cope

Brilliant meme mate.

i am poor

mexico

In Mexico there is a public health program called "dif",but they have a terrible service, they do not even answer my calls

In what way are you someone I would wish to be like?

I've been in therapy for 6 months and I am still posting here negatively about myaelf. It doesn't work that well.

In fact I have another appointment today.

Therapy only works for social anxiety. It doesn't work if you have depression.

It will also not make you any less ugly.

Doesn't work for social anxiety either..you just sit there and yabber about your problems for an hour..the. its the same thing next week..eventually i just go in and tell them im fixed and therapy is awseome..

If your therapist just has you yapping about your social anxiety to him, you should quickly search for a better one. You need to get out and do shit, humiliate yourself in front of other people, etc. It does work if you have the right therapist.

This guy socializes.

As a high schooler I cringed whenever I did something even vaguely embarrassing in public. As I got older and fucked up worse and worse, I stopped giving a fuck. Now I can chat up just about anyone confidently.

Try dbt or cbt. Talk therapy doesn't have a lot of science behind it. Dbt and cbt do. Especially for depression and anxiety.

Behavioristic therapy is a very dubious approach because it's inherently constructed in such a way that indices of its effectiveness are easily manipulated and negative results are easily handwaved away. I don't doubt it really is effective in helping some people, but I also don't doubt that it's nowhere near the panacea that it's been treated as for the past decade or so. In many situations behaviortistc approaches are little more than conditioning that teaches a person to accept abuse.

It's on fire because it's one of the most effective forms of therapy. Just in terms of people feeling better I mean. Talk therapy and especially psychoanalysis had really bad results with people getting better only after years of therapy. With the behavioral approach people see results in weeks to months.

Not really. It's more like you change your thinking to stop abusing yourself. To change either the obsessive and/or negative thoughts in your head.

Personally I've only been through cbt. Dbt does sound better in that cbt can be pretty brutal. Dbt seems like a softer and more realistic form of cbt in my eyes.

It's on fire because it's one of the most effective forms of therapy

Because it's easy to interpret any application of it as effective, and any blatantly ineffective cases can be just as easily handwaved away.

Just in terms of people feeling better I mean.

Even if that were true, I would argue that short-term mood boosts aren't and shouldn't be the goal of therapy. If you want to make a person "feel better" really really quickly, there are even more effective ways of achieving that, such as heroin.

It's more like you change your thinking to stop abusing yourself.

Yep, which first requires to change your thinking to interpret any abuse as self-abuse, and such conditioning can be applied to any situation. An essentially identical approach is at the core of a lot of LGBT conversion "therapies" for example. In such contexts behavioristic therapies are just a method to force people to conform without any concern for their individuality or long-term well-being.

Back when I was an incel and felt suicidal, I still didn't see CBT or any of its sister approaches as attractive. Sure, I was convinced that a good CBT practitioner would probably allow me to function in day to day life much more stably, but here's the thing - day to day functioning is not the end all be all of my existence that I would pursue at any cost.

Dbt and cbt are forms of talk therapy, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

As compared to talking about your feelings or psychoanalysis.

You also have no idea what psychoanalysis is.

Hahaha sure. You know me so well. I'm not here to pick a fight with you.

I don’t know you at all, but what you’ve written in your comments that I’ve replied to are idiotic.

And you're extremely hostile for no reason at all.

I’m sorry you preceive pointing out how wrong you are as hostile. Perhaps that is something you could work on in therapy.

Lol calling someone's comments idiotic is not hostile? You even add a little jab at the end. That's what they call making it personal. No wonder you're incel. I haven't been to therapy in years. Maybe a decade.

Some good evidence in favor of psychoanalysis

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wps.20267/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpp.1917/full

Some good evidence against

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735811001863

Do you still think me an idiot? I'll assume yes. But my speaking of psychoanalysis in a disparaging way is not completely baseless. There is an ongoing debate about the usefulness of this therapy.

It absolutely helps with depression

Well, depression is caused by external influences (not getting sex, working a shitty job, having no friends, etc.).

A therapist can give you advice on how to solve those issues, but there is no guarantee that you will because it is so dependent on other people giving you the things you lack.

The cure for social anxiety is entirely within and up to you.

Lol, why would I want to cope? That's basically deluding yourself just so you don't kill yourself. If I'm not satisfied with myself, I'm not gona delude myself that I am.

Isn’t this entire sub a cope? You find like-minded people who believe the same things you do, thus reinforcing your perception of reality?

everything is cope

Suicide is the best therapy for Inceldom.

Fuck you, that's a disgusting thing to say.

It's the truth.

What is discusting is the way women treat me.

How do they treat you?

As not boyfriend material

Do you think you are boyfriend material?

What are trying to get at?

I just know a bunch of people in real life who are upset that people won't date them, but they don't tend to invest in themselves and making themselves someone that someone would /want/ to date. I am in no way insinuating this is the case for you, hence why I ask open questions to see your perspective on it.

This is an emergency. I need a girlfriend NOW, or I will die imminently.

I invested a lot into myself but it didn't get me a girlfriend. If you want me to invest more you must tell me EXACTLY how much will get me a girlfriend, otherwise, you're asking me to be your slave.

How have you invested into yourself? And women are individuals with individual taste; if you asked me and my flatmate to describe our ideal guys (which happened actually) we described completely opposite types of dudes. Describe yourself?

How have you invested into yourself?

yes

Describe yourself?

no. good or bad, you'll just find something to criticize me on.

I'm not here to criticise, I'm here as a woman trying to perhaps help as to why you're not being seen as an ideal candidate. I can describe myself if you like, flaws included. This is the internet, if you're self-conscious here, it's a show of insecurity IRL.

The only way you could help is if you introduce me to a woman I’m attracted to who also wants to fuck me. Otherwise, you’re less than useless.

Perhaps the problem is seeing women as only useful to you if they provide sex.

Nope, just that all people are less useful to me because I have most of the problems other than sex already solved, so I don’t need anyone for other reasons that much.

Most people enjoy socialising, and go out of their way to enjoy the company of others. Seeing everyone else in pure terms of resources makes me feel sad for you; yes, everyone views every relationship as transactional in some way, getting something for something, but finding zero joy in anything beyond that calculated benefit indicates something depressing about how you view the world.

Do you game online and use voice? Or have friends you hang out with, or people that you go out of your way to have a conversation with? Sometimes just silly small talk can boost your mood. At work there are a dozen people I love to have a quick chat with, and maintain that relationship. Who knows when you'll need them, and that relationship you've built will come in handy - even if you think about it in terms of resources, cutting everyone off if they don't show IMMEDIATE benefit is not pragmatic and not rational.

Most people enjoy socialising, and go out of their way to enjoy the company of others.

And I am like most people in that way. That's why it is so bad that no one wants me.

Seeing everyone else in pure terms of resources makes me feel sad for you;

I don't see everyone else only in that way. I can't write my life's story in every comment.

but finding zero joy in anything beyond that calculated benefit indicates something depressing about how you view the world.

This will go over your head, but it the marginal joy that is zero. For example, sure, more friends, all else equal, are good. But as you get more and more friends, the value the next friend gives you decreases. Eventually you'll have enough friends, and you'd rather have more of something else. That's where I'm at now. I have enough friends, which is none. For me, the only "friends" I can get aren't valuable enough to want more of them. Sure, there are probably people I'd love to add to my circle of friends if they just came along, but those people don't want to add me as a friend.

Does that sound depressing? I suppose it is a matter of opinion. Regardless of how depressing it sounds to you, that is my objective reality.

Do you game online and use voice? Or have friends you hang out with, or people that you go out of your way to have a conversation with? Sometimes just silly small talk can boost your mood.

Yes and yes, but it isn't enough. Would you give up ever having romantic relationships as long as you could have just conversations? That's what I mean: sure, conversations are good, but they don't replace getting my dick sucked.

Who knows when you'll need them, and that relationship you've built will come in handy

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you're also not addressing my problem. My work relationships can't lead to the kind of relationship that I need; not directly or with one of them introducing me to someone (I already know that route won't work).

That's why I mentioned online gaming - it's low-effort friendships that only have to last a night session or games occasionally when you feel like logging on. Low commitment, instant rewards since you're engaging in an enjoyable past-time.

Being good at conversation and being engaging is how you get your dick sucked. It doesn't happen out of thin air, it's someone finding you interesting enough to want to pleasure you. It's a skill that is practiced and honed over time. Isolating yourself and putting socialisation on the back-burner is going to make you rusty, whereas almost everyone else keeps working at improving. Even if your socialisation stays the same, everyone else is passing you little by little each day. Soft skills matter.

The prevailing theme on this sub seems to be 'if I had a girlfriend/had sex then everything in my life would be better and I would be motivated to do better in other areas of life'. It's putting the cart before the horse. It's like saying once I get a great career job, I'll put the effort into passing my school exams and applying for Uni.

You're thinking short term. I got one of my jobs from the brother of a friend I had years back. My best friend actually recommended me for a job agency, I got on their roster, then found near immediate placement at a good government job I love. I've had work colleagues invite me to events where I have met other people who I stay in touch with and have benefitted my life and vice versa in little ways.

You will never notice all the opportunities you could've had, since the very nature of this means you'll never see them. Networking is a concept for a reason. People know people, and people are far more likely to give you opportunities or invite you out or do things for you if they know you, or know someone who knows you and they've heard good things.

How do you think people get invited to parties or events where they meet someone special, if not networking with friends and coworkers? Sometimes it's the most unlikely connection that will benefit you - this shopkeeper lady I used to chat with as I bought coffee in the mornings before catching the bus ended up walking down the street when I had lost my phone, and she recognised me and helped me call home at like 11pm on a Wednesday. I met my first boyfriend because my friend invited me to play this online Tetris game, and he played it too. Yadda yadda.

You're not giving life any opportunities to send new adventures your way. You either want immediate obvious results, or you've decided it's not worth the effort. That's fine, but you're not playing the odds effectively, and life isn't straightforward like a video game in terms of progression and gaining EXP.

That's why I mentioned online gaming - it's low-effort friendships that only have to last a night session or games occasionally when you feel like logging on. Low commitment, instant rewards since you're engaging in an enjoyable past-time.

OK... so? That's fine. I need a girlfriend.

Being good at conversation and being engaging is how you get your dick sucked.

I already am good at conversation, but I'm not getting my dick sucked. I think your theory is wrong.

Isolating yourself and putting socialisation on the back-burner is going to make you rusty, whereas almost everyone else keeps working at improving.

I'm not isolating myself they're isolating me.

The prevailing theme on this sub seems to be 'if I had a girlfriend/had sex then everything in my life would be better and I would be motivated to do better in other areas of life'.

So, you're saying if we took away someone's girlfriend/having sex, they would preform just as well if not better than they do now?

It's putting the cart before the horse. It's like saying once I get a great career job, I'll put the effort into passing my school exams and applying for Uni.

You don't seem to understand that I was motivated and worked really hard ... but then it didn't pay off. "Fine," I thought, "I'll just keep working hard and eventually it will pay off." It didn't. Over time I became worn down, and I've ended up in places like this one. The source of the problem is not having a girlfriend / sex, and the only solution is getting a girlfriend / sex. If you take any arbitrary person and put them through the same experiences then I think most would also turn out like me.

How do you think people get invited to parties or events where they meet someone special, if not networking with friends and coworkers?

Where are these magical people to network with? I've already surveyed my environment and there is no one.

You're not giving life any opportunities to send new adventures your way.

No, I was and still am, life just isn't sending me opportunities. If you disagree then it is on you to show me the opportunities for a girlfriend / sex that like is giving me.

That's fine, but you're not playing the odds effectively, and life isn't straightforward like a video game in terms of progression and gaining EXP.

Right, so it is hopeless and I should kill myself.

How long did you go before you wrote off the concept as 'not paying off'?

Do you enjoy your life apart from this?

Do you work? Genuine question, no judgement. Coworkers, friends, friends and family of partners or partners of friends and family, acquaintances like at a Church or a social group or a sports team or an old boss you had... social connections are all around you.

Do you join social groups like DND or sports teams? My two best friends met their partners through 'friends of friends' met at social events such as the above.

Life is an odds game, there's no sense in saying it isn't fair; it's really not. You were given certain dice, and you have to throw them and play what you have. There exists a better, more ideal you that was possible to unlock. Same for me. There exist better future you's than your current trajectory, same for me and same for everyone.

It upsets me that you think life isn't worth living if you cannot engage in sexual activity.

How long did you go before you wrote off the concept as 'not paying off'?

Years

Do you enjoy your life apart from this?

Eh, not really. I mean, if you have blood spraying out of your neck, how much can you enjoy other parts of your life?

Do you work?

Yup.

Do you join social groups like DND or sports teams?

Which ones will guarantee me a girlfriend?

Life is an odds game, there's no sense in saying it isn't fair; it's really not.

So, you're saying I should kill myself?

How many years? One of my friends is 23 and she hasn't dated anyone and she's still a virgin, I know others who have been in even their late 20's before they find their first partner.

I hope the blood thing was a metaphor.. right?

There is no guarantee of a girlfriend, because girlfriends are human beings who have their own free will and own desires. You don't get a girlfriend as a freebie for joining a sports team. Neither of my friends went into the social groups expecting a partner, they went for the enjoyment of the hobby and happened to find someone who liked the same thing.

I'm saying that it's no-one else's responsibility to make your life good. If you refuse to put in the effort by insisting that you be guaranteed a girlfriend before you bother doing something, or insisting that unless there are direct and immediate rewards for socialisation it's not worth the effort, then guess what, you're not going to win. It's on you to make your life a good one. Have you?

How many years?

In depends on what you mean by "try."

There is no guarantee of a girlfriend, because girlfriends are human beings who have their own free will and own desires.

Right, so I should kill myself

I'm saying that it's no-one else's responsibility to make your life good.

Right, so I should kill myself

If you refuse to put in the effort by insisting that you be guaranteed a girlfriend before you bother doing something, or insisting that unless there are direct and immediate rewards for socialisation it's not worth the effort, then guess what, you're not going to win.

I did put in the effort, but it didn't get me anything. What socializations will guarantee me a girlfriend? That is for you to prove.

It's on you to make your life a good one. Have you?

Is it? Can I control everyone?

So unless everyone else does the hard yards on your behalf, you're not interested. 10/10 attitude.

Why are you so obsessed with what everyone else is doing? You can't control everyone, but you can control how you react. 90% of life is reacting to what happens. You've chosen to retreat and get bitter.

There is nothing that will guarantee a girlfriend, because women have their own free will. They're not trophies you can 'win', not video games you can have the 'cheat code' for.

How would you even treat a girlfriend once you had one, with this mindset?

So unless everyone else does the hard yards on your behalf, you're not interested. 10/10 attitude.

I already did the "hard yards" and it got me nothing. You are victim blaming. 10/10 attitude.

Why are you so obsessed with what everyone else is doing?

I'm not. I was replying to "It's on you to make your life a good one. Have you?" for me to have a good life I need some people to treat me a certain way, and no one will do that.

You can't control everyone, but you can control how you react.

Now you're saying something different. I can't make my life good, but I can "control" how I react to my shitty life? What the fuck are you talking about?

90% of life is reacting to what happens. You've chosen to retreat and get bitter.

No, they abandoned me. I'm sorry my reports of my life are inconvenient for you, and you have to resort to calling me "bitter." Maybe if your life was as shitty as mine you wouldn't be so quick to judge and victim blame. Instead, you blame me for being abused by others. Is that how you talk to rape victims?

There is nothing that will guarantee a girlfriend, because women have their own free will.

And none of them want me, so I should kill myself. It isn't really suicide because their own free will, their choices, pushed me into a life where the only option is suicide. They could choose differently, but they don't.

How would you even treat a girlfriend once you had one, with this mindset?

I'd treat her well. What kind of question is that?

What has stopped you killing yourself so far? There must be something you're hanging onto or enjoying.

What do you mean by treat her well?

What has stopped you killing yourself so far?

Nothing, I wish I had killed myself years ago.

What do you mean by treat her well?

You asked an unreasonably broad question.

What's stopping you right this moment? There has to be something.

Broad questions are good because the way you approach them and what angle you take tell a lot.

What's stopping you right this moment? There has to be something.

Nothing. I should kill myself right now.

Broad questions are good because the way you approach them and what angle you take tell a lot.

No, I can't write a book in every reddit comment.

I know that feeling rejected for so long must hurt deeply. It's not personal that you haven't been chosen by someone to love, it just hasn't happened. There's a difference. Don't do something you can't take back.

Is sexual contact the only thing you want from a girlfriend?

It's not personal that you haven't been chosen by someone to love, it just hasn't happened. There's a difference.

No, for me, there is no difference.

Don't do something you can't take back.

Time only moves forward. Every moment is something you can't take back.

Is sexual contact the only thing you want from a girlfriend?

Fuck you, you are trying to delay / distract / redirect me. Blocking you now.

Therapy is a waste of money.

You were an incel, took therapy and are still an incel? Not a great endorsement.

To these folks, no.

Don't speak for everyone.

AWALT though, right?

Not really, no. Why?

No, because “not suicidal anymore” isn’t the definition of success.

Consider this thought experiment: we take a happily married man and suddenly make him single. Let’s say that makes him suicidal. Is he just as well off as he was before if we can give him therapy so he’s no longer suicidal anymore? No.

Is he?

He never would have been single and suicidal if we hadn’t made him single. Giving him therapy doesn’t make up for making him single, for taking away his relationship. Therapy doesn’t replace his relationship. In the same way therapy isn’t a solution for being incel. Therapy doesn’t undo the harm that has been done to me by the actions of others rejecting me, of denying me a relationship the same way we denied our hypothetical happily married man.

Maybe he’d be better off killing himself and avoiding his shitty single life. Maybe no longer existing is better than being single and having just enough therapy to manipulate him into not killing himself.

What I need to make me not suicidal is a girlfriend. Anything less than that, and my life is not worth living, and therefore I am suicidal. Therapy can’t get me a girlfriend, so suicide is my only option.

You’re projecting. You’re adding more details to the hypothetical situation that weren’t already there. He could just as well have no chance, or the suffering could be so terrible that a slim chance just isn’t worth it. Or, that there is a 100% chance, but only after 300 years, long after he’s dead.

OK, so you agree that you don't know that it will ever work out for anyone? That there's no guarantee anyone will ever be happy, right?

The only way you'll know you'll never be happy is if you've already died, so there's no point arguing that "no one knows what the future holds." You're making a very basic argument, I'm not interested in writing more. Other people have already written explain how that is a stupid argument.

You're a weird little guy aren't ya? Are you the pathetic you'll kill your self if you can't get a GF? Wtf lol. I bet you tell girls that do they feel pressured to "like" you don't you?

If you think living without a relationship is great, then be single your whole life. Or, are you not willing to do that?

Why would I do that? There's plenty of women out there for me and for you. Do you think not so attractive guys don't have girlfriends or what? Most attractive guys date attractive girls, while most unattractive guys date unattractive girls, this isn't rocket science. Just because girls aren't coming to you doesn't mean no ones ever gonna date you. Clean your self up as much as you can and go out in the world. Whether that be a bar, a gaming event, a concert or even an online site. It doesn't matter, the point is there is plenty of people out there willing to date unattractive guys. Unless you act like a neckbeard or are annoying you'll be able to find someone sooner or later

I already tried what you suggested and it didn’t work. I can’t get a girlfriend like I can’t win the lottery: technically some positive probability it could happen, but not realistic.

So are all unattractive girls single?

I'm a suicidal happily married man. Where do I fit into your scenario?

Why do you want to kill yourself?

It wont last, man. I've been there, done that. An extra 5 years incel will undo the progress you think you've made.

Therapy reshaped my facial bone structure. 10/10 would try again!

I'm waiting for one therapist to admit you're unhappy because of your ugly.

They seriously can't. It's pathetic and a joke.

so you're saying you'd be fine with being perpetually alone, as long as you have ways to cope with it?

This is not some normie shill spouting platitudes.

IS TODAY THE FUCKING WORLD IRONY DAY? SERIOUSLY THIS IS LIKE THE THIRD THREAD

My friend was a 48 year old 5'2" Indian guy and he had trouble finding a woman who wanted to be with him. Do you think he just sat around and complained about it all day? Fuck no. He started CBT, watched Jordan Peterson, and took SSRIs and now he's a tall handsome blonde 20 year old and can get any girl he wants.

You know who the dude is right?

Lol, like once a month will do you any good. You can hardly remember the challenges of the 5 days prior.

No insurance allows once a week sessions for 52 weeks. After the 12th session, you’ll pay out of pocket expenses. That’s insurance for ya, and that’s all insurances.

And most therapists are shit. They don’t make money from helping you, they make money from not helping you. You’re a recurring subscription and that’s what they want.

And let’s not forget that most can’t even put labels on obvious situations. Codependency, NPD, BPD, whatever.

Anything they can’t figure out, they’ll attribute to Social Anxiety and recommend some fucked up drug like Lorazepam, requiring you to come in even more frequently with even more out-of-pocket expenses, turning you into an even better recurring subscription.

You’re just $$ symbols and a resume builder at that point.

they also give you worse advice than friends

Where do you live/ what insurance do you have? I saw a psychiatrist every week for years and the copay was $23 a visit.

Therapy is a scam

Involuntary celibacy is a scam. Therapy is real.

Really happy for you dude, therapy helped me through a tough time a couple of years ago and I'm glad it's doing the same for you. It really warmed my heart to see your flair change from "roping soon" to "hopeful for change". Keep at it, and don't let the bitterness of this sub keep you down.

What makes me upset is IT-like people saying things like we don't try, give conflicting advice while moving goalposts, say things like we're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, just world fallacies etc.

The average person isn't very introspective nor aware of more than the superficial world. To take advice from the common man on inceldom is like taking advice from a car salesmen on how to build a car

Inceldom messes up your brain.

You're still incel though...

did therapy for 10 years, destroyed my life, totally

Comeback when you get laid, dumbass.

You know how people make daily threads about board gaming? I'll make them for you.

Hiring a tutor to teach you how to cope LOL

Therapy for what? I'm actually happy with my life, the only thing missing is a gf and connection with another person who actually loves me. Its infuriating because it really isnt in your power, if nobody wants to date you then what are you suppose to do?

The first thing to realize is that people enjoy being around happy people. Make yourself happy, enjoy life, enjoy yourself and even with a crooked ass smile and a birthmark across your face, someone will notice you and want to be around you.

I'm actually happy with my life

c'mon man at least read my comments if you're going with the empty platitudes route

See, a shitty comment to someone who is offering you an actual valid answer to your question. Nobody wants to be around that.

I walked that path and went from living alone with my only human contact being random hand shakes when we had a client in the office to married with a kid. I didn't say be happy with your life, I said to be a person others want to be around. Good luck homie.

Your answer is not valid though. It just shows that you're in a privileged position and the fact that you're getting so angry at the smallest disagreement reveals that your intention wasn't to help in the first place - it was to stroke your inflamed ego. If anyone needs more therapy, it's you.

You're not wrong, hence why I attempted an apology in my corrective edit. The advice is real though. And I'm not sure how my years of loneliness puts me in a privileged position. I was alone, I got a dog, went to dog parks, met people, it gave me confidence, I finally got happy with my life and came to terms with it, actually enjoyed being who I was, i became fun to be around, people invited me out after that, met my wife at a party, now I'm not alone.

And I'm not sure how my years of loneliness puts me in a privileged position.

The years of whatever it is that you're trying to paint as loneliness aren't the privilege. And it's telling that you don't even realize what the privilege is.

Make yourself happy, I didn't say be happy with your life, I said to be a person others want to be around.

....that's not what you said. I think that's what you meant but that's not what you said. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good advice but at the same time it really feels like people don't give a shit when they don't fully read your comment before responding to it.

Sorry. It's an emotional subject and sometimes the words don't come out right.

Nobody wants to be around that.

The opposite of “nobody wants to be around that” isn’t a fullfilling sex life, which is what we’re really after. So no, it isn’t a valid answer on a sub for incels.

I walked that path and went from living alone with my only human contact being random hand shakes when we had a client in the office to married with a kid.

That’s the difference between us: no one wants to do that with me, no matter what I do.

Hear me out. If people like your company, you'll have more chances to meet girls, which leads to more chances for a girl to realize how enjoyable it is to be around you, which is more chance she'll realize how good it feels to have you penetrate her nether regions. Sex comes from the feelings of enjoying being around someone.

Ok? The conversion from around me to something more never happens

The way I am seeing it is that you're not totally happy with your life. When you read that, keep in mind in a random dude from Reddit. However, if you were you would have everything you long for. Perhaps therapy is appropriate like the OP said. I'm a big advocate for everyone having a relationship with a therapist, either for specific times in your life, or just overall. Again, this is my two cents and I do hope the best for you friend.

The way I am seeing it is that you're not totally happy with your life.

For the sake of argument i’ll agree with you. I am not totally happy with my life because I don’t have a girlfriend. That is what is missing. Therapy isn’t a replacement, and can’t help me get a girlfriend.

I'm truly sorry you don't see a way through this right now. I really hope you find a way to feel whole, in whatever way is best for you.

You’re “sorry” but you won’t help me. You don’t want me to die? Get me a girlfriend.

I think the problem is yours and those 13 brain dead faggot. Virgins who upvoted you. He clearly already said he was happy with his life, and you totally did not read his comment because you said he isn’t.

The world isn't just.

You have the power my friend. You too can enjoy life and find a partner.

I'm shit out of luck, in this case. The more I live, the less I will tolerate someone in my life, simply because I haven't developed enough experience in terms of heterosexual relationships. No experience - no partners, no partners - loneliness, loneliness - bitterness and zero tolerance for bullshit.

I'm sorry homie.

I don't know man. At least we have ipads and McRibs. There's 7 year olds making Jordans and cleaning AKs for a living

somebody has it worse than you

Okay. If it makes you feel any better - keep saying that.

I mean it does. The champagne tastes extra good.

Okay, if you say so.

Enjoy your blessings don't take this shit for granted.

I'm a refugee from a war zone, preach to someone else.

Same actually but we came in the 90s. Nigga we made it.

If you say so.

fuck off , you fucking scum invalidating his feelings and telling a peroson to just become a happy fakehuman just to get a gf fuck you never invalidate my brothers feelings normie scum monster

chill.

Didn't advocate being fake. Find what makes you happy broflake. Good luck to you

The problem is how you define “happy”. You can’t pin your whole argument on a term you refuse to define.

1. I already am “happy” but it doesn’t get me a girlfriend.

2. Gettting a girlfriend will make he happy, will help me enjoy life and myself. What do you think I’ve been doing? Trying to make myself not happy? I know what will make me happy, I just can’t get it, so to tell me the solution to my problem is for my problem to already be fixed is less than helpful.

You've got it all wrong. The relationship isn't the key to happiness. The relationship will come after you're all good being alone. It's like you've got to come to terms with not having a gf before you can have one. It's a weird cycle, but it's true. seriously, it sounds weird, but give up on getting a girl, then go out and do things you enjoy. People will see you being awesome without a gf and that's attractive to girls somehow. A girl will fall into your lap. It happened to me, it can happen to you.

I was/am good alone, but the relationship never came

Easier said then done if you've never been in our shoes. Also, it's not like incels are always mopey 100% of the time. When I go out, I try to be happy and be having fun when trying to meet women. Still nothing happens.

I don't have a recipe for success here, i just know that taking steps to be happier with myself, led to people enjoying my company, which led to meeting my wife. Be someone you'd like to be around, and chances are you'll meet people who like to be around you. I too was pretty happy with things, but angry about being alone through it all, and that shows through to people. Seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this advice. I remember being at a bar, surrounded by hot chicks and nobody was talking to me. It took awhile to realize that nobody wanted to talk to the guy scowling in the corner. I had to get rid of that feeling of being alone being someone else's fault. In my mind I gave up trying to find someone, and that let me be a person people liked to be around more, which increased my chances of meeting girls. YMMV, but that's how I got out of the cycle.

How does that relate to my comment? I'm not sitting in a corner scowling.

I wish I could up vote this comment 100 times.

Get sex therapy

Therapy is a scam.

These fuckers betabux depressed people, traumatized and incels.

Profession of sociopathic persons. No wonder most of these psychologists and therapists are women.

Therapy is a stupid idea. You spend a ton of money to vent your issues when theres no way they could possibly relate or understand what you're going through, only to be fed the typical platitudes and non-advice that all the other normalfags give. Don't get cucked out of your money.

How did the therapy help you? What were some of the things your therapist did that you felt helped the most?

Tell us your story then.

I myself was in therapy for two years, twice a week, and while it helped me immensely in other areas of life, there was seemingly nothing we could do to tackle the issue of my being an incel. The therapist could not really empathize (and admitted as such) with a life that completely lacked any sort of intimacy and affection with another person, and I in turn felt no relief and no closure in expressing my feelings about it or receiving sympathy.

Similarly, neither can I trace the fact that I eventually found a girlfriend to anything that I did in therapy.

And if you're advocating CBT or some other mechanistic approach as a coping method, then I vehemently disagree and would debate you, but first want to hear you out.

Jesus, I don’t think Cock and Ball Torture can help anyone with inceldom.

So tell us your story then.

What are the issues you work on with your therapists? How do the solutions work? What are they like? How do you feel about being an incel? What are your circumstances?

What kind of extreme thoughts?

Being an Incel is not a big deal really.

Thinking that is what allowed me to keep my peace of mind in my mid-twenties, but one of the biggest reasons I went into therapy as I approached 30 and after was exactly because being an incel was getting to be a bigger and bigger deal. It tied into social isolation as friends started their own families and began having children. It tied into fear and apathy as old age became more of a definite future than some distant concept. It started to become a very real part of planning for said future, since my own age and the need to take care of aging relatives made it necessary to plan.

If your only problem was dealing with obsessive thoughts about chads and stacies and the unfairness of it all, then sure, therapy is a somewhat effective tool for dealing with that, but at the same time there are other, less expensive tools and more importantly it's not a solution - it's not even half of a solution. As much as I'm a big proponent of therapy, especially "talk" therapy, I think it's wrong to claim that all incels need therapy and that the currently available approaches are capable of helping them. Therapy is a huge financial and emotional commitment - you don't just go blanket recommending it to everyone in an incel community.

For all we know, you might be the only person here who suffered from such intrusive thoughts in the first place, and for problems specific to the issue of incel, sadly, it seems that modern therapy really doesn't work at all.

Well extreme thoughts would be the kind of thought that are posted on the front page of this sub. The misogynistic drivel. The jealous thoughts. Feeling like shit all the time.

That's what you said and you described those as intrusive thoughts. If you were actively suicidal at the time, then yes, I would argue that few incels at any given time are actively suicidal and simply keeping suicide in mind as an option is not unhealthy.

You definitely aren't

Great post!

Will it cure inceldom? Not really

Fuck off

Cope.

Yes, bettering and improving oneself is actually just a lie to cope eith their insecurities, how could i have been so blind.

Yeah now you’re gettin it

Fuck off with those moronic posts

Not all incels are suicidal...

/u/gufestus2

If you wanted brownie points from normies, to hear "YASSSS GUFESTUS SLAYYYY", then congratulations, you got you wanted but guess what. Brownie points end but you still have to put work and be alone with your problems for years. Enjoy your validation and I really hope your therapy works for you but considering how annoying you were when people tried to cheer you up, when you incessantly whined about not having a GF, this makes the way you wrote this shit double infuriating.

Fuck off cunt my therapist scammed me and took my money am never going to one ever again i hate those "Professional" Cucks who couldn't give more a fuck

Failed normie.

Dude, he was one of the hardcore incels from /r/incels

No, he wasn't. At one point he was a moderate incel then he turned into the massive white knight and normie-panderer he is now.

a girlfriend will cure my suicidal thoughts. and to anyone who say no it wont eat shit.

Won't it no. ✔m8

When I had a decent looking gf and she fuckdd my brains out everyday i wasn’t depressed and felt great. You work

And when you two broke up depression immediately returned? Because if so there is more going on there.

Not immediately, but after our break up I tried to hookup with or get into a relationship with other girls and only met rejection. It reminded me that I’m plain and unattractive to women and got with my last girl because of sheer lucky. If returned like 2 months after.

a lot of girls find bfs while cuting and being suicidal

Get therapy for suxking board gaming dick first

I don't have a dick.

How often do you hsve ro respond to shit like this? Seriously, its in like every thread even when completely unrelated.

i can go to therapist but femoids will still see me as the-rapist

Lose the mustache

Yes you guys really should

Will it cure your Inceldom? Not really.

Then it doesn’t work, by definition.

Will it help you develop coping methods so you can help yourself escape Inceldom? You bet.

I have a car to sell you. Will it get you where you want to go? Not really, but it will help you develop methods so that you can maybe get where you want to go some day (but probably not).

I am someone who is in therapy and has bee in it much longer than you have. No, “get another therapist” isn’t a solution, the problem is with what therapy is, not any specific therapist. Until a therapist will actually introduce you to women you want to be in a relationship with, and they want you too, therapy can’t work, and suicide is the only viable solution.

Delay. Distract. Redirect. That is all therapy is.

Wow. You definitely need more therapy if this is your thinking.

You need an education if that is your thinking.

delay, distract, redirect is something I read in (endorsed by) a CAMS presentation.

I don’t care about working “like a functioning human being.” I need a girlfriend now. “Who knows” in the future is not good enough. This is an emergency. Suicide is my only option.

It is easy to see how you’re being rediculous: just apply the same standard to anyone else, to any other topic.

You should care about it. Because that's how you'll find her.

How do you know that? It sounds like you’re just guessing.

How many lottery tickets did you buy today? You know, if you didn’t buy any, there’s a zero chance of you winning the lottery.

Most people do find someone who loves them for who they are.

Huh?

And I'm sure you will too.

What evidence do you have? Regardless, loving me "for who" I am isn't what is missing: what is missing is a girlfriend. My mom loves me for who I am, but she's not a replacement for a girlfriend. Eventually isn't a replacement for right now.

OK, so will you answer the rest of my questions?

I think I have identified why you are incel. No woman would want to be with a man carrying this personality.

OP was saying that perhaps you solve your issues within yourself, find your own happiness, then you have a much greater chance of someone wanting to share their life with you. No one wants to share a life with someone pissy and miserable.

If I seem miserable it is because I don’t have a girlfriend. I’m supposed to be happy being single my whole life? Do you think it is reasonable to black up every couple and expect them to be happy being single their whole lives?

someone "disagreeing with you" isnt the same as them "having a bad attitude' :2

"No one wants to share a life with someone pissy and miserable." Incorrect :2 they merely have to have a vagina as well. X[)

regardless, interesting platitudes - they're highly helpful. :2

How do you know that?

Experience

How do you know I will find “her”? What is her name? Where will I meet her? When? How?

This post gave me the following diseases: Achondroplasia Acne AIDS Albinism Alcoholic hepatitis Allergy Alopecia Alzheimer's disease Amblyopia Amebiasis Anemia Aneurdu Anorexia Anosmia Anotia Anthrax Appendicitis Apraxia Argyria Arthritis Aseptic meningitis Asthenia Asthma Astigmatism Atherosclerosis Athetosis Atrophy Autism Bacterial meningitis Barack Obama syndrome Beriberi Black Death Botulism Breast cancer Bronchitis Brucellosis Bubonic plague Bunion Bella killer Calculi Campylobacter infection Cancer Candidiasis Carbon monoxide poisoning Celiacs disease Cerebral palsy Chagas disease Chalazion Chancroid Chavia Cherubism Chickenpox Child elongated penis syndrome Chlamydia Chlamydia trachomatis Cholera Chordoma Chorea Chronic fatigue syndrome Circadian rhythm sleep disorder Coccidioidomycosis Colitis Common cold Condyloma Congestive heart disease Coronary heart disease Cowpox Cretinism Crohn's Disease Dengue Diabetes Diphtheria Dehydration Ear infection Ebola Encephalitis Emphysema Epilepsy Erectile dysfunction Foodborne illness Gangrene Gastroenteritis Genital herpes GERD Goitre Gonorrhea Heart disease Hepatitis A Hepatitis B Hepatitis C Hepatitis D Hepatitis E Hepatitis F (Childhood Herpes) Histiocytosis (Childhood Cancer) HIV Human papillomavirus Huntington's disease Hypermetropia Hyperopia Hyperthyroidism Hypothermia Hypothyroid Hypotonia Impetigo Infertility Influenza Interstitial cystitis Iritis Iron-deficiencyanemia Irritable bowel syndrome Ignious Syndrome Jaundice Keloids Kuru Kwashiorkor Laryngitis Lead poisoning Leaking scrotum syndrome Legionellosis Leishmaniasis Leprosy Leptospirosis Listeriosis Leukemia Lice Loiasis Lung cancer Lupus erythematosus Lyme disease Lymphogranulomavenereum Lymphoma Malaria Marburg fever Measles Melanoma Melioidosis Metastatic cancer Ménière's disease Meningitis Migraine Mononucleosis Multiple myeloma Multiple sclerosis Mumps Muscular dystrophy Myasthenia gravis Myelitis Myoclonus Myopia Myxedema Morquio Syndrome Mattticular syndrome Neoplasm Niggeritis Non-gonococcal urethritis Necrotizing Fasciitis Night blindness Obesity Osteoarthritis Osteoporosis Otitis Palindromic rheumatism Paratyphoid fever Parkinson's disease Pelvic inflammatory disease Peritonitis Periodontal disease Pertussis Phenylketonuria Plague Poliomyelitis Porphyria Progeria Prostatitis Psittacosis Psoriasis PTSD Pubic lice Pulmonary embolism Pilia Q fever Ques fever Rabies Repetitive strain injury Rheumatic fever Rheumatic heart Rheumatism Rheumatoid arthritis Rickets Rift Valley fever Rocky Mountain spotted fever Rubella Salmonellosis Sandy vagina Scabies Scarlet fever Sciatica Scleroderma Scrapie Scurvy Sepsis Septicemia SARS Shigellosis Shin splints Shingles Sickle-cell anemia Siderosis SIDS Silicosis Smallpox Stevens-Johnsonsyndrome Stomach flu Stomach ulcers Strabismus Strep throat Streptococcal infection Swag Synovitis Syphilis Swine influenza Schizophrenia Taeniasis Tay-Sachs disease Tennis elbow Teratoma Tetanus Thalassaemia Thrush Thymoma Tinnitus Tonsillitis Tooth decay Toxic shock syndrome Trichinosis Trichomoniasis Trisomy Tuberculosis Tularemia Tungiasis Typhoid fever Typhus Tumor Ulcerative colitis Ulcers Uremia Urticaria Uveitis Vaginal warts Varicella Varicose veins Vasovagal syncope Vitiligo Von Hippel-Lindau disease Viral fever Viral meningitis Warkany syndrome Warts Watkins Yellow fever Yersiniosis Zygamantis

Did you get laid? Did you turn into chad?

Did you lose your virginity?

How many women did you fuck?

Cope

I tried therapy, didn't work.

Some of us don't really have mental problems. We're just lonely because we are incel.

No matter what, if you are incel, you're going to be depressed about it. Countless studies and philosophical writers back this up.

Stop labeling yourself?

Incel isn't a label, it's a state. It is shorthand for saying that I've tried to get laid/relationships and failed every time.

Fuck off, shill. The only way therapy will ever help you is if there's nothing really wrong with you in the first place. There is no escape for true mentalcels.

Shill for the pill, shabbos goy.

There's no hope for you with that thinking.

the rapy?

I liked therapy when I lived alone because it was guaranteed 1 hour weekly social interaction (that wasn't high-stakes and overstimulating like being face-to-face with a normie.)

When I moved back with my parents and was no longer effectively living in a solitary confinement situation, I stopped therapy immediately because without needing dearly to rely on it for positive IRL interaction with another human, it reduced to a redundant absurd exercise of head-nodding and hair-splitting.

Fuck off. Don't tell me what to do. Keep it to your fucking self. For fucks sake.

I do agree therapy can help, but you have to got the right types, like CBT and/or mindfulness.

Suicide is the ultimate therapy.

Or self medicate with alcohol and cocaine.

Therapy won't make you taller or better looking.

Look, incels have an objective need in life, and the solution is to satisfy the need, not "therapy."

And no, I don't mean the physical experience of sex, though that's part of it. They need the validation from a girlfriend that their male identity has value, and that they are welcome in society.

I call the male incel's state "sexual eviction" instead of "sexual rejection" for a reason. Women ultimately decide who is welcome into society and who isn't; and if women consistently agree that a given man is not allowed by refusing to consider him a potential mate, then that man is effectively homeless, even if his life works in other areas like being able to hold a job and rent an apartment.

I spent the last decade "working on myself" and looking at my own problems.

It's left my nervous system completely fried and hypersensitive from the psychiatric drugging and cost me a fortune in therapists who would tell me "you deserve a partner".

I'd like to see a movie where a therapist is an incel in denial, and he counsels a Hannibal Lecter kind of character who picks up on the incel's tells and draws attention to them. The experience unnerves the therapist as he realizes that he has been caught up in the tragedy of male sexuality, and he can't escape it no matter what he does.

yeah, i wish i could afford it.

Accusatory threads that generalize the entire subreddit (e.g., "Why do you creepy virgins hate women so much?!" or "Are you people for real? Is this a joke?") will be treated as spam and removed.

Will it cure your Inceldom? Not really. Will it help you develop coping methods so you can help yourself escape Inceldom? You bet.

don't approve something i've removed

i just explained how it broke the rules you chucklefuck

you said everyone in this sub would develop coping methods through therapy

literally the first day i'm interacting with you as a mod and you're already fucking up

This post was only directed towards the guys feeling suicidal, not to all Incels.

Why are you deleting his post because you don't like it?

This post was only directed towards the guys feeling suicidal, not to all Incels.

not seeing that written anywhere in the post

It's literally the last line of the post!

he called everyone in this sub people who would benefit from therapy, then told all the guys feeling suicidal to get therapy

i'm enforcing the rules

yuh-huh

I might consider it for, if for nothing else, the intellectual stimulation and challenge.

developing coping mechanisms isn't success story, at best its the lesser of two evils.

Most people can't escape inceldom. All therapy does is helping you accept it.

Your answer is not valid though. It just shows that you're in a privileged position and the fact that you're getting so angry at the smallest disagreement reveals that your intention wasn't to help in the first place - it was to stroke your inflamed ego. If anyone needs more therapy, it's you.

Make yourself happy, I didn't say be happy with your life, I said to be a person others want to be around.

....that's not what you said. I think that's what you meant but that's not what you said. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good advice but at the same time it really feels like people don't give a shit when they don't fully read your comment before responding to it.

My friend was a 48 year old 5'2" Indian guy and he had trouble finding a woman who wanted to be with him. Do you think he just sat around and complained about it all day? Fuck no. He started CBT, watched Jordan Peterson, and took SSRIs and now he's a tall handsome blonde 20 year old and can get any girl he wants.

You know who the dude is right?

Nobody wants to be around that.

The opposite of “nobody wants to be around that” isn’t a fullfilling sex life, which is what we’re really after. So no, it isn’t a valid answer on a sub for incels.

I walked that path and went from living alone with my only human contact being random hand shakes when we had a client in the office to married with a kid.

That’s the difference between us: no one wants to do that with me, no matter what I do.

I don’t know you at all, but what you’ve written in your comments that I’ve replied to are idiotic.

And you're extremely hostile for no reason at all.

Some good evidence in favor of psychoanalysis

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wps.20267/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpp.1917/full

Some good evidence against

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735811001863

Do you still think me an idiot? I'll assume yes. But my speaking of psychoanalysis in a disparaging way is not completely baseless. There is an ongoing debate about the usefulness of this therapy.

So tell us your story then.

I think the problem is yours and those 13 brain dead faggot. Virgins who upvoted you. He clearly already said he was happy with his life, and you totally did not read his comment because you said he isn’t.

Lose the mustache

And when you two broke up depression immediately returned? Because if so there is more going on there.

If you say so.

Not immediately, but after our break up I tried to hookup with or get into a relationship with other girls and only met rejection. It reminded me that I’m plain and unattractive to women and got with my last girl because of sheer lucky. If returned like 2 months after.

Well extreme thoughts would be the kind of thought that are posted on the front page of this sub. The misogynistic drivel. The jealous thoughts. Feeling like shit all the time.

That's what you said and you described those as intrusive thoughts. If you were actively suicidal at the time, then yes, I would argue that few incels at any given time are actively suicidal and simply keeping suicide in mind as an option is not unhealthy.

You definitely aren't

Incel isn't a label, it's a state. It is shorthand for saying that I've tried to get laid/relationships and failed every time.

How many years?

In depends on what you mean by "try."

There is no guarantee of a girlfriend, because girlfriends are human beings who have their own free will and own desires.

Right, so I should kill myself

I'm saying that it's no-one else's responsibility to make your life good.

Right, so I should kill myself

If you refuse to put in the effort by insisting that you be guaranteed a girlfriend before you bother doing something, or insisting that unless there are direct and immediate rewards for socialisation it's not worth the effort, then guess what, you're not going to win.

I did put in the effort, but it didn't get me anything. What socializations will guarantee me a girlfriend? That is for you to prove.

It's on you to make your life a good one. Have you?

Is it? Can I control everyone?