahahahaha. You made my day.

TIL a real man doesn't have feelings.

Fuck off with your pua bullshit

Die alone, loser.

Nice, telling someone to die. Shows really what kind of person you are.

Also for the record I'm not an incel and I didn't need to "approach" 100s of girls like a pathetic moron with my exes, so technically you're the loser here.

lol. I've fucked well over a hundred women you twat. It's all about perspective.I finger banged my first girlfriend in 7th grade.

And no, you're not an incel. Looks like you've had one girlfriend. Congratulations, you should totally be giving advice.

lol. I've fucked well over a hundred women you twat.

Nice, using the number of conquests as an argument. As if that mattered, if anything it makes you look even more pathetic.

I finger banged my first girlfriend in 7th grade.

Trying to brag about something that no one cares about, shows how insecure you are.

Looks like you've had one girlfriend.

I appreciate the effort you've put to do some research about me. Wrong again, not just one but nice try

Looks like you've had one girlfriend.

Yep, cause people would rather listen to a real man with no feelings that uses the number of fucks as an argument.

"No one cares about"

It's LITERALLY ALL YOU LOSERS CARE ABOUT.

This isn't a sub for normal people, it's for sexed crazed virgins who can get near an actual pussy.

You have no idea how to speak for a real man...

My wife comes on this sub to laugh at you all... how does that make you feel?

Shut the fuck up, join the human race and try to fit in. Or give up and live as a hermit. Your choice. But nothing is going to change if you sit here complaining.

LITERALLY ALL YOU LOSERS CARE ABOUT.

Don't you who you're talking about but no one cares about that, maybe your wife does.

You have no idea how to speak for a real man...

Back at it again with the real man meme. The real man had sex with a stripper lmfao

My wife comes on this sub to laugh at you all... how does that make you feel?

As if anyone gives a flying fuck about your wife

Shut the fuck up, join the human race

Clearly hit a nerve. "join the human race.

You're either trolling or you clearly are mentally disabled. Actually from your post history it seems like you do have physical disability now, I guess fake it till you make it!!

Would any of you like to help me to properly make an incel character? I'm in creative writing as an elective and the theme was loneliness/fear. I was thinking of making my character an incel but I don't want to mess it up so anyone want to help?

Oh jesus christ. Come talk to the big boys when you grow up.

Who are you even replying to?

I finger banged my first girlfriend in 7th grade.

LMAO

who exactly do you think cares?

i don't think you've had sex with over 1 girl

LOL

I just checked your post history:

see you back on this sub when you realize you're an incel too!

You are a fucking virgin. I can't even imagine being that pathetic. I literally fucked a stripper- while driving on the highway while she straddled me. You will never, ever have that. Deal with it dude. Maybe you could get balls deep in some whale carcass if you comb the beach at sunrise?

you fucked someone you payed? amazing accomplishment LOL

no one cares

go play with your virtual reality

you don't roidmaxx and gym every day just so you can slay.

What a fucking internet nerd. Go play with your fake girlfriend.

what was the implication from quoting that?

Lmao you are full of shit but who cares about how much or how little sex you’ve had. Especially trying to brag over reddit. Sadder then the incels honestly

There are plenty of Asian guys for employers to hire, but no one wants to employ black people though, male or female. That's life, get over it. It's no one's fault you're black, and it's not the fault of businesses that they can't find you employable. That's capitalism, get over it.

For real though, why don't I have a right to complain? I don't hate women for other guys for finding me ugly, I hate society's double standards, and the fact that they claim that all white people are priveliged, yet clearly attractiveness is the biggest privelige. I hate how biasedness against unattractive people is seen as normal, and how much value looks has these days. I hate how racism and sexism is still seen as a much bigger issue than lookism.

Even heightism is somewhat being recognized nowadays, and short guys can still find love, while lookism gets NO attention. Stop saying I don't have the right to complain. I had to develop a good personality to get all the friends I have today, as everyone who first sees me assumes I am dumb, weird, and creepy, before they get to know me. Some of my current friends I've seen laughing about me behind my back before I even met them, and they acted fine once they got to know me, and saw that I wasn't a retarded weirdo (so no its not my toxic personality, despite how angry I seem in this post). Unfortunately, same thing doesn't apply for women, as facial looks will reign above all when she considers her dating options.

I would kill to become a 5'4 Asian/Arab guy with an attractive face, rather than the 5'11 ugly white guy I am, so you are right about height not mattering.

Either way, you seem to agree with "blackpill ideology", so I don't know why you're so mad that we're complaining when you literally agree with us that it's nature, and that ugly people literally can't date anyone. You think not being loved or even liked by the opposite sex for years is something to ignore and accept? Please. It's even worse seeing most of my friends have girlfriends while I rot. Even though most of them aren't lookers, they're at least average/slightly below, so they're much more attractive than me, a literal 2.

inb4 lower ur standards

I find like 90% of girls attractive (at least those in my age range), and am still willing to have sex/date those few who I don't. My standards seem to be naturally low, I've always rated girls higher than everyone else I knew, so no, I don't expect supermodels. It's actually gotten to the point where I am more attracted to average-ish girls because I am slightly more likely to have a shot with them than conventionally attractive ones (0.001% compared to 0%).

Sorry for the rant but complaining is the only thing that makes me feel better, since I don't talk to anyone else about this, save for a couple close friends, and I don't think I should just accept nature and its ways.

There are plenty of short women for short men

That's not how it works.

It's more like, people who pretend no short and ugly people ever meet women and live great lives, are either delusional or dishonest. You're ignoring a lot of obvious data.

People with missing limbs have more positive attitudes and achieve more than they would with this defeatist, blame-everyone-else strategy.

Victim playing instead of willingnesss to take action to manage your own issues is a sign that you might have an unhealthy personality or bad attitude that will get you nowhere.

there aren't enough showers in the world to wash all this toxicity away from my "personality"

Ain't that the truth

And there's the problem

What about cutting it off with 2 or 3 fresh haircuts?

Certainly not with that attitude.

Showers dont get rid of that, you have to do it yourself. Why does everyone think its crazy that a toxic personality is a thing?

So the solution is slavery and sexual subjugation?

I read that in nigahiga’s voice

My therapist told me that my problem is that i am ugly. And short.

Well, at least they didn't give you false hope.

Right. I paid for realism and that is what i got.

Always nice to get your money's worth, lmao.

can I get your therapist? I want to know what the fuck is wrong with me

Some people just don't deserve someone. I don't buy into this whole "it's your personality" bullshit. Some people are just ugly.

why because there aren't equally ugly women?

There are lots of ugly women, but people still want to have sex with them. Every aspect of social and sexual interaction, apart from the act itself which is required for procreation, is a social construct. Of course the idea of deserving something is a social construct. If society deems you undeserving of something, be it because you are ugly, boring, of unwanted for some other reason, then you don't deserve it.

If society deems you undeserving of something

ok point taken, I'm just saying that the more you SAY you deserve something, even though you might not actually deserve it, you actually get closer to changing what society thinks you deserve

it's why politicians say they are winning when they aren't, it creates a positive feedback loop

If they aren't winning they aren't winning. Wishful thinking does not change the votes.

No, what changes votes is having the image of success, maintaining a confident appearance despite your odds. Concealing your mistakes.

Smiling literally makes you happier through a chemical release. Acting generally cheerful in any social environment, despite how unhappy you may feel on a given day, encourages others to interact with you in a positive way that is pretty much guaranteed to bring up your mood. Which is awesome. You probably feel a little happier just from thinking about happiness right now. "Fake it till you make it."

Positive feedback loop.

Yeah that's why Hillary Clinton with her confidence of winning and smiling won lol sure buddy

No man, there are plenty no one would ever sleep with

You can do it!

Every woman I've ever met thinks she is "above average".

Think about that for just one moment. If every woman is above average, then none are.

Millions of women out there that are truly ugly people think they are "pretty" or "cute" because of desperate men giving them attention.

People who don't have a personality, or have a shit personality, generally don't deserve a relationship. And women can probably tell that and avoid them. No matter how ugly or overweight or what have you, if you have a personality that's nice but not overly nice to the point of being kinfa forcefully nice (and annoying), and maybe with a good sense of humor, there's a good chance someone will at least be into you.

I think he means real therapists, not the Monday afternoon lineup at the strip club.

And pathetic apparently

Find a new therapist.

"Short" is such a piss-poor excuse. My boyfriend is 4'11". You're better off just sticking with "ugly".

You got me, Reading this made my blood boil

Because its true?

You know what... This is the advice I needed all along! We're all in this together! Thanks dude!

Whew, you got me. I was this close to removing this post

You guys are toxic as hell, but gotta admit you're pretty hillarious. Why are there no girls into that?

Toxic is such an overused word.

It's Britney Spears fault.

Tee hee

Oh baby can't you see?

you could say it's a toxic word

Come on, even mainstream normies admit that women can't into humor

OK you're getting kinda toxic there buddy. Isn't humor something intrinsic to everyone? Even animals have a sense of humor

YOU GUYTH ARE TOKTHIK TEEE HEEE

Only FAGGOTS use that word to describe anything but literal chemical toxins.

Your behavior right now can be equated to chemical toxin. I'd say it describes you perfectly, faggot or not. I'm not really mad at you guys though. You can be creepy sometimes, but honestly you're just people with a peculiar sense of humor.

Except for the fact that it is not physically harming you.

This is not nearly as upvoted as it should be.

your behavior right now can be equated to chemical toxin

What a bizarre declaration. How do you come to believe something like this? I hereby declare your behavior to be equivalent to a mudslide.

fucking lol

being hillarious is not enough to compensate a hideous face

It'll definitely help.

Women don't care if you're funny, they care if you're attractive and funny.

Why are there no girls into that?

because we don't have the key ingredient.

FACE.

Atleast you're aware they ain't even though they claim they are.

"I love a guy who can make me laugh, TEEHEE"... yeah they'd find even the dumbest jokes funny coming from a Chad.

Yeah but then they don't actually think it's funny. They only act that way to get into his pants. If they pretend to enjoy something they find so vapid and uninteresting every day, they'll Crack eventually.

You just proved his point.

Every single feminine trait is adored, loved, and even fetishized by a (relatively) high percentage of men.  Just go on Tinder as a female with a profile description of "I'm 4 ft 10 in" and wait for an abundance of "I love short girls!" messages to fill your inbox.  Now change it to "5, 11" and all the "I love tall girls!" men will pop out of the woodworks.

Women, on the other hand, aren't even particularly attracted to the average masculine qualities.  No, they are only strongly pulled towards positively associated traits which a minority of men possess (tall, well-defined square-jaw, 8/10 face, fit and muscular with a T-shaped frame, etc).

In other words, females like men who mog other men.

This turns the pursuit of romantic partnership, from a man's perspective, into a game of strategic interactions between competing agents, where each man needs to outdo the other (looks-maxing, money-maxing, personality-maxing, etc) in order to win and maintain a female's affection.

Then females select their partners from the top of these dominance hierarchies.  That is the biological interplay at work.  

Men, by and large, are quite attracted to women as they come, however that may be.  Females are born looks-maxed, personality-maxed, etc in a man's eyes. However, females, they have an inferior ability to possess strong positive feelings towards a man's natural state, and as such, need him to be outstanding.

looksmax

Females are born looks-maxed, personality-maxed, etc in a man's eyes.

It's becoming evident that delving into evopsych is the trait of the simple and stupid. They truly believe they've figured out humanity through their limited perch and share it like only a simpleton would...

Females are born looks-maxed

Minus the makeup, and the hairdoes, and the flattering clothing, and the heels, and the spanx, and the pushup bras, and traditional tools like gurdles.

So ... not at all. You're full of shit. Like everyone pushing evopsych.

Minus the makeup, and the hairdoes, and the flattering clothing, and the heels, and the spanx, and the pushup bras, and traditional tools like gurdles, and the camera angles, and the filters.

Point missed. Even holding all variables as a constant, we see the same dynamics. I've ran experiments with makeupless, bedhaired, plain Janes, and really noticed no difference in interest from males. Rather they all claim they 'love an unconventional girl!' Men have an affinity for a much wider spectrum of physical characteristics, and 'styles'.

Hitchens makes some of the best points on evopsych that I've heard. Not trying to use the 'Hitchens and I share similar beliefs' fallacy to support my earlier statements, but I would wager good money that stood next to him, you are a relative dunce

You’ve ‘ran experiments’? What the fuck are you Dr.Frankenstein? Who says shit like this. Good luck my dude lol you’re gonna need it

Evolutionary psychology isn't full of shit. Internet randos who think they "understand" evolutionary psychology are full of shit. Almost everything I see written about evolutionary psychology on Reddit is complete bullshit. Sometimes people cite studies, but they just don't have the background knowledge to understand what they're reading. They're like people who don't have any understanding of biology or pharmacology trying to diagnose themselves via Internet search. They're completely clueless and are basically just yapping. Actual scholarly articles are fine, but most people aren't qualified to interpret them correctly. I certainly hope this isn't a case of you judging a scholarly field based on what Internet randos say about it and how they interpret it.

Can you please cite your sources for all of your claims on female behavior? Idk why, it could just be a crazy delusions, but I have a feeling that you’re incorrect about your assertions

I see you haven't bothered to educate yourself on attraction. You know these things are studied, right?

But you don't seem like one that cares for honest data, since you seem to ignore the obvious observations that people with these types of problems do just fine in life because they have much healthier attitudes. People with missing limbs and all sorts of challenges do fine. Mediocre looks, ugly/short/fat, or clinically neurotic/shy - can all do just fine and we see this all the time. People can manage their own issues, and therapy is sometimes part of that effort. Few have the no-action, defeatist, just blame others strategy.

Back to attraction: women, as you can see from their mates, aren't as interested in looks. They care about things like humor and success - can you take care of them? Do you work hard? Are you a good person? These things matter, not your random take on attraction based on nothing. This is why there are way more short/fat/ugly men with women.

But when you have issues and you don't want to take action, or think life just owes you the most well out together girl out there, it indicates to all that this person has a toxic and lazy attitude , a defeatist, and is unwilling to manage his own issues let alone anyone elses.

Part of being an adult is realizing life isn't a game, all the cards weren't dealt out evenly, but that also doesn't mean you give up and whine especially when people with far worse issues than yours don't and end up doing much better than you are.

just lol at all the normies upvoting it missing the satire

Satire is a very strong word for the incredibly low-effort that was put into this.

Please kindly eat shit, normie scum.

At least he is getting laid.

We actually don't know that for certain but even if he does - he can still eat shit.

For all you know, that might be his kink.

True, actually.

2grills,1cpu

Some kind of torture porn for hardware engineers?

/s

lmaooooooooooo

[deleted]

So give up? I don’t see how that is the answer. Stop generalizing women. Pro tip: women and men are attracted to people who can better their lives. So: Fake it until you make it. Convince yourself and those around you that you’re unstoppable. That’s how my fat ugly boss made it. Not an easy task, but not impossible. Go for it man. The world is yours. Be positive.

Fake it until you make it.

Start a relationship with someone by being someone completely different. I'm not an incel by any means but this is shit advice.

No, start your life. Walking around telling every one you're a loser is not helping.

I’m in a relationship currently. It’s not because I pretended to be someone else. It’s because she likes who I actually am. Those things will help, but “fake it till you make it” is shit advice.

His advice wasn't for people like you and me, but for people victimizing themselves over their look.

No one is telling you to pretend to be someone else, in any sense whatsoever.

That's your own twisting or inability of understand things you're reading perhaps.

Fake it until you make it just meant to not sit around telling everyone how shitty your life is, act appropriately despite how shitty your life may feel to you. Same deal with a job interview - be the man you want to be, don't start sobbing about how you suck in the middle of it.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

But who knows maybe they mean start a new secret life as a double agent??

This seems like a comprehension struggle you're having more than anything else.

Fake it until you make it is a super common phrase about confidence. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have, etc.

It doesn't mean go out and become a con artist or start printing fkae money or anything else you might want to stretch it to lol

Positivism is dreck. Utter, utter dreck.

Then die alone, loser.

We all will essentially die alone. Up yours, faggot.

No, some die surrounded by loved ones as I will. Hell, I went in for surgery and had 20 family members wait the whole time. My wife slept in the hospital with me for the whole stay.

Sucks to be you.

Good for you, I guess.

Such a great personality on you.

Be positive.

Holy fucking shit the irony. If your (((TOXIC))) personality proves anything it's that being positive doesn't mean shit. The ass backwards mindset the average human is capable of having is disturbing.

Being positive is toxic? Yeah, no. That's pretty much the only way to get off the bottom- which you all claim to be on.

No one will EVER see the good in you if you don't show them. You an anti-social anime lover? Learn to draw (it's not that hard) and come up with come anime superhero who is the voice for the unspoken downtrodden. Not a simple four panel comic about complaining- but what YOU would want to see happen for people like you. An underdog hero. Or do it as slam poetry. Youtube clips.

take your voice and make it heard. This is not the place to do it.

Are you blind? I didn't say being positive is toxic. The point of my comment was to prove you are not positive yet you still succeed with relationships. Look at your comments. They're not positive.

Is this your amazing personality on display?

That would be me getting sick an tired of coming in here and getting attacked for trying to help. Maybe you all should make this sub private instead of looking like you want help, then turning into complete fucking assholes.

I'm done with this sub, seriously, I could care less if you all want to be complete forever alone douche bags.

It’s obvious the people in here don’t want help. They want to vent and complain. I don’t think the desire to help anonymous internet strangers is the real reason we come to this sub. Maybe it just feels good to vent at others without repercussions, no? Why else would you post what you did?

I don't know if I'd call it venting and complaining. They are extremely misogynistic, rapey vibe assholes.

A few of them didn't seem so bad, so you offer some advice and get attacked. My wife thought the same thing and got down voted and attacked because she thought a woman's view might be something they wanted. They told her "There are no Stacy's on reddit". Seriously, that's what they think. I told her just to make fun of them.

So, now the only reason I come here is to ridicule them for being complete losers. I don't like these people anymore than they like themselves.

LOL @ the upvotes, you can tell IT didn't read the fucking post

Wow...

I went to sleep and this shitpost got hundreds of upvotes over night. Normies are literally braindead, they don't even bother reading posts LMAO, why would anyone take anything they say seriously? Like actually low iq

It doesn't seem like satire since it's true though.

I have seen a therapist and they gave me a list of disorders that I have. I have tried so hard to be a normal person but it never works because of how inhibited I am. My masculinity, self esteem, and sense of self worth have been deconstructed thoroughly and are simply nonexistent anymore. I don't even bother trying anymore, I just wallow in my own filth and escapist entertainment trying to find a reason to continue living with the fact that I'm worthless to the rest of the world and worthless to myself.

When I talk about I just get told it's my fault, that I'm not trying hard enough, it's not this this and that, and that everyone else around me is doing better.

Im sorry man, be strong

I hope that you are able to become normal one day :(

Welcome to the club, brother, it gets tougher with each passing year.

Sounds like me.

have you tried eating a bunch of xanax and not giving a fuck

Maybe do more than cheap and easy entertainment.

Most people derive social concidence through personal success. So are you as physically fit as can be? Killing it in business or career? Maybe there's work to out in to get there, like going back to school? That's ok. If you're doing well in both these areas you will feel more confident and masculine. Neither are out of reach - look around, it's not everyone, but there are millions of berry fit people. And tons impressing others with their hard work in their career. It's doable for you too.

And maybe consider seeing another therapist if you don't like the first one. Mental health isn't easy, and it definitely takes effort - but people with the most severe problems can learn to manage them and do well in life.

We need to build time machines to go back in time and not be bullied.

I, uh, have some bad news for you about history in general...

You would be slaves or freaks displayed in a freak show back in the day. You are garbage in every possible time frame

people like you are pieces of shit.

If you have a time machine, you can use your ability to manipulate history to attain complete control over all of humanity, including the moids.

1. Wake up everyday 4:30AM, exercise like a madman for minimum 2 hours.

2. Cold shower 6:30AM to 7:00AM minimum.

3. Spend at least one hour getting ready, perfectly matched clothing and styles/colours that go well together.

4. Minimum 30 minutes doing your hair to get the style on point without a hair out of place.

5. Step out into the world and still be ignored. LDAR in your office toilets at all that wasted time and go back to one shower a week, no exercise, full fap mode.

Doing your hair for 30 minutes is gay. Women sense that plus it's obvious too much effort was put into it.

Wtf first he doesn’t shower enough now he showers too much just wtf

Jesus Christ just comb it, maybe slap some pomade or gel in there to style it. My hair is literally the same as a sheep, and I still make it look good.

Did you really take that post seriously?

Here you can have a serious reply then, some Chads take a long time to do their hair every day, you might think it's a case of running their hands through their hair once and it sits in place perfectly but that's only the case for the top tier Chads. It's only too much effort if you're ogre tier, Chad still needs to compete with other Chads and it's obvious how big the male hair grooming business is these days.

Yeah I did because I know a couple of very attractive guys who do it and it's very obvious and they get mixed reviews at best.

And how are your reviews

From what I can tell they are mixed too. I'm far from a girl's wet dream of course but when I'm dating someone, I suddenly become a lot more attractive. Same goes for a lot of average men for that matter.

Didn't know I was a top tier Chad ... And I thought I was ugly, now where the fuck are those women that go for me?

virgin lol

one shower a week

Charming.

Furiously masturbating doesnt count as exercise. Highly doubt everything you wrote from point 1 onwards.

Step 1: workout for 2 hours

....

Step 5: ....go back to no exercise

You know that’s not how that works right? Exercise has to be a regular habit to actually get results, like months of habit to really see outward effects/other people noticing. Giving up because no one noticed after you worked out for a week is self-defeating.

If your comment was supposed to be sarcastic, I apologize.

and toxic personality stems from bad looksnegative reincforcement from others

Just fucking lol at normies upvoting

Just fucking lol at incels dwelling in self-pity instead of working to get a gf, he/she complains.

Just fucking lol at not recognising that some people, although sociable well liked and successful, are just not attractive enough to find willing romantic partners.

If a fat beluga whale guys can get a gf, what makes incel can't? Well solely because whenever incels speak to a girl, they went like " Heh heh you're so beautiful, i wanna lick you and nail on the bed." Incels needs to watch romantic movies to learn how to get close to woman. Yes a lot of times its about the face, like me I'm not good looking. But for people like us, it takes time to get a gf. And when we do, its a genuine one that will sticks not hoes.

Well solely because whenever incels speak to a girl, they went like " Heh heh you're so beautiful, i wanna lick you and nail on the bed."

Er, no.

"Willing" Shiver

Looks play a huge part, but personality does help. Pretending it doesn't isn't going to help anyone, and you need a good one if you're not a model or rich. Im not a model or rich... Im actually short (5'4") and dont have a strong jawline but i can grow a beard (def helps) and know how to act in social situations (helps even more). Im actually very introverted as well, but I have never had issues dating ever in my life.

My friend is ugly and fat and he found an equally ugly and fat wife online. I have another ugly and fat friend who refuses to do online dating, doesn’t leave his house, and then gets angry that women don’t want to date him.

I know a few people like that as well. Knowing your league is important, but just like the lotto, you can't win if you dont play

Sometimes if your league is too much of a shit show you'd just rather not play. I only came here to see what this was about, not an incel by any means.

Sometimes if your league is too much of a shit show you'd just rather not play.

Which is fair, provided you don't hate women/society for the fact you can't fuck 9/10s.

Most 9/10 women take advantage of the current state of society in the U.S and aren't typically all too faithful anyways, and generally speaking if you just want to be one of their hook ups just gain some status, if your looks and charm can't get it done then try to become someone they envy, plenty of ugly celebrities etc rich business guys that break off 10/10 regularly despite being ugly. I knew a guy who worked for Halliburton that was in his 40's and he just dropped money on girls and was constantly taking home 8/10 or better girls that were 18 or 19.

/u/Salvador66 this guy is your height and fucks

so do i man, not surprised he does to

i was actually talking to him, cause he doesn't, tell him your height is okay

How does he? I wonder how he looks like. Anyways, am I mentalcel to you?

nope, but maybe it's not over

It's over. Why bother, trying?

Pretending you don't see the obvious data that very ugly, fat, and short people get married, have kids, and live good lives is disingenuous.

The same is true for incredibly socially awkward, neurotic, and shy people. People have these problem to clinical levels and learn to manage them. It takes effort, not victim playing to justify putting in no effort.

True, I'm tall and rather good looking (at least that's what I get told), but I had a lot of problems with girls. I had a phase were I had a pretty bad personality and was fucking awkward (looking back at it) as I grew older I realised this and changed something about it, now I'm pretty successful at talking to women

bro take a shower

The most stupid posts here get the most upvotes

This sub constitutes most of the stupidity

It's a weird combination out of a satire thread normies upvoting seriously and incels upvoting ironically.

The first two sentences of the title are correct.

so are the other two

Why can't you guys admit that you have shit social skills and suck at talking to people? Lol

You say that after 2 minutes on this subreddit ignoring a shitton of incels that talk about their autism and poor social skills? Lol

That's fine. Blame that then. Not looks. Because that's what it really is.

I think the question you need to ask is if the best these men can get are some chubby, overweight women, then they're probably better off just being single.

That’s precisely the problem, incels are incredibly picky but can’t see through their own logic

Not wanting a girl who's a fat ass is not picky. You act like being not fat and having medium-long length hair makes a girl insanely highly rated, even though that's pretty much the default appearance of women for the vast majority of human history.

I agree it’s okay to find overweight people not as attractive, or not wanting to date them. I see it more as they don’t care about themselves as much as I would hope the person id be in a relationship with, would.

That being said it’s only true when you hold yourself to that same standard, otherwise you’re just a jerk.

You're missing the point. Oftentimes brigaders from IT say the men here should just "lower their standards". Then, eventually, some incel here who's in decent shape himself points out that they went for some less attractive woman and describes her — the IT brigaders will literally say something like, "Oh look, she's thin and has long hair", even though the girl might actually be chunky and above-average in body fat percentage.

I guess the point of the matter is most of the brigaders here simply will not accept the fact that women are significantly more selective than men, and they will even perform the utmost mental gymnastics to try to rationalize that not being fat and having longer hair somehow means a girl is an absolute dime.

Ahh ok! This was really my first time checking out the sub so didn’t have context

If you think men are better off staying single than dating some "chubby, overweight women", then why the hell do you expect women to hop all over a overweight mans dick?

a lot of us admit we are shy -shrug-

Whether of not you think shy men deserve a life of loneliness is I guess up to you.

I don't think you deserve a life of loneliness. That's you putting a negative twist on what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you're not willing to step out of your comfort zone and learn to be a little bit less shy, you will be lonely. It's not about deserving anything. I legitimately want everybody to be happy, but you have to take responsibility for your own happiness and not blame factors outside of your control. Anybody can develop better social skills. If you develop good social skills, and you can groom yourself enough to not appear like you completely lack self respect, you can meet attractive women.

Also, just wanna say something about the short thing - I was at a bar last night for St Patty's. This dude there was maybe 5 foot 4 at best. He was a baller ass dancer. Not like hip hop style - like a classy salsa style. Dude was killin it with his gorgeous girlfriend - doing the spinny moves and shit. Not only was it clear as day that she was mad attracted to him, but every girl around them was jealous as hell because of how he was dancing with her.

He was short, skinny, and not super good looking by any means, but he was confident, talented, and was having a ton of fun, and that shit was very attractive to all of the women there.

This right here. Use the best of your skills and approach with confidence (even if you think confidence is impossible, promise, it’s not- work at it 😉) and you will at the least find someone, friends, lovers whatever it is you see as out of reach. Otherwise your just self-defeating, and deluding yourself. There are a lot of fish in the sea, ya know.

There are some people who just aren't good looking enough to be found attractive by women, I haven't had anyone be into me ever and I'm sociable, friendly, people like me etc. It's not like I don't put myself out there generally. Some people are just unattractive, and the sexual market is a free market, there are gonna be some big losers.

I have definitely slept with physically “unattractive” confident people, funny people, interesting people, so.. being physically attractive certainly helps but, there are a lot of other ways to be attractive: dress well, workout, etc

Typically I find good looking people become less good looking as I get to know them. Life is easier for them and they don’t need to foster talents or good social skills. (Often)

Just how ugly are you?

Speaks for itself, I guess? I don't think you necessarily have to be hideous looking, just unattractive, slightly different thing. Like if an adult looked like a 10 year old child, they wouldn't be ugly, but unattractive.

Unattractive guys get women, though. Most men are somewhat ugly.

I have literally seen a guy without arms and legs with a below average face with a girlfriend and a baby. There is hope.

I get Epictetus vibes from this thank you

"Omg just learn to be less shy"

Autistic poster here.

You know what annoys me? If women have social anxiety or autism or some other mental health problems their girl friends all flock to them to give them comfort and help and call them 'beautiful' and 'amazing' and shit. If guys have it, other guys don't really give a shit and they're left to fend for themselves. This kills the self esteem.

So when the thing that really pisses me off, like when people say to me "oh just be less shy", happens, I get really fucking annoyed that you are basically assuming I can just flick a switch in my head and force myself outside of my comfort zone to be happy. Ive dated people and been fucking miserable constantly worrying about how to keep them happy. I'm not looking for a girlfriend anymore, I'm looking for a soul mate who can actually put up with my problems and not leave me for being incapable of "just stopping" my illness.

But hey, as long as women with this problem get help and can date guys because they're less judgemental about this shit society is fine right? Right???

“If you think not having confidence makes a guy unattractive you’re a bitch”

What if I said “if you think not having big guys makes a person unattractive you’re an asshole?”

No, being confident doesn’t make you a good person, but being a good person doesn’t make you attractive, either. But we don’t want to fuck people because of how good or not good they are. You don’t want to fuck a 400 lb woman with three eyes who also happens to help homeless people. You would much rather fuck a hot girl that doesn’t help homeless people.

Women are no different than men in what they want - people they find attractive. They differ in men in what makes them attracted. Men value looks. Women value masculine presence, which consists of confidence, self appreciation, and other things. But unless you, if given the choice, would take the fat chick donating to the homeless over the hot chick that doesn’t, it’s hypocritical to say that women are bad people for doing something no different.

I’m sorry that your autism makes it difficult for you to gain social confidence. I can empathize with you on that. But I don’t think tha bitterness towards women is the correct answer.

Nobody flocks to anyone.

You have a victim complex and are stuck on what you deserve (are entitled to) rather than what YOU can DO about YOUR issues.

If a short person just sat there and said that they deserved to be tall, is there problem or life going to get any better? Nope.

And observationally, we all know people handle such problems and do fine in life. So instead of just feeling bad about yourself, try doing something or seeing a therapist? In other words take action instead of empty complaints and pointing fingers at society.

Look tbh if you really want advice stop going like “-shrug-“

no I don't want advice, because literally everyone is ok with me being shy except women in dating mode

Build friendships then create relationships out of them naturally. Dating and hookups never really worked for me, all of my relationships have been with people who I was good friends with. I know you don’t want advice but I thought I’d offer it

"NO i DONT WANT ADVICE BECAUSE i AM PERFECTLY HAPPY EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE THING WHICH TOTALLY MAKES ME MISERABLE AND AFFECTS EVERYTHING ABOUT MY LIFE."

Women are okay with shy guys who make an effort to overcome that shyness with their partner. You seem like you'd rather make excuses. I'm guessing you're in great shape, have a fantastic career, and are just really the smartest and funniest. I bet you groom and dress well, I bet your posture and attitude is fantastic. Literally your ONLY problem is you're shy, right? Right?

Once you stop acting like a pathetic, poor-me sap, you'll figure out how to put some self-worth in your step.

there

aren't

more

shitty

men

than

shitty

women

there might be even more shitty women than men. shyness was always my biggest problem, but for women in my position with shyness, they have no problem finding a partner

Well yep there’s your problem. It isn’t that you’re shy, it’s that you’re ignorant to the fact YOU are the problem.

everytime someone says that I admin 1 more incel forum and donate $100 more towards AVFM

So purposely make things worse for yourself in echo chambers?

And it's women who are the problem, you say?

public forums with women allowed in them as long as they will be intimate with incels (a lot of them are/ have said they would date incels)

"women in dating mode"? 😂😂 what do you expect? a woman not in dating mode wanting do date you, typing 'shrug' like some 12yo girl?

What does deserving have to do with anything? What are you going out and getting?

Oh. You're shy. Great. I'm lazy. But if I'm hungry I'm going to get off my ass and get some food, not spend my time pondering whether or not lazy people deserve a life of hunger.

To be fair saying "lazy" people deserve to starve isn't really cool either

Nobody is saying you or anyone else "deserves" anything - that's just a weird form of expressing entitlement and being lazy.

People have much worse problems and do fine. The difference is they take action and do not just sit there whining and trying to justify a lack of effort by blaming society.

You're not a slave in the 1800s. You're totally free to take action towards managing your own issues that have nothing to do with anyone else.

Really bizarre to blame society instead of your own inaction when it comes to , for example, dying because you're too lazy or stupid to learn how to eat food. No one deserves to die in car accidents but that can happen when don't pay attention to the road. Duh.

Am shy, have not lived a life of loneliness. Stop blaming the world for your problems, it doesn’t owe you Shit. Be a man, take responsibility for your shortcomings, only then will you be able to improve.

sounds kinda neoliberal tbqh

In the sense that it's based in reality.

It sounds like basic logic that anyone would give you regardless of political party, country, or even year they were born. Pretty straightforward.

I guess it's easier to sit there ans play a victim while not take any action towards managing your own issues.

I'm extremely shy as well. Doesn't change the fact that I'm in a loving relationship though.

Thread necro, I'm sorry.

There's being shy, and there's having no social skills whatsoever, then blaming females for not being attracted to your lack of social skills.

If you're lonely and being shy is the issue, wouldn't working on that be the best method? I've read a few good books that have helped me.

this has nothing to do with being shy...

A lot of people are fat, shy and ugly, and also doing just fine.

Like the title says, maybe you're not being honest with yourself and a therapist is in order?

Instead you're just talking about what you deserve (are entitled to) rather than what YOU can DO about YOUR issues.

because blaming it on looks is much easier than blaming it on a defunct brain

you can get plastic surgery for height and looks, try getting a neurosurgeon to cut out your neurotic, high social withdrawal parts of your brain

People who have those issues to clinically bad level (so far worse than the average in here most likely) manage their issues, grow, get arrived have kids, and live great lives.

The difference is they take action instead of using playing the victim to just sit around and put in no effort towards your own issues.

I admit it though

Ahh ok! This was really my first time checking out the sub so didn’t have context

I used to be angry like you—different reasons but angry nonetheless—so I went to a psychiatrist to fix it. Wanna know what she told me? She said “people are often holding a mirror up when they don’t like something or are angered by it. Let’s say you’re angry about someone because they’re able to manipulate people around them and are unfairly getting things. Maybe it’s not that you’re angry at the action, it’s that you’re angry they’re better at it than you”. I feel like the same applies for you

You’re angry at women because, in your eyes, they view men in the same fetishization that you view women. Women and men want to be loved and that trumps all other desires. Sure we like sex but we want someone to grow old with; a ying and yang sorta thing.

I feel like incels will look at a 10 and say “wow she’s dating a Chad. God they only care about looks, god fml” but that’s all they see. Guess what, women who are super hot are gonna date other people who are super hot; both parties will probably be aware of their attractiveness and will act accordingly.

This is how people in the dating/sex world work: they stay in their range. Most people aren’t attractive or they’re average. That’s why we love hot people because it’s like seeing an endangered animal or bingeing “tour of $65 million mansion” videos on YouTube. We want it but we can’t get it. So, knowing that people stay in their range, why don’t you guys stop trying to find a 10 with the same interests as you and just find someone who has the same interests.

Go on reddit or Facebook pages that interest you—better yet, go to a real world event that interests you—and you’re bound to find someone. Don’t view them as a potential partner who you’re trying to impress. Instead, view them as a potential foe in a Magic the Gathering game, a person to talk about GoT with, an ally in a particular cause/movement...basically like a person with interests, passions, and humanistic qualities, not a walking penis garage.

Hell, if Donald Trump can become President, you guys can get find a girl

I strongly agree with this. Jordan Peterson makes a good point of your fears being represented by a dragon, and your goals being represented by the treasure that it guards. The problem is finding what kind of dragon you're up against, and having the willingness and self awareness to figure out how to defeat it.

potential foe in a Magic the Gathering game

I've been to multiple LGS over years and never once saw a female who wasn't accompanied by her bf or at least one male friend.

Ok it was just an example. I’m basically saying try to meet girls at places you find interesting or who have The same interests as you. I’m also saying that you should view girls in a mentality that isn’t “ooo girl, shall I court thee”.

try to meet girls at places you find interesting or who have The same interests as you.

I just said I never saw a single girl in a MtG event.

There’s more places than MtG to meet someone. If you to any place with the idea “oh I’m gonna find a girl here,” odds are you’re not gonna find one. Go for the experience and if a girl is there, she’s there and try to socialize with her or something

As a girl, environments with this atmosphere definitely scare me away. Something about the whole being viewed as a means to and end thing is seriously off putting as a complex (gay) human being with feelings and aspirations beyond the wants of men in my area.

Humans in general can tell when they aren’t being treated with respect and typically avoid situations that make them feel shitty.

Completely agree. As a gay guy I’ve been in similar situations

Yep, Everything I try to go to an MtG even without my guy friends or gf it's extremely hostile like I'm suddenly the prize for them. Then they get pissy when I get mad and shout that I'm gay in their face and tell me that I'm a bitch. Fuck off.

Jesus that's like a girl going to the ballet to try meet a guy, yeah it's possible but you've reduced your chances as much as possible. You don't have to quit the magic gathering stuff to try develop other more gender neutral hobbies. Expand your interests

I have to say, as a female who plays MTG and local tournaments, I don't like going alone to a new venue because it is intimidating. A lot of the people who play are males, and a lot of them take the game way too seriously, IMO (to me its a game, a fun way to meet folks, and yes I like competing but at the end of the day its a game). If I am going to get yelled at for a misplay by my opponents (read: strangers), rather than politely corrected, I would hope it makes sense as to why I brought a male friend with me. I'm putting myself in a competitive environment where I am outnumbered by dudes who I have never met before.

Fair enough, I have met some obsessive players, especially the ones who have the Black Lotus—I forgot if that’s the name of it. But this is why I listed multiple other places people could go in order to find someone to hangout with. MTG was just an example

Youre good, I get what you are saying! And your advice is absolutely good advice, I was just trying to let other commenters know the perspective of a female, and a possible reason why more females don't play at tournaments.

Have you been mistreated before in those events or you're assuming you would be if you went alone?

I've been treated with condescension and mockery before, and a few times when I won a game I would be name called. Once I was accused of dressing in a low cut shirt to purposely distract other players. I was wearing a regular v neck t-shirt, not super low cut or anything.

I realize this behavior is not exemplary of all MTG play groups/tournaments, but it was enough to turn me off the few establishments in my town.

I am a dude, I went to LARP event that was for "beginners". Saw a someone who happened to be a girl looked super timid and concerned so I suggested 1v1 her away from everyone. This dude comes by and stabs the both of us. He looked so smug about it too just ruined the whole LARP group for me and I never joined again. I feel like the guys who take things way too seriously ruin it for everyone and then wonder, "Why don't females enjoy my hobby?"

So it's not only women who are put off by this attitude.

Very good point!

I have a normal personality, and i never looked for a 10 girl, but im still alone

But do you though.

Hehe, penis garage.

A-fucking-men

Exactly

Honestly, the guys here think of women as slaves. Jesus fuck just go bitch at your mom for some tendies and dewys

Agreed lol.

Yeah I know

So I just supposed that appearances mean absolutely nothing these days, right?

You guys are toxic as hell, but gotta admit you're pretty hillarious. Why are there no girls into that?

Fake it until you make it.

Start a relationship with someone by being someone completely different. I'm not an incel by any means but this is shit advice.

Im sorry man, be strong

I hope that you are able to become normal one day :(

Positivism is dreck. Utter, utter dreck.

Welcome to the club, brother, it gets tougher with each passing year.

Sounds like me.

I agree it’s okay to find overweight people not as attractive, or not wanting to date them. I see it more as they don’t care about themselves as much as I would hope the person id be in a relationship with, would.

That being said it’s only true when you hold yourself to that same standard, otherwise you’re just a jerk.

have you tried eating a bunch of xanax and not giving a fuck

I've been treated with condescension and mockery before, and a few times when I won a game I would be name called. Once I was accused of dressing in a low cut shirt to purposely distract other players. I was wearing a regular v neck t-shirt, not super low cut or anything.

I realize this behavior is not exemplary of all MTG play groups/tournaments, but it was enough to turn me off the few establishments in my town.

so do i man, not surprised he does to

How does he? I wonder how he looks like. Anyways, am I mentalcel to you?

Very good point!

Nobody is saying you or anyone else "deserves" anything - that's just a weird form of expressing entitlement and being lazy.

People have much worse problems and do fine. The difference is they take action and do not just sit there whining and trying to justify a lack of effort by blaming society.

You're not a slave in the 1800s. You're totally free to take action towards managing your own issues that have nothing to do with anyone else.

Really bizarre to blame society instead of your own inaction when it comes to , for example, dying because you're too lazy or stupid to learn how to eat food. No one deserves to die in car accidents but that can happen when don't pay attention to the road. Duh.

Maybe do more than cheap and easy entertainment.

Most people derive social concidence through personal success. So are you as physically fit as can be? Killing it in business or career? Maybe there's work to out in to get there, like going back to school? That's ok. If you're doing well in both these areas you will feel more confident and masculine. Neither are out of reach - look around, it's not everyone, but there are millions of berry fit people. And tons impressing others with their hard work in their career. It's doable for you too.

And maybe consider seeing another therapist if you don't like the first one. Mental health isn't easy, and it definitely takes effort - but people with the most severe problems can learn to manage them and do well in life.