Yes! This is true

Chemistry is about looks to women. Period.

If you look good, she will always make time

That's idiotic.

coming from someone who was approached twice lol

Just examples, mate. I've been approached plenty of times but I turned down some and others didn't last long. I'm no looker. Probably average-ish, although if I'm in a bad state of mind I'd say I'm an ugly fucker with zero redeeming qualities.

It's about personality. The first of those relationships lasted about two months because we just didn't sync up. Good looks mean fuck all in the long run- initial attraction only, and even then it's about 50% of the equation. After that, it is all personality.

inb4 I'm on r/ihavesex, I'm not saying I'm some sort of player getting puss on the regs. I'm just a guy who is too shy and people seem to understand that and come to me instead. It's pretty wholesome, really.

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yeah...sure. whatever you say.

So why don't they come up to the incels?

Because you guys make it about looks and rarely make an effort. I was the same way, at one point. Meet them halfway, yeah? There are plenty of ways to go about it.

I'm not an incel, just agreeing with them. However it appears you don't even have meet the women halfway. Many of the incels I've spoken to have never had a woman come up to them, many of them are average looking as well. They even do the approaching as well and are usually blown off.

Everyone likes to get on them all the freaking time believing it's they have the wrong personality. But no, anyone can get by on their personality, plenty of shitty people get laid all the time. In many situations Incels go to the gym, have personalities that allow them to have friends (even with women), and cool careers but still do not get laid/find a girlfriend.

Method of approach is important as well. If average looking people can do what they say average looking people are incapable of doing, then clearly they are wrong. The personality is the next logical assumption.

Right but if you get approached just fine and you are average looking, then why do you get approached and they don't?

Think about it. If personality is the next logical assumption, then I am probably getting approached because in some way my personality is attractive. If it helps, I am normally approached by girls I've known for a bit either through gaming or some proximity to me, and almost all of them are nerdy-types. Since I'm a nerdy type.

Having female friends helps. Having a matching personality helps. Focusing purely on looks doesn't.

Trust me, my buddy has always had a great personality. He is way more chill than me and well liked than me. When he lost 75 lbs, he started getting approached. Personality never changed. On the flip side i am what my friends say "a 9 in looks, but a 1 in personality", and I would say I was approached way more than him.

That's your experience, then, but that isn't everybody.

Alright, well I don't think we'll be able to change each other's viewpoints. So I guess we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

My viewpoint is based on what I've seen. Yours is based on you've seen. No disagreement needed, neither of us is wrong. I guess it's just different. Hell, maybe I am just lucky. Time will tell.

we are not average, you see.

funny coming from a guy who has been approached by multiple girls, yet calls himself an ugly person. are you right in the mind?

Lol no. Just no.

You have to have enough in Column A and Column B. Being conventionally attractive is not enough to make me want to have sex or have a relationship with someone.

I find that a man's character (not just personality) actually enhances his level of attractiveness or diminishes it. I've known many conventionally attractive men that are shallow, or have weak character, or are just jerks for whatever reason....it takes away a lot of that initial attraction.

I've experienced chemistry with all kinds of people. At 20 years old I was 5'10", 120 pounds, and frequently told by EVERYONE how gorgeous I was--literally I had people that would stop me on the streets to comment on my looks or ask if I was a model. My boyfriend of 5 years was 2 inches shorter than me, and he was overweight--not obese, but had some extra padding for sure.

My first memory of him is his piercing blue eyes and charming smile, and then we got to know each other and I was a goner. His weight was a non-issue.

My husband was balding by 21. He is now totally bald at 30. When I first met him, I thought he was handsome, but it took me 3 dates to really decide if I was into him. I was really shy, and he was really different than a lot of other guys I'd ever been out with. On our third date we happened to break through some walls and really find a connection. And boom. I was like, "did I just find my soulmate?" I went from being lukewarm to completely attracted to him.

So yes, looks are important. But that's not what dictates my attraction. Why? I'm not a mindless boob-zombie.

Absolutely. If you read my post you would have noticed that my first boyfriend was overweight and shorter than me, but I felt instant attraction. My husband I thought was handsome but I was very tepid about until I realized we had a deeper connection.

Being handsome doesn't automatically get you a date.

Being overweight and with average looks doesn't mean you're doomed to celibacy forever.

I met both men under different circumstances and in different contexts; different things cause attraction. Base looks is part of it, but only a small part.

I can hear how discouraged you sound, and it must be really frustrating to feel like the attributes you have are not valued or sought-after in our culture or society. You're right--in American society especially, we see a really narrow representation of "beauty" or "attractiveness" reinforced from all angles it seems. I really wish there were more voices and more representation of masculinity and attractiveness as a whole. It really saddens me that our culture can marginalize so many people who don't fit into this narrow box of masculinity or attractiveness.

Brown eyes ARE remarkable. Brown eyes are gorgeous. I wouldn't go out on a date with someone just because of their eye color; my first boyfriend could have been one of thousands of people I looked at and in a moment thought, "wow their [insert feature] is so interesting", but it just so happened that we connected via other means.

I'm sure you're a great person with a lot to offer. I'm not sure you will become MORE awesome by hanging around an incel subreddit, seems like it will only make you bitter and exacerbate the issue you are experiencing.

we see a really narrow representation of "beauty" or "attractiveness" reinforced from all angles it seems.

opposite when it comes to the spectrum of beauty for women

At least you heightmog me. That counts for something, am I right?

True. I made a post like this on incels.me but yours is like an extended version with much more detail.

No, this isn't true. I thought nobody liked me in highschool and later learned a girl had a crush on me, I thought I was unlovable

''had a crush on me'' facepalm

What's the problem?

Yuppp. You can't make up for looks with personality. If she's not interested in you she's not interested. It'd be creepy to try and keep pursuing.

Of course. And if you try and go any further than that you end up on /r/niceguys. Rightfully so I guess.

If you do it in a creepy way or keep insisting and insisting even after she has declined then not niceguys but r/creepypms.

The reason you’d end up in niceguys is if you keep telling her how much of a nice guy you are and she should give you a chance because you’re nice/would treat her like a princess/you’re not a pervert like most men.

If you do it in a creepy way or keep insisting and insisting even after she has declined then not niceguys but r/creepypms.

Same idea, it's creepy to keep pursuing if she's made it clear that you're just friends. I don't really follow creepypms so I'm not sure of the difference, I just know a lot of the "nice guys" talk about the "friendzone".

much of a nice guy you are and she should give you a chance

lol nobody will do that though.

Did you visit the sub? There's a thousand examples of men doing exactly that.

No

Then that's why you don't think it happens, isn't it?

None of us are stupid enough to do that

Nobody is talking about you specifically. The above poster said nobody behaved in the way that is clearly documented by the sub he was linked to.

Lol you know exactly what he was trying to say.

Uh...yeah? I just outlined it right above your post.

You've clearly never been to r/niceguys.

r/niceguys

2018

literally still talking to women

What are these guys on

You need both personality and looks. Personality alone isn't fuckable.

Thank you for being a voice of sanity and reason. There seem to be a lot of bitter, isolated, angry, lost people on this sub and while I feel for their frustrations about their situation I also don't think resigning yourself to an echochamber of hate is a great thing to do in the long run.

More voices like yours should be shared.

This sub is actually not that bad, IMO. I'm surprised I was actually upvoted. Usually outside of here I get downvoted for speaking the truth. I guess I'm finally not in the minority anymore!

Can confirm

Yep.

A little personal story:

In my line of work, I visit many restaurants. One of them I go to semi-often is this cute (presumably older) Asian woman.

We talked and I started to develop something of a crush, and I wondered why it was I hadn't asked her out yet. I coped and though to myself, "it's because I haven't gotten the opportunity".

Then I realized it's because she hasn't GIVEN me the opportunity.

If I were Chad? She'd have given me the opportunity several times over.

It's likely that I mistook general niceness with the public for flirting.

My mistake, forgot I was as an incel.

It's probably pointless to post here, but I was once a fit, attractive young woman. I got hit on constantly, from all directions, all the time, always. For years and years and years.

I don't like getting hit on. I don't like "chads". Sure, some guy might be cute or he might be conventionally attractive but that's not an automatic recipe for me to give him my number and drop my panties.

Women are not a monolithic mass of brainless boobs. Seeing a confident, conventionally attractive guy is not a magic wand that makes me forget everything I want, need, enjoy, or value in life and just surrender my pussy.

Cope

Hmm, well your spelling isn't great so maybe you want to work on that.

I lost my virginity to my first boyfriend, whom I posted about above. I was 19. We were together for 5 years. I then had another serious relationship for about a year that didn't work out. Then I met my husband.

Sure, I've had sex with more than one person but I'd hardly call that a carousel. The thing is, I certainly had the OPTION, but I was not interested in casual hookups. I wanted a guy to like me for me, not my looks, and I chose carefully.

I don't expect pity for getting advances from men, but it's not something I reveled in. It was a daily reality but not something I celebrated. Now that I have kids and am invisible it's actually a relief.

Hmm, well your spelling isn't great so maybe you want to work on that.

What was the point of that barb?

Hmm, well your spelling isn't great so maybe you want to work on that.

he misspelled one fucking word, who gives a shit. Why bring it up? To degrade him?

I'm browsing this sub out of curiosity after hearing someone mention it but have a question, where you popular growing up? Before age 15? Or were you just normal/unpopular and become good looking later in life?

I have a silly theory based on my ex girlfriends. The nice, down to Earth ones who sound like you, were all "nerdy" or "normal" up until around age 15 when they suddenly became hot and guys started hitting on them like crazy. They saw it as weird for such a surface thing to have such a huge impact on people's behavior and so developed a different attitude towards dating and really do have a preference for guy's personalities.

Those who were considered good looking from a young age usually have bad, spoiled, shallow personalities (the kind of girl who, if you ask "what are your hobbies" wants to leave) but there are exceptions but it's a general pattern I've noticed with girlfriends and friends in general.

Another weird thing I've noticed is that the ones who grew up nerdy saw their new found looks as something to take advantage of and usually went into some kind of modelling or dancing while the "always been the center of attention" princess types have this strange "I'd have to be payed $1,000,000 to take off my top" attitude. I don't know, it could all be a huge series of coincidences or maybe I just attract these kinds of women or maybe I'm noticing a pattern?

(I notice patterns in guys too if someone wants to say I'm being a woman hater. Maybe I am but at least I'm a guy hater too by those standards. I'm just asking because you seem open minded enough to discuss something stupid like this. It's something I've noticed (and female friends have noticed it too) for a while but never talked about.)

I was bullied incessantly and was always "weird" and labelled an outsider. We moved around a lot and my parents sheltered us, so prior to 1999 I was basically cut off from all pop culture. I grew up on Disney moves from the 1960s. You may as well have painted a big red target on my back, because I never knew what anyone was talking about at school. I also wore my siblings' hand-me-downs until I was 12, which were already dorky and out of style when they were purchased 5 years prior. My mom also cut my hair so it looked incredibly fucking nerdy.

When I turned 12, my mom realized that all of her kids were suffering in school and I was having a particularly rough time of it. I literally had no friends--I was incredibly socially awkward, I cringe to think back on it. She took me to Limited, Too to buy me some clothes that were in style and started taking me to a hair dresser to get my hair done like a normal human being.

I still spent the rest of my school years in Catholic School, but things got a bit better after that: I made a few friends, but was never ever ever!!! considered popular.

I never had boyfriends in high school, but people on the street would stop me to comment on my looks. My friends and family also told me often how drop-dead gorgeous I was.

I got a boyfriend after high school, when I was 19, and dropped about 20 pounds. Breaking free of my sheltered upbringing and Catholic school environment and I was actually able to catch up on the last 20 years of society. I saw The Goonies for the first time when I was 22. I saw Jurassic Park when I was in my late teens!

What you are noticing is called CHARACTER. It's okay to not like someone because of their character. It doesn't make all women succubi who only want to use men. It means they were raised in an environment that contributed to them being shallow, terrible people and unfortunately their beauty or self-image is tied up in that. You don't sound like a woman hater, but a lot of people on this sub become that due to being victim to your observations here.

You're probably right, and I never realized it. From the ages of 12-25, I could roll out of bed without trying and get stopped on the streets and asked if I was a model. No makeup, my hair not done, wearing nothing special. I was never, ever one of those girls that obsessed about her appearance--though I certainly did wear makeup and do my hair like any normal girl.

Although I was pretty, the popular boys nevvvver approached me and id they did, it was to ask me out as a joke then make fun of me publicly for actually thinking they would date me (this actually happened).

Now that I'm 30, I have gained 40 pounds and have 2 kids I am invisible. It does suck and I understand why a lot of incels are unhappy and have low self esteem. It's a terrible feeling, to feel that you're not valued. It happened almost overnight. I used to cry about it and it did impact my self-esteem. Getting older as a woman really sucks. You feel used up and cast aside.

Wow, you sound exactly like everyone of my ex's. (The ones I like.) -_-

Yeah, it's character, I just don't want to be so mean when categorizing a group because I've met popular girls who became scientists or engineers but they're pretty rare.

I'm not an "incel" by the way, I only just heard about this group, but I do feel really bad for these guys because I was bullied for years and then became "hot" and was hit on by a stupid amount of women. I went through what you did (even the "ask out on a date" and then a group of girls burst into laughter thing) but I guess things ARE easier for men in that when you get older, looks don't matter as much but if you don't have a decent job or are in a situation where you can't get one you're basically just as cast aside.

Like my driest spell when it comes to dating was when I had to look after my sick mom. That repelled women like a fucking rape convention. I had so many embarrassing and awkward moments during that time as women would obviously be attracted to me and then around the "what do you do?" moment that used to go fine they'd get this "holy shit, what a weirdo" look because I LOOKED AFTER A SICK WOMAN. What a menace to society I was. Once I got through that things went back to normal. But during that time the only women who talked to me were those who didn't know what I did or those who I'd already established a relationship with. Guys and girls are valued based on VERY shallow things for the most part. We like to think we're more but we're still animals and you can't choose what sexually attracts you.

Once you hit a certain age as a guy looks stop being as important unless you want to keep hitting on 18-24 year olds. Women NEED, at a minimum, a socially capable guy in their life because they have to worry about what their friends think and family think and want them to like them. Society and biology are closely intertwined so a guy needs to be capable and able to function in society to be considered "healthy" which is what a lot of guys here seem to miss. Men and women are just seen differently in society and both face unique challenges. I really want to help these guys who are sad, as patronizing and naive as that sounds.

Seeing some of the angry comments about incels is strange. It's like going to a homeless guy forum and mocking them for being bitter. If a woman went through what some of these guys have been through, more people would be sympathetic to their anger I feel (but again there are exclusive challenges each sex faces).

...Then again there are some weird posts on here that are begging to be mocked. Oh well, anyway I'm babbling, thanks for being honest and answering. I hate doing stuff like reducing a personality to a certain "type" but you're right, it's just about character. People who go through more varied and diverse experiences, both negative and positive, are more grounded since they have a thorough understanding of reality. They don't float through life and so have to reflect on things and develop a personality. I guess that's why you see a lot of these "hot girls" who end up drunk after 30. They literally got admired for 30 years for no reason and then people STOP. That would fuck with you.

Your username is actually hilarious because at first glance I thought it said "kill yourself". I wrote my reply and afterwards was browsing Reddit, reflecting upon my experiences during my homestay with a Moroccan family and living in the Middle East for 3 years, thinking to myself, 'are all these guys just pent up Muslims?'

I know I will get downvoted for that but it was a prevalent observation during my time in Islamic society...some of the most pent-up, frustrated, hormonal young men I'd ever seen and before they got married they'd take it out by driving their cars around like crazy people and acting like 'roided up goofs.

Anyways, I came back to your post and saw that your username is actually Khalil Yousuf and I just about burst out laughing. Even if you're not Muslim, it's so fitting in this sub.

Your dead fucking on.

I was born in Canada though and had extremely religous parents. I was beat untill 18 if i was even suspected of talking to a girl by my dad.

Im a 29 year old virgin now and the concept of flirting, dating is completely alien concept to me.

I still have the urge to have sex etc. But the fact that i have no clue how to go about makes me sexual frustrated as hell.

I wouldnt be surprised if their are a lot of middle eastern incels.

God I feel so bad for you. I am so sorry you had such a terrible time growing up and that your parents really harmed your development. It's not right.

I feel incredibly sad for the young men I see and come in contact with every day. I have heard through the grapevine that in some cases, boys will self-stimulate but deny themselves ejaculation, since apparently the orgasm is the sinful part, but the masturbation part is probably in hopes they can relieve their frustration somewhat.

I can't imagine what it would be like to be a 16 year old and not only socially cut off from girls, but living in the constant shadow of fear and punishment for what are completely normal, natural, healthy urges. Sounds like a great way to really damage someone psychologically.

If you haven't yet, maybe consider therapy? I know that sounds totally silly and honestly pretty scary. But the fear and attitudes your dad ingrained in you at such a critical time in your development can really be holding you back from finding peace and happiness in your life now.

I have a friend who is 30 and (probably) a virgin--if he's not, it was literally a one-time thing in high school 15 years ago--and I feel very sand and angry for him because his parents really sheltered him during these critical years as well. When he entered independent adulthood, he lacked so many essential skills that everyone around him had learned in their teens. Way to destroy your self-esteem! When you feel like you have such a huge learning curve compared to everyone else. All it takes is a couple negative experiences to compound that feeling of insecurity, inadequacy, and frustration. It becomes a bigger and bigger mountain to overcome. And now at 30, I'm sure he feels like it's too big to take on.

Do you still talk to your dad? How's your life going now?

Im still angry at my dad now that im older and understand where everything went wrong.

Im now picking up the pieces, ive been working out and trying to go outdoors more, but the hardest part is the social anxiety from talking to women.

Getting outside is good for the soul. Hiking does wonders!

I hope things get better for you. Staying positive will help!

Thanks!

Wtf is up with that? Like what’s the logic? “If he talks to a girl, he’s gonna fuck her, could get her pregnant, there goes his future?” Like they gave you and their parenting skills no credit at all?

This is so true.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/283/235/7e3.jpg

In all seriousness, and maybe this is the weed talking, but I could feel some parts of your post.

You lost me at the last part, if the right guy comes along, a girl will lose her mind. I've seen it.

I'm just not worth losing anything over.

if the right guy comes along, a girl will lose her mind.

You mean, the right guy for me (or that individual), who might have a complex myriad of personal, social, spiritual, and sexual characteristics that lead me (or another individual) to get excited about? Is that what you mean?

So, women are just brainwashed by...what, exactly? Hormones? Some guy's abs?

Due to my personality, life experiences, spiritual beliefs, hopes and dreams for my future, and personal preferences, I sought out certain things in my potential partners. None of those things had anything to do with looks. They were more like a set of traits, characteristics, beliefs, experiences, and interests that would mesh well with my needs.

People are allowed to want happiness and are not evil for finding someone who makes them happy. So YES, if the right guy comes along a girl will get excited and will consent to further contact which may include sex. Not ANY guy, but the RIGHT guy.

I have seen some ugly motherfuckers get married, men and women alike. Looks are not everything, just like the original post implies.

Of course, there ARE social factors that might limit dating success for some incels, and that must be incredibly disempowering and isolating. No one enjoys hearing about the suffering and unhappiness of other people. It sounds like a lot of you guys need a bit more compassion in your day to day lives, and I'm sorry you haven't had enough of it.

Due to my personality, life experiences, spiritual beliefs, hopes and dreams for my future

In my experience as a young man, young women don't seem to have any of those things.

Which is why you're lonely and bitter. But it's cool you can blame everyone else for your problems. Good job.

... who might have a complex myriad of personal, social, spiritual, and sexual characteristics ...

Complex is not the same as unique. We’re all more similar than we are different, so why is it surprising that people want similar things?

None of those things had anything to do with looks.

Maybe you subconciously only considered men who were good enough in the looks department.

Not ANY guy, but the RIGHT guy.

We are in agreement. Being incel is defined as not being the right guy for ANY woman. If you dissagree, then it is up to you to find that woman for me, because I have already done enough searching to be very confident that she doesn’t exist.

It sounds like a lot of you guys need a bit more compassion in your day to day lives, and I'm sorry you haven't had enough of it.

I need more than compassion. How is the way you treat your husband different from just compassion? I need THAT.

re: compassion, I just mean from society in general. A lot of guys on here are incredibly bitter, negative, and hateful. I'm sure that is because people have been awful to them. That's terrible.

And yes, we all need and want the romantic and physical love that comes with relationships. I can't imagine what it would be like to be deprived of that, and it's understandable that incels feel isolated, frustrated, and devalued by society. I hope we can work together as a society so that more people feel included and valued.

I don't need compassion from society in general, I need a girlfriend. Do you treat every man in "society" like your husband? Do you fuck every man you meet like you fuck your husband? No? Then I need more than compassion.

Which is what I said. But half this sub is also bitter due to general societal expectations and how they are treated. For you, maybe this isn't important. For many, it is.

People don’t love getting hit on by people all the time, just FYI. Just because an attractive guy hits on you, doesn’t mean you’re giving him your number or even enjoying it at all.

I have been mildly successful with women even though I am not particularly tall, outgoing or handsome. I have even had several come to me. I think some of the guys here are projecting their negativity externally, ensuring that women will not find them attractive. I have been rejected plenty, but I never stopped trying, and never let it sour my attitude about myself or women. Yes, being physically attractive is an advantage. If you are not then you can still work on yourself. lt is not a lost cause, work on a positive attitude, physical fitness/appearance and becoming an interesting person. Think about what you want from a partner besides sex. Start from there and seek out activities where you can meet someone like that.

I'm a foreigner, normie. What is a redpiller?

As a side note, yeah. I'm pretty shy normally and my girlfriend actually came up to me saying she wanted to get with me and my previous girlfriend did the same.

Must be nice.

That wouldnt have happened if you lost the genetic lotery.

Facegame? As in my face is appealing? No. I'm pretty average.

So you just lucked out?

Er. No, I'd like to think not. My girlfriend likes the same things I like (video games, anime, art, etc) and we have a personality that clicked since I met her some six months before we started dating. If you mean I lucked out that I had what she wanted, then yeah. But not if you mean it was purely luck because... looks are just about the same thing.

Back to my question. What's a redpiller? I have no idea what that means.

So you lucked out. Do you really think everage looking anime gaming nerds get aproached frequently?

Try Google

Anime is a minor bit, if it helps. I guess the lucky bit is state of mind.

And yeah. I do. Plenty of my mates get approached or have girlfriends. My buddy Nick, probably the best friend I have, is an ugly bastard and big fan of artwork. So he tried to find a girl who really liked art and they hit it off.

The issue here, I believe, is that the focus is on sex. Sex is more like a benefit rather than the main goal. Otherwise you're no better than the r/niceguys

Girls almost never approach everage guys. I have a hard time believing you even though i wish it was true.

For you, maybe not. Different things happen to different people. I'm not trying to brag. I'm not trying to somehow say I'm in any way superior. I'm not, the only difference is that I have a girlfriend and you fine gents should be optimistic.

Don't be bitter, yeah? Optimism and similar interests. Hell, if anything, incels would love the concept of an LDR (my current relationship is an LDR). It's based on personality moreso than looks.

Im not really looking for a gf, im just trying to form an accurate model of the real world because i find that enjoyable. Im not bitter, im just an observer. So thanks for sharing your experiences i guess.

An accurate model of the real world should include all walks of life. Mine included. If it helps I'd give any proof but uh... you know. Not really a thing one can provide proof for.

I don't really get it, but it is some sort of distorted view about women by men. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/

Good lord o.o

This is the truth.

Approved.

I can confirm this.

Why are you complaining bro.

Facts. Most PUAs are scammers, "game" doesn't exist in reality. Nothing you say can make you attractive if you're unattractive.

A good example of this is one of my buddies back in highschool. He was white, tall & very facially attractive and at the same time very introverted and shy yet he had 3 gf's over the course of our 4 years in highschool.

Guess what? He didn't use any game to get them. They were the ones to approach him, they were the ones to initiate conversation, they were the ones to ask him out, he just had to exist and pussy came to him.

The PUAs are just salesmen trying to push a product they probably don't believe in. They know their market, it's basically dudes who can't get laid and they'll do just about anything so it's easy.

This is so so wrong and still, people here are eager to buy it. It's conforting to justify for personal failure.

Didn't you hear? It's so so wrong!

"Clearly it's wrong because an incel said it and all incels are big stupid meany heads!"

She will most likely let you know in some way but there are other things she may like in you besides face and body, you know. Like when you are in a group of friends or just hang out a lot in the same places, share hobbies (works well in high schools with extra-curriculars).

Normies will find a reason to deny this well thought out reasoning.

In highschool a girl I liked was into another guy. The other guy was not really into her, but she was hot... so whatever she wanted was gonna happen. It was inevitable. 5 years after graduation, they married.

Yes. I can't repeat and stress this enough. I've suspected it to be true for years (it certainly appeared true from the sidelines) and once I actually met someone, she really did make it easy and continues to do so to this day. Attraction isn't subtle.

I have an attractive friend who is also social. He tells me he never persues girs. They come to him, and want to know him. He was shy when we were both younger, but due to being approached so many times by so many girls he turned into a pretty confident and talkative guy.

Don't even have to be hot. You just have to be not ugly. If you ugly then sorry bro good fucking luck unless you lower your standards a fuck ton.

Absolute truth. No such thing as "not the right time" or "not ready for a relationship". She either wants you or hates you

Lol OP, this is pure bullshit. Let me tell you about someone I know. My friend was a 48 year old 5'2" Indian guy and he had trouble finding a woman who wanted to be with him. Do you think he just sat around and complained about it all day? Fuck no. He lifted, showered, and improved himself and now he's a tall handsome blonde 20 year old and can get any girl he wants.

It's over if you're sub8

Agreed. I've never had a woman express interest in me in my life.

If she really wants to date you, then it'll happen.

Yes. You don't really need "game" unless you're trying to snag models and strippers with fucked up psychological issues and desperate need for attention games.

In my experience if a normal woman likes you, she's very obvious about it. If you don't pick up on a hint, she throws you 4 more. If you're not getting anything from her, she's not interested.

if a normal woman likes you

Lol, what do the abnormal ones do then?

See above comment about strippers and other women with fucked up psychological issues. Some women get off on mind games.

fucked up psychological issues

And what do you consider these issues to be? If clinical depression is one of them. Do you really think a woman with clinical depression is playing mind games for shits and giggles when she gets hit on but all she really wants at that point is to work on recovery/languish/cease to exist?

Narcissism, BPD, Histrionic personality, other things. Some women get off on attention games.

They're not my type. I don't hit on them. I date the "normal" women who are straightforward.

Exactly. When she is attracted to you she will make an effort to make sure that you two go out. There is no way of convincing a female with your personality, either she likes what she sees or you will never be more than an orbiter

Literally exactly this. If you've never been asked out by a girl it's over. It was over from the moment you were born. Women are the selectors of mates in this day and age.

Asking women out is just a surefire way of socially ostracising yourself and being called a creep/stalker/rapist.

Remember. If you look bad and women know you fancy them they will hate you.

Of course. And if you try and go any further than that you end up on /r/niceguys. Rightfully so I guess.

So you just lucked out?

You need both personality and looks. Personality alone isn't fuckable.

Which is why you're lonely and bitter. But it's cool you can blame everyone else for your problems. Good job.

re: compassion, I just mean from society in general. A lot of guys on here are incredibly bitter, negative, and hateful. I'm sure that is because people have been awful to them. That's terrible.

And yes, we all need and want the romantic and physical love that comes with relationships. I can't imagine what it would be like to be deprived of that, and it's understandable that incels feel isolated, frustrated, and devalued by society. I hope we can work together as a society so that more people feel included and valued.